Cross Trades are nightmares for people!

[DeletedUser3312]

It has become the norm to post cross trades now. a love of cities have a couple of T1 and T2 factories and a bunch of T3 factories. It is such much easier to produce 5,000 T3 goods and trade it for 50,000 T1 goods and you don't have to put out any effort to have an awesome amount of goods in stock. Never mind the poor sucker that traded with you because they try to play the way the game was intended. I would love for Inno to change factories to . You must have 4 T1 factories to build a T2 Factory and 5 T1 factories and 2 T2 factories to build a T3 factory. and you can't sell lower Tier factories until you sell a higher level factory to keep the ratio in place. This would make people produce T1 goods on their own and not just put up 20 trades of 100 "dust" for 10,000 "steel" (this is what is cluttering up the trade window now days as people have decided that it's easier to just produce level 3 goods and trade them for what they need in all 3 tiers) I am about to give it up. Scrolling through 20 pages of crazy cross trades trying to find something that I need is over the top frustrating. and yeah I get the trader fee. This is way past the stupid trader fee. It has become the #1 way of posting trades. What started out as a way to help people occasionally help people get extra goods to finish a quest or help them with tournaments has morphed into people demanding to be taken care of by others.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

I have to agree it's even more awful now. For a couple of weeks now, I've been getting barely a page of same-tier trades on most days. The ones that are same-tier are usually from my FS or undiscovered cities. Those cities are ones I was working my way towards until the new battle system stopped me in my tracks. Trades now are so bad that it's gotten to the point where I don't look at offers first but names instead.

 

[DeletedUser2191]

I've been seeing this trend for close to 2 months now with my map location. It is getting completely out of hand. As for FS cross tier trading, I have made it known I don't like them, they accept that but I also have made it known that I will accept FS cross tier trades for quest purposes or if they are a newer city with a quest asking for something they cannot produce yet.

With regards to the world map, I will only accept if they are a discovered neighbour and I know they are newly growing and I can see it's something they are unable to produce due to not reaching that technology yet. Anyone else is out of luck for the most part.

One focus of this game is about balance, not just as a FS but as an individual also. With the way I manage my goods, I'm not concerned about not taking the cross tier trades, I'm not going to suffer as a result.

I agree that something needs to be done to eliminate this ability or make cross tier trading more appealing than it is now. Sure a filter would be nice to see but the bigger issue seems to be the ratio for trading.

If the players, even those who may have a million plus of every good bond together and stop accepting cross tier trades, this will eventually make those placing the trades think twice as they will be starving for the needed goods. I buy a lot of goods from the trader with excess coins and supplies, this also allows me to avoid those cross tier trades. If your eye balls are not floating in coins and supplies by the time you are in chapter 5 or 6, my opinion would be that a player is doing something wrong in running their city.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Same here and I see it on different worlds, especially the last 2 months its getting worse and worse.
Actually I dont mind crosstier trades but the actual output of the factories is not in line with a so-called fair trade.
The ratio of 16-4-1 is faulty.
If the value would be adapted to 9-3-1 its much closer to the actual output/square. That way, people wouldnt be tempted to place such trades, but even if they are done its a much fairer deal for the players who actually produce the tier 1 goods.

 

[DeletedUser1901]

I do not like all the cross tier trades but I have found that the filters that in place help me zero in on what I'm looking for just fine.

I refuse to take any cross tier unless it's to help one of my small fellowship members out. If no one would take them then perhaps people would stop posting them...

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'd rather they switch the 2 star ratio to 5:2:1 and add a 1 and zero star filter.
Cross tier trades could be a great feature, and I think most players wouldn't mind seeing them if they were actually fair.

I have a city right now that is posting a few cross tier trades, and it would really suck if no one could see them.
1,000 gems asking for 4,000 steel is actually pretty good
likewise a different city is posting
4,000 planks asking for 1,000 crystal which is also very good.

Filtering out cross tier trades will hide the bad trades, but will also kinda screw the people posting good trades.
Change the 2 star ratio and add a star filter instead.

 

[LavenderMeadows]

Ironically, my world neighbors whom I trade with the most, seem to prefer the cross trades over same tier trades.....I have many times posted trades such as 5000 silk for 5000 crystal or scrolls and have them sit in the trader for days, but let me change them to 1000 dust for 4000 crystal or scrolls, and SNAP they are taken in a flash. So while I too don't particularly care for them, as long as that is what my neighbors want, I will continue to do them.

 

[DeletedUser3686]

Try joining a fellowship with a fair trade rule in place, especially one for cross-tier trades. Especially look for one that needs your boosted goods too.

My FS doesn't have a cross tier rule, but so few post them that it's not an issue.

Have to say, as someone who posts cross tier trades on occasion (not usually, just when necessary), they don't always get snatched up as quickly as others, but they do eventually get taken. There are definitely some who find need for them.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

I'd rather they switch the 2 star ratio to 5:2:1 and add a 1 and zero star filter.
Cross tier trades could be a great feature, and I think most players wouldn't mind seeing them if they were actually fair.

Smiles Soggs... you love cross tier trades. you post them all the time. grins. but I know that taking them, trying to help people achieve the winter event thingies, destroyed my city. I had zero's in my Tier 1 goods. and I am still struggling to catch up so that I have more T1 goods than T3 goods. It is going to take a couple more weeks until I will have the same level of T2 1 goods as I do T2 goods. I sold off all but 16 of my T1 boosted factories. I had 23 trying to keep up production to help people. I was not able to finish the event as I ran out of goods smiles.. but I did not really care if I finished it or not. Cross tier trades was the reason I left our FS. It broke my heart as I loved being part of the FS but the trades were killing me and all my discovered neighbors are really tiny or members of our FS. So I struggled and finally decided to leave and find a FS with really high score players that had no problem taking my trades. No one speaks English, there is no chat, no nothing, but I have no problems with trades. So I am just at the end of the rope for playing the game. It is becoming frustrating and discouraging, and I feel alone.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Smiles Soggs... you love cross tier trades. you post them all the time

To be clear, on my Baby sized Beta account I was offered help, and got about 14k "free" tier 1 goods from my FS via cross tier trades for the event.
The cross tier trades that I post "all the time" on my live accounts are UP not down.
I'm asking for high tier, offering my planks/steel.

Accepting unlimited cross tier trades even within a FS wrecks not only your economy, but also the person you are "helping". Newer players may not have figured out the 5:2:1 ratio. You taking those trades instead of explaining it, or at least ignoring them makes them think it is normal to get 1600:100 so they don't build enough T1 factories to support themselves. Teach a man to fish....

Also, your Beta account left the FS about 4 hours after you first mentioned that the cross tier trades were wrecking your economy. Not much time to have the leaders fix things...

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Also, your Beta account left the FS about 4 hours after you first mentioned that the cross tier trades were wrecking your economy. Not much time to have the leaders fix things...

Smiles... I was one of the leaders. lol. And I had stated over and over that I do not mind helping with special events, etc. Sadly the trades became overwhelmingly skewed in favor of the trade offerer. As one of the leaders, I tried to pick up the trades to keep the FS board clear. It wiped me out. I felt that I was the only person that did not like cross trades and so the FS personality changed to one that no longer worked for me. And I did not mind helping you in the least Soggs. Would do it again lol. I knew you were working hard on helping put the event record together and needed a lot of goods. smiles. But you do support cross trades in your posts grins. And that means you like em. lol. Please know, I consider you a friend and any jabbing I do is in fun. smiles. Sorry to not have posted sooner, I'm not on the forum much anymore and just came on today to read about the tournament changes. I am the only one in my "fs" in 2 cities that is participating in the tournaments. lol. and the names of the FS members are people I don't recognize so need to find out what is going on. Take care.

 

[SoggyShorts]

you do support cross trades in your posts grins.

Oh yes, I very much support cross tier trades- at a 5:2:1 ratio. When you post that "Soggy likes cross tier trades" without context my concern is that people will assume I make them at the terrible 16:4:1 ratio, which would make me a monster.

 

[SoggyShorts]

We just implemented rules in our FS for cross-tier trades, thought I'd share them here

Summary:
The ratio listed in the trader of 16:4:1 is very unfair for the player that is giving up the lower Tier goods.
A more appropriate ratio is 5:2:1

Explanation:
Currently the trader marks Cross-tier Trades as being 2 star(fair) at a ratio of 16:4:1.
This is a flawed system as it only accounts for the supplies cost of running a factory.
What's missing from the ratio is the space and time required to produce/support those goods.

For example at all level 15 buildings in one day:
to make 10,000 steel you would need 920 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.
to make 2,500 silk you would need 409 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.
to make 625 gems you would need 211 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.

Under the 16:4:1 ratio these are all equal 2 star value, but clearly the steel city is needing far more space.
The ratio 920:409:211 can be rounded to 9:4:2 then, because you always unlock Tier 1 technology first we bump it up to 10:4:2 which is 5:2:1

Conclusion:
If you are going to post Cross-Tier Trades, you should only expect your fellows to take them if they are at the 5:2:1 ratio.
note: If you need help for an event, tournament, or if you are stuck in some way, we can still make unbalanced trades within the FS, so long as it is agreed to beforehand.

Examples of Fair Trades:

500 planks : 200 crystal : 100 gems

100 gems: 500 planks
100 crystal: 250 planks
100 gems: 200 crystal

 

[Deleted User - 1028897]

We just implemented rules in our FS for cross-tier trades, thought I'd share them here

Summary:
The ratio listed in the trader of 16:4:1 is very unfair for the player that is giving up the lower Tier goods.
A more appropriate ratio is 5:2:1

Explanation:
Currently the trader marks Cross-tier Trades as being 2 star(fair) at a ratio of 16:4:1.
This is a flawed system as it only accounts for the supplies cost of running a factory.
What's missing from the ratio is the space and time required to produce/support those goods.

For example at all level 15 buildings in one day:
to make 10,000 steel you would need 920 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.
to make 2,500 silk you would need 409 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.
to make 625 gems you would need 211 squares of space for all of the workshops, population, culture and steel makers.

Under the 16:4:1 ratio these are all equal 2 star value, but clearly the steel city is needing far more space.
The ratio 920:409:211 can be rounded to 9:4:2 then, because you always unlock Tier 1 technology first we bump it up to 10:4:2 which is 5:2:1

Conclusion:
If you are going to post Cross-Tier Trades, you should only expect your fellows to take them if they are at the 5:2:1 ratio.
note: If you need help for an event, tournament, or if you are stuck in some way, we can still make unbalanced trades within the FS, so long as it is agreed to beforehand.

Examples of Fair Trades:

500 planks : 200 crystal : 100 gems

100 gems: 500 planks
100 crystal: 250 planks
100 gems: 200 crystal

I like this a lot. My suggestion would be that all Fellowships that want to encourage a ratio like this should do the same.

Maybe it should be in the Fellowship message so everyone knows. It would plant the seed to even the newest person that maybe the trader stars are not so fair in some cases. I don't think many people use the forums but most people eventually look for a FS. They typically read "no drama" and "2 and 3 star trades" and "fun" on all of them. Why not something a little deeper?

So, I would encourage any Archmage to add on to your FS message. That will make it easier for your members to discuss the topic in a non-confrontational way AND spread the word to anyone who passes by.

 

[DeletedUser5100]

I agree that 16:1 is unfair for the player providing the T1 good. I also agree that there are more 16:1 trades out there. I think a 5:2:1 ratio would be an improvement. Alternatively, what would you say to a 4:2:1 ratio. See also my post on cross tier trades which is even more restrictve, suggesting a cross-tier trade ban!

 

[DeletedUser2870]

The 5:2:1 or 5:3:1 seem fair.
I wouldnt even mind an overall easier ratio of 9:3:1 and would be extremely happy if that was to become the new standard set by inno as a fair ratio

 

[DeletedUser6085]

I agree we need a better ratio. Forget the cost of manufacturing. The first tier goods are harder to come by than third tier goods. We had one member who sold his boosted steel manufactories and his boosted scrolls manufactories. He built extra magic dust and relied solely on that product to trade for both tier 1 and tier 2. Thank goodness he is no longer a part of our fellowship. I am sick of seeing such trades in the trader window. It is not fair to the new members who are desperate for goods and can not wait for their own trade to be accepted. The previous member's idea was that undiscovered neighbors must pay a price for trading with players. The undiscovered neighbor is not the only one being taken advantage of.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Quite so.
I would really, really like a filter to filter out all crosstrades. That way I wouldn't be so annoyed by them all the time since they make up over 60-70% of all trades I see.
I mean,I don't mind accepting some crosstrades from a FSmember, especially when someone is just getting to the tier2 or tier3 goods and needs more than they can produce themselves.
And I don't mind the crosstier tier1-tier2 or tier2-tier3 very much, though I don't take those generally speaking, unless they offer a good ratio, but the sheer number of trades offering tier3 and wanting tier1 goods is staggering and incredibly annoying.

 

[Buttrflwr]

OK, I have kept my peace on this, but now am weighing in. I place cross tier trades, but I do it at 1:4 on t3:T1 and 1:2 on t2:t1. I only do it in an emergency, and I have TEN fully upgraded t1 factories. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. I do agree that @innogames didn't factor all things in when making the 1:16 ratio on trades, and that should be fixed, but not all cross tier traders are out to manipulate that.

 

[joboxo]

Summary:
The ratio listed in the trader of 16:4:1 is very unfair for the player that is giving up the lower Tier goods.
A more appropriate ratio is 5:2:1

This is brilliant. I love this idea, SoggyShorts!

I wish the moderator would add another poll question to this thread to capture this idea. I completely agree that the current ratios for 2 star trades are unfair when trading across tiers.