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Your Elvenar Team
Dreaming about an expiring negotiation boost building
- Thread starter Alram
- Start date
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
Curious; what do you envision for this? A % reduction in negotiating costs? Or something that limits the available options the game could select for negotiating (so, no asking for mana, orcs, seeds or sentients)?
Not arguing against the idea, just trying to keep the discussion going.
Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
Negotiations will never get as close as fighting.
There is not limit on how much units you can own, but there is a limit on how much coins and supplies you can own.
Even with a reducer eventually the cost for a single negotiation rise higher than the coin/supply cap.
Laast but not least a reducer is difficult to implement, imangine stacking those to 0 costs?
No matter how much combat boost you place, you can never get to a 0 cost model. and since unit armies become bigger and bigger even the tiniest loss becomes huge.
This is why 1 could work and the other not.
What I could imagine is a wonder than reduces costs of spire / tournament negotiations.
This because you can limit the effect to reasonable levels.
There is not limit on how much units you can own, but there is a limit on how much coins and supplies you can own.
Even with a reducer eventually the cost for a single negotiation rise higher than the coin/supply cap.
Laast but not least a reducer is difficult to implement, imangine stacking those to 0 costs?
No matter how much combat boost you place, you can never get to a 0 cost model. and since unit armies become bigger and bigger even the tiniest loss becomes huge.
This is why 1 could work and the other not.
What I could imagine is a wonder than reduces costs of spire / tournament negotiations.
This because you can limit the effect to reasonable levels.
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
UUU and DA both increase troops' health so they can take more damage.
MMM and ELR increase the attack on mages and light range, respectively, so they do more damage with each attack.
There are no expiring buildings specifically targeting light melee, or either of the heavy troop types (you have to get that from a wonder)
MMM and ELR increase the attack on mages and light range, respectively, so they do more damage with each attack.
There are no expiring buildings specifically targeting light melee, or either of the heavy troop types (you have to get that from a wonder)
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
But it can be brought closer.
Same as military, just use diminishing returns
If a Silver Tongue building(TM) reduces negotiation costs by 5% down to 95% then the next one placed reduces 95% by 5% to 90.25% etc.
This way even placing 20 buildings only reduces costs by 65%
30 buildings to 21%
40 buildings to 12.8%
etc
Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
Guess they do not wat to do that, I mean they just had a mayor overhaul and it's still just as bad, I would say even way worse than in the past.
The past negotiation had a lot less caviats and was much easier overall.
With massive amounts of orcs (in the past limited) coins and supplies (in the past none beyond chapter 4/5) and mana (never asked before)
Negotiations has become a lot more difficult especially past the first 10 provinces.
UUU DA are the melee boosters.
Attack boosts are near useless on melee units and they almost never strike first.
An attack bonus on a crippled units ain't that great.
HP boosts keep the units more alive, this is more effective than any attack boost because living units can strike back. which is a mayor attack boost on it's own.
Off course HP boosts also work on ranged units.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
You are saying that UUU and DA are somehow targeted at melee? I agree that they will boost melee, but only because they apply additional health to all troops.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Other than all of the non-craftable ones that aren't pure KP
E.G. Genie gives supplies, mana, etc
Ferris wheel for coins&supplies
Goddess of disappointment for goods, coins, supplies
Alram
Flippers just flip
Oooohf! Talking to me about a Genie is just hitting below the belt.Other than all of the non-craftable ones that aren't pure KP
E.G. Genie gives supplies, mana, etc
Ferris wheel for coins&supplies
Goddess of disappointment for goods, coins, supplies
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
Sooooo true!
And the goddess of inadequacy....
And while they do give prizes, it isn't predictable (except the ferris wheel, where you can set production). With the craftable expiring buildings, you know exactly what you are going to get.
Kawhi is a Raptor
Active Member
goddess gave me 35 diamonds the other day i am living large
Alram
Flippers just flip
Do these buildings benefit fighters or negotiators or both?Other than all of the non-craftable ones that aren't pure KP
E.G. Genie gives supplies, mana, etc
Ferris wheel for coins&supplies
Goddess of disappointment for goods, coins, supplies
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Nothing at all, because the earliest a new AW could be added to the game is chapter 18 or later. And by then it would be meaningless to all but a few specialized players.
Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
Goods do not benefit a fighter
But with the exorbitant costs that do not scale not really a negotiator either. it's just too expensive.
I mean 26M coins for a single negotiation, how should that compare?
Even if you slash it trough half it's still too expensive.
110K orcs even if you slash that trough half it's still to expensive.
This is why for good scores fighting is the only option.
That does not mean I would not support a wonder that slashes costs in half.
It would still be interesting enough for me at least, but like timwarp it would come way too late in game it would like in chapter 20 or so.
That would work but hard to explain,
Military does not work that way.
3 DA add +150% HP not 50+25+12.5= 87.5%
Maybe your mistaken with back in the day a change they made:
First you could be immune to attacks by having 75% DR and 30% debuff = 105% immunity
Then they multiplied it so you could never have 100% DR 0.25*0.7 = 0.175 = 82.5% DR
Now they use innomath so that a 30% debuff on lets say a pro ranger means he losses 57% of his mage defence.
It would be really hard to explain to people that everything in the game seems to stack except negotiation debuffs,
I can imagine the thousands of complaint not just on forum but also at support where they would have to deal with.
To much headache.
Yes and no,
HP boost is the only effective boost for melee units,
Attack boost have little to no effect for melee units, so even if these buildings existed the would be near useless.
It;s somewhat the other way around for ranged units
Attack bonus makes them shine, the more they have the more they shine.
HP booster do have much more effect then attack booster would have for melee units, but HP in beneficial not what makes them really strong.
the issue is that there is no other "good" melee booster possible. it would be a melee only HP booster or maybe 2-3 extra move range and 4 extra initiative. to make them viable.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Military also has diminishing returns even though they are done differently.
1 DA gives 50% more
Now your HP is 150
Adding a second DA gives 50 more for 200
That is only a 33% increase over 150
Adding a third DA gives 50 more for 250
That is only a 25% increase over 200
etc.