• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Cross Tier Trades

DeletedUser8593

Guest
I’ve been in several groups where some have problems with cross tier trades. I personally don’t have any, but many feel they are unfair. I guess 100 for 400 is seen as unfair by some but IMO the 100 are more valuable. Has anyone done a production analysis to see if there really is more production cost to the higher tier goods?
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Razor the 1st said:
Has anyone done a production analysis to see if there really is more production cost to the higher tier goods?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's about space needed to produce the goods.
For example once you include the culture, roads, supplies, and the population that it requires.
Your level 23 marble factory takes up 75.6 squares
Therefore your level 23 marble factory makes 143 marble per square
Your level 19 Crystal factory takes up 75.6 squares
Therefore your level 19 crystal factory makes 104 crystal per square
Your level 19 Gem factory takes up 75.6 squares
Therefore your level 19 Gem factory makes 56.6 Gems per square

So you are able to make
2.5x the marble in the same space as gems. Not 16x.
1.9x the crystal in the same space as gems. Not 4x
1.4x the marble in the same space as crystal. not 4x

We ran a few scenarios about a year ago, and the 5:2:1 ratio was close in most cases, but it does fluctuate a little because you rarely have all tiers of factories at the same level. Your specific ratio is close to 5:4:3 Also, the demand for all tiers of goods is not equal in all chapters e.g. tier 3 has no value in chapters 1&2.
All this makes it very hard to determine a fair exchange rate for cross-tier trades, so many players just avoid/ban them

You can see the "true" size of production buildings here https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/elvenar-efficiency-calculator.17073/
I used 9h+3h+9h productions for the above example, but it doesn't make a huge difference if you change it to 9h +3+3+3+3+3
 

DeletedUser4699

Guest
Another thought on cross-tier trading: (I won't be including sentient goods in this, although people are doing cross-tier trading in those now too and the 1,2,3 star trade system isn't quite right with those, either)
When some players engage in cross-tier trading, I have often times seen them produce exclusively only one tier of goods, namely 3rd tier. A player that isn't engaging in cross-tier trading will usually be producing all 3 tiers of their boosted goods. I know I would rather have someone in the fellowship who can contribute 3 types of goods to trading than someone who is only going to be contributing one type.
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Razor the 1st said:
Has anyone done a production analysis to see if there really is more production cost to the higher tier goods?
Click to expand...

Yes and the production cost increases are in line with the trading system, hence the basis for the stars. Player unhappiness with cross-tier trades are for other reasons:
  • Space/time as outlined by Soggyshorts
  • T3 producers only has highlighted by Bricabrac
  • People prefer to trade with-in tier, pretty straightforward that 10 :marble: = 10 :steel: = 10:plank:
  • People get upset when someone posts page upon page of cross-tier trades making it hard to navigate the trader and harder to balance their goods of the same tier
One thing to remember with cross tier trades that is often forgotten is poor humans in the early chapters need T3 goods for housing before they are able to produce T3 goods. Elves don't have this problem but it is not uncommon for a human at that level to put up some cross-tier trades. These trades however are usually small in size and trade up as opposed to down.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
Deborah M said:
I guess what totally turned me off on cross tier trades is that I have seen someone who sold off all of their T1 and relied on cross tier trades completely. That was a high level player so I felt like they were taking unfair advantage of others. I sincerely doubt that was the intent but it felt that way to me.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is, any player worth their salt will not need to ever take cross tier trades from such a person. Even much less so if they are posting at Inno rates of 16:4:1 instead of a fairer 5:2:1
 

DeletedUser3297

Guest
Offering less for more is a bad deal no matter what the goods traded are. I know production costs for tier 3 are higher than any other production cost, but so what? Coins and supplies are too easy to come by to justify that as an excuse to post a bad trade. My time is more valuable than coins and supplies in this game. I am not going to give you 2 days worth of tier one for your mere 3 hour production of tier 3
 
samidodamage

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
thedarkboo said:
then why don't we see the same amount of cross tier trades in the opposite direction
Click to expand...
When we had a FS member who was determined to convince us we needed to trade our T1 for his T3 at the trader's 2 star rate (only building T3's and using TM I & II), I told them to do just that: Take my T3 for T1 at 1:16 trades for one week and we'd discuss who came out on the better end of that deal at the end of that time. I even said I'd give them the T1 back at the end if they needed it if I ended up being right. They hemmed and hawed and left about a week later complaining they didn't get enough FS visits:rolleyes:
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Ha! exactly @samidodamage. I'm small potatoes compared to the top (barely in the top 300) But I bet not a single player in the top 10 could handle my trades at 16:1 for more than a week.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
OK. I'm struggling with the 5:2:1 ratio.. I'm a comparative newbie 23K points and I started a lengthy argument in my FS in favor of cross-tier trades at the 16:4:1 ratio. My argument was not based on the cost of production but on the fact that I place and accept 2 star trades or better and never seem to have a problem getting my trades accepted. I must admit that almost all my cross-tier trades are downward so apparently I have been taking advantage of the person accepting.
My struggle is that what ever happened to the argument that something is worth what a willing buyer and a willing seller say its worth? No one is forcing the other person to accept and as long as its 2 star I don't see how it's unfair.
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
“I take advantage of tourists all the time. I see them walking around my city, and I sell them crosswalk passes for $20. They usually don’t complain about having to buy them. Sometimes they even thank me, because no one ever told them about crosswalk passes!”

The problem is that newbie players wrongly assume that they can rely on the game to give perfect info. Here, 2 star trades are wrongly calibrated. Inno never fixed it, though.

You’re free to keep posting the trades, but your Archmage is free to kick you out for cluttering up the trader with your garbage trade offers.
 

tesstee

Member
thedarkboo said:
If cross trading was so good and balanced, then why don't we see the same amount of cross tier trades in the opposite direction.. 80K planks for 5k gems. I'd be more than happy to gobble them up.
Click to expand...


we do see these trades it is that it is so infrequent and when they are posted they get snatched up as soon as they are posted cause who dosent want to spend 5k of something and see that 80k come back.
 

tesstee

Member
K, sorry i have the real need here to poke this dead horse one more time and a last time for me just because i see this trade thing come up SOOOOOO much.
Bottom of the barrel if you don't like cross tier trades don't take them, if you see them and you really need what they are offering in trade but do not want to pay the higher number of lower tier goods , put up a even tier amount as a 1:1 and someone will take it, I do not see the 1:1 trades say up long even mine go quick enough just be patient you will get what you want.
 

juniperknome

Well-Known Member
my suggestion is to over produce tier 1 and two and trade up. i sent out very nice thank you note to those willing to trade tier one for 2 and three even at 10 to 1 or 12 to 1. now i am at halfling i can trade out few tier 1 and 2 but for anyone not in my alliance 10 or 12 to one is the standard or 3 to 1 for tier two. that is about what is expected
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
tesstee said:
Bottom of the barrel if you don't like cross tier trades don't take them, if you see them and you really need what they are offering in trade but do not want to pay the higher number of lower tier goods , put up a even tier amount as a 1:1 and someone will take it, I do not see the 1:1 trades say up long even mine go quick enough just be patient you will get what you want.
Click to expand...

That's all well and good, but your trader is usually 25% or more trades from your FS. So the other side of the coin is that players can't be upset/surprised if a Fellowship tells them to stop posting 16:1 cross-tier trades (trading down), or kicks them out because they do it too much.

Also don't be surprised when other players in your region take offense/get annoyed at your 16:1 cross-tier trades (and I say "your" not to imply that you are the one posting these trades, just generally), and not only ignore your 16:1 trades, but also your 1:1 same-tier trades. I know I've told some of my neighbors via in-game mail that I won't take a 16:1, but I'll take a 5:1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top