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Your Elvenar Team
"Do you really want to decline the quest? This cannot be reversed"
- Thread starter Devman
- Start date
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Nope. Not at all what I mean. What I mean is people who try to move on after offering one last little poke, such as "It really doesn't matter" and "If you're seriously concerned" , then "but we're getting off topic." Which reads to me as "I'm just going to make these final points about why I'm right, then we should all stop talking about it."
Devman
Active Member
Opinions are not always pokes , sometimes there just ... opinions .
Like .. this one , it is my opinion that you are being intentionally argumentative . right or wrong ... it is my perception of your last couple of post .
What your actual intent was , is uncertain . Sorry if that seems offensive , it is not my intent .
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@Bobbykitty
What is going on? You seem very sensitive in a few threads now. Taking things very personally. Is something wrong?
@Devman was the one who started this thread, and even though he and I have been on opposite "sides" of the issue from the start I find we are still getting along just fine. I respect his position, and feel he at least understands where I'm coming from. Early in the discussion I used some poor wording that was taken personally, after which I apologized and tried to clarify. As far as I could tell we're all good.
What I'm not enjoying is feeling exasperated when I explain how things are viewed from my perspective a couple different ways and you(bobby) post
"I can't imagine why anyone would come here to attack(this idea)" Unless you've put me on ignore?
What is going on? You seem very sensitive in a few threads now. Taking things very personally. Is something wrong?
@Devman was the one who started this thread, and even though he and I have been on opposite "sides" of the issue from the start I find we are still getting along just fine. I respect his position, and feel he at least understands where I'm coming from. Early in the discussion I used some poor wording that was taken personally, after which I apologized and tried to clarify. As far as I could tell we're all good.
What I'm not enjoying is feeling exasperated when I explain how things are viewed from my perspective a couple different ways and you(bobby) post
"I can't imagine why anyone would come here to attack(this idea)" Unless you've put me on ignore?
WolfSinger
Well-Known Member
Actually, in my opinion coming in here and posting all kinds of reasons why the looping quests and the quest system need to be revamped is in a way attacking the idea posted here.
THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.
I agree that changes probably need to be made to the questing system. But, that has NOTHING to do with giving us a way to turn off that annoying pop-up when you decline a quest. Now, to be clear - as long as we have the looping quests - there needs to a CLEAR distinction between declining a looping quest and declining an optional quest that WILL NOT loop. I would propose doing away with that annoying pop-up on the looping quests entirely and leaving it on the optional NON-looping quests (and not having a way to turn it off). Of course that probably take a LOT more programming to accomplish properly.
Adding a way to turn off the annoying pop-up (again in my opinion) does nothing to change the fact there are issues (that have been brought up here) with the quest system. -- Address those in a separate thread. This thread is solely about the annoying pop-up.
I personally don't use the looping quest that much, occasionally, if I get low on coins because of upgrading, I might catch the ones for producing 8 bread or collecting xx amount of supplies. If I really wanted to I could collect those every hour. I might (if I think about it) hit those twice in a day. Heck I go weeks without even thinking about those looping quests. But, because it is annoying those few times I do hit them - I voted for the idea
THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.
I agree that changes probably need to be made to the questing system. But, that has NOTHING to do with giving us a way to turn off that annoying pop-up when you decline a quest. Now, to be clear - as long as we have the looping quests - there needs to a CLEAR distinction between declining a looping quest and declining an optional quest that WILL NOT loop. I would propose doing away with that annoying pop-up on the looping quests entirely and leaving it on the optional NON-looping quests (and not having a way to turn it off). Of course that probably take a LOT more programming to accomplish properly.
Adding a way to turn off the annoying pop-up (again in my opinion) does nothing to change the fact there are issues (that have been brought up here) with the quest system. -- Address those in a separate thread. This thread is solely about the annoying pop-up.
I personally don't use the looping quest that much, occasionally, if I get low on coins because of upgrading, I might catch the ones for producing 8 bread or collecting xx amount of supplies. If I really wanted to I could collect those every hour. I might (if I think about it) hit those twice in a day. Heck I go weeks without even thinking about those looping quests. But, because it is annoying those few times I do hit them - I voted for the idea
DeletedUser5800
Guest
At this point I'm beginning to hope they change it just to see if in two years someone post the suggestion to have a message to confirm because they keep skipping one to far and having to go all the way back around.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I disagree. As I have said in at least 3 different ways now, they are very much linked.
If cycling quests becomes even better by making it take half as many clicks, even more players will come to rely on it. If more players rely on it, then the costs in the next chapter that is released will have to go up to still provide a challenge. This will essentially force all players to loop the quests or have their city crippled by needing twice as many workshops.
Right now some players use the looping quests to double their supply output(or more), and the developers can mostly ignore it.
If this changes to most players using the quests to double their supplies then the developer would logically increase the supply cost of everything in future content in order to try and not have those costs trivialized.
WolfSinger
Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts - we will have to agree to disagree here.
I understand what you are concerned about - but to be honest I don't think it makes that much of a difference all things considered.
I understand what you are concerned about - but to be honest I don't think it makes that much of a difference all things considered.
DeletedUser61
Guest
But it's equally valid that several players will look at the upcoming quests, and decide to crack open the current quest, rather than giving up. I suspect that InnoGames rather approves of the pre-planning efforts, so long as they don't have to provide the information themselves
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Wait, so you're telling me I'm not breaking the system... I'm working for the man? My whole life is a lie....
DeletedUser61
Guest
My thing is to pull the guts out of the algorithm. I've gone to some considerable effort to reverse engineer stuff like how the boosts are determined and how immigrants are distributed. To me that's the whole point of playing a city builder.
Ideally, once you point out the CONSEQUENCES of a design decision, the Developers may well agree that THAT'S not what they had in mind. I suspect that the developers are surprised, more often than not, by how the user community responds to new material and to revamps.
Some people seem to go on crusades just for the exercise, apparently, but most of the folks in the forums are more concerned about what's good for the game, rather than fuming that the developers are taking away their candy, even though it's making them sick.
Ideally, once you point out the CONSEQUENCES of a design decision, the Developers may well agree that THAT'S not what they had in mind. I suspect that the developers are surprised, more often than not, by how the user community responds to new material and to revamps.
Some people seem to go on crusades just for the exercise, apparently, but most of the folks in the forums are more concerned about what's good for the game, rather than fuming that the developers are taking away their candy, even though it's making them sick.
Devman
Active Member
Absolutely friend , I have much respect for you , your insight and opinions . You are well versed in the mechanics of this game and offer a wealth of knowledge and information that is unmatched .
lol .... And this guy , seriously , This is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back . A unique twist on every topic with just the right amount of sarcastic wit that demands a skillful retort .
As I have said before , I carry under my belt many years of gaming community experience . Few have matched the passion and integrity I have found here . I like people who challenge my intellect . A forum filled with derps is really no fun .
With that said , I hope we can all agree , this is just a game, a unique game that seems to .... for some reason give each of us at least a little pleasure playing it . We all have different ideas on how it could be improved , and in my opinion no one persons idea is wrong , its right for that person . Some folks have different ways of expressing their opinions , sometimes it may be in a way that the reader is not used to , or comfortable with, that's ok , its these differences that makes a gaming community thrive .
I have talked with Bobbykitty , and it is my understanding that the prevalent tones are simply that of frustration . This particular thread was intended to address an issue that was seemingly minute , but became much larger than was expected . I do understand the frustration , but would prefer to look beyond harsh words to focus on the common goal , improving this simple little game that we all enjoy .
You guys have a diverse community with some really smart people here .
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Devman
Active Member
Here I'm really forced to disagree with you.
Derps For the WIN!
oh my , is that your FS ? I suppose a few Derps are not so bad .... LoL
DeletedUser5800
Guest
Awww, that's the nicest thing anybody has ever said about me.
I sometimes forget I'm not in a frat house and everyone isn't in on the joke. That said I have actually learned more about the issue of looping and I do have a way more sympathetic view than when this began, if that's a victory than it is well deserved because I'm pretty sure I made it way more difficult than it had to be and whereas I'm not prepared to change my position, I am at least more prepared to accept the alternative. I have moved firmly from 'DOOOM!' to 'not how I would have done it but whatever'. DeletedUser5827
Guest
Well, I have 2 words. Windows 10. It sometimes clicks when I don't want it to, so I appreciate the safeguard because sometimes my computer makes decisions for me that I don't agree with.
DeletedUser1987
Guest
I have 12 workshops, don't cycle quests, and have sufficient supplies for my city's purposes. So far the devs' response to players' not wanting to rely on the looping quests (build a magic academy) are completely unappealing to me.
Aggressive ranking hunter me really, really, REALLY is uncomfortable with the idea of building a building that can't be deleted, uses an extremely limited quantity item to produce things, and does nothing for your ranking if you run out of the limited quantity item. The devs' recent changes to the battle system which make winning provinces impossible if you're too far out on the world map just make me more uncomfortable. So if it isn't x relic tournament week and I need x relic to make y spell I am sunk because I can't win that relic from provinces because the devs think I've gone too far? To me, that possibility is absolutely terrifying, and is the big reason why I'm never going to build the magic academy. So that solution is very unsettling.
The solution of magic workshops also makes me uncomfortable. Part of the challenge of this game is balancing supplies with population and space, and having to decide between premium buildings which give extra population and take less space but don't give coins and residences which take up more space but give coins. Magic workshops and residences, combined with the wood elf premium culture buildings.... I dunno, it just seems like Inno is removing all challenge from it. There is no downside to buying all premium buildings to get your population, culture, and supplies in wood elves. Doing that, while simultaneously saying the people who are pushing out farther on the world map and who are building more manufactories than the devs want are bypassing the challenge the devs want is.... hypocritical, to me. If the devs want all players to solve puzzles, they shouldn't make it so that premium players have no puzzles.
Increasing the supplies per workshop would be the best solution to this problem. Increasing space allowed so players can simply build more workshops is also a solution if devs don't want to change how many supplies the workshops give.
I would be happy if the repeating questline was replaced with a similar repeating questline that takes longer to complete than the current one, and offers goods and broken shards as rewards. Or items to upgrade event buildings to your current chapter. Or even which awards relics, since the devs seem so determined to cut our regular supplies of relics while giving us so many things we need to spend them on.
Aggressive ranking hunter me really, really, REALLY is uncomfortable with the idea of building a building that can't be deleted, uses an extremely limited quantity item to produce things, and does nothing for your ranking if you run out of the limited quantity item. The devs' recent changes to the battle system which make winning provinces impossible if you're too far out on the world map just make me more uncomfortable. So if it isn't x relic tournament week and I need x relic to make y spell I am sunk because I can't win that relic from provinces because the devs think I've gone too far? To me, that possibility is absolutely terrifying, and is the big reason why I'm never going to build the magic academy. So that solution is very unsettling.
The solution of magic workshops also makes me uncomfortable. Part of the challenge of this game is balancing supplies with population and space, and having to decide between premium buildings which give extra population and take less space but don't give coins and residences which take up more space but give coins. Magic workshops and residences, combined with the wood elf premium culture buildings.... I dunno, it just seems like Inno is removing all challenge from it. There is no downside to buying all premium buildings to get your population, culture, and supplies in wood elves. Doing that, while simultaneously saying the people who are pushing out farther on the world map and who are building more manufactories than the devs want are bypassing the challenge the devs want is.... hypocritical, to me. If the devs want all players to solve puzzles, they shouldn't make it so that premium players have no puzzles.
Increasing the supplies per workshop would be the best solution to this problem. Increasing space allowed so players can simply build more workshops is also a solution if devs don't want to change how many supplies the workshops give.
I would be happy if the repeating questline was replaced with a similar repeating questline that takes longer to complete than the current one, and offers goods and broken shards as rewards. Or items to upgrade event buildings to your current chapter. Or even which awards relics, since the devs seem so determined to cut our regular supplies of relics while giving us so many things we need to spend them on.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
DeletedUser1987
Guest
Only the first three levels, and only to get rune shards. The changes they've made to combat, basing tournament difficulty on how far out on the map you are, has made it impossible for me to win through fighting, and I don't have the goods to negotiate any farther. I have six planks manufactories, four scrolls manufactories, one crystal manufactory (because elven crystal manufactories are the best. You cannot argue with this) and four dust manufactories, but I'm still struggling to make enough tier 2 goods for negotiating more than three tournament levels. So instead I'm investing more effort into getting rune shards to build wonders, and getting my city ranking points up, and ignoring the tournament ranking system.
I might be aggressive about ranking points, but even in WoW which is my main game I don't bother with getting all the achievements, because some of them to me take more time and effort than I feel rewarded by the status of getting them. The tournaments are like that for me. There's just no incentive, with neighbors just not participating, to try pushing for the best prizes myself, plus there's the whole every sixteen hours and I don't want to wake up at stupidly early in the morning or stay up until dumb time at night just for ranking points which don't apply to my city ranking.
If I'm going to invest that much effort and sleep schedule disruption into something I am GOING to farm the Time Lost Proto Drake or Poseidus. NOT random tournament stuff.
I might be aggressive about ranking points, but even in WoW which is my main game I don't bother with getting all the achievements, because some of them to me take more time and effort than I feel rewarded by the status of getting them. The tournaments are like that for me. There's just no incentive, with neighbors just not participating, to try pushing for the best prizes myself, plus there's the whole every sixteen hours and I don't want to wake up at stupidly early in the morning or stay up until dumb time at night just for ranking points which don't apply to my city ranking.
If I'm going to invest that much effort and sleep schedule disruption into something I am GOING to farm the Time Lost Proto Drake or Poseidus. NOT random tournament stuff.