Elvarian Carnival event discussion thread

[SoggyShorts]

I'm not sure every player sees it that way. I think people often approach buildings in terms of "I'm short on pop... how can I best solve that problem?"

I totally get that, what my point is that by always going for the best building all the time you should have fewer "I'm short on _____" moments in general.

it's kind of ugly

I don't see how you can say it's ugly...don't all event buildings look the same?

 

[Kekune]

I don't see how you can say it's ugly...don't all event buildings look the same?

This statement feels like a window into your mind.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This statement feels like a window into your mind.

Right? LoL
Seriously though the ONE time I remember that ranking is something people care about, I get called out for not remembering the thing that actually drew most of the playerbase into this game.
If I ever remember graphics and score at the same time the world might just end

 

[DeletedUser27062]

I'll take a shot
TL;DR:
The Sleigh has a total value of 27.3 tiles in your city PLUS 3 KP per day
That's 152% efficiency in your city. If it were me, I'd give it a big fat "yes"

Note: this doesn't count the coin production of the sleigh which at 97k per day is more than a residence can make.

Spoiler: The Math

Your L15 residences give 560 pop in 13.5 squares = 41.5 pop per square
Your winter shrines give you 480 culture in 4 squares = 120 per square

Your L15 steel requires 939 pop = 22.6 tiles of pop
Your L15 steel requires 201 culture = 1.7 sq of culture
Your L15 steel has a footprint of 42.3 squares (16+2 roads+22.6 for pop+ 1.7 culture)
Running at 5hx3 +9hx1 with max relics but no MM your steel makes 8,000 per day or 189 per tile per day

Your L15 scroll requires 1085 pop = 26.1 tiles of pop
Your L15 scroll requires 190 culture = 1.6 sq of culture
Your L15 scroll has a footprint of 41.2 squares (12+1.5 roads+26.1 for pop+1.6 sq of culture)
Running at 5hx3 +9hx1 with max relics but no MM your scroll makes 6,000 per day or 146 per tile per day

The Sleigh makes
1.6K steel per day, a rough value of 8.5 steel factory tiles
1.5 silk per day, a rough value of 10.3 scroll factory tiles
208 pop a value of 5 tiles
416 culture a value of 3.5 tiles

Nicely done! I'm wondering why you base your calculations on maximum potential outputs of manufactories rather than production rates? Wouldn't it be more accurate to use figures from 3 hourly production cycles (which would also represent maximum potential outputs)? Can you recalculate to compare values per 3 hours instead of 1 day?

To make a claim of efficiency the building must be able to make better use of resources to produce any given output. If I can't replace something with this building then it is not efficient as it would require additional resources to place it (namely space). Given we are limited to one event building we can't utilise any production efficiencies. However, I could replace another event building if calculations prove this new one is more efficient than the existing one I have placed.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Nicely done! I'm wondering why you base your calculations on maximum potential outputs of manufactories rather than production rates? Wouldn't it be more accurate to use figures from 3 hourly production cycles (which would also represent maximum potential outputs)? Can you recalculate to compare values per 3 hours instead of 1 day?

To make a claim of efficiency the building must be able to make better use of resources to produce any given output. If I can't replace something with this building then it is not efficient as it would require additional resources to place it (namely space). Given we are limited to one event building we can't utilise any production efficiencies. However, I could replace another event building if calculations prove this new one is more efficient than the existing one I have placed.

I thought he did? In the numbers for your steel and silk, he bases it on doing 5 3-hour productions and 1 9-hour production. He did not use the 24-hour production amount at all.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'm wondering why you base your calculations on maximum potential outputs of manufactories rather than production rates?

My hypothesis was that the EBS was better than regular buildings, so I give regular buildings maximum output in order to favor the "other side"

Wouldn't it be more accurate to use figures from 3 hourly production cycles

Changing it to 8x3h just ups the production by 10% but I find 5x3h +9h is the max for a factory for the majority of schedules.

To make a claim of efficiency the building must be able to make better use of resources to produce any given output. If I can't replace something with this building then it is not efficient as it would require additional resources to place it (namely space). Given we are limited to one event building we can't utilise any production efficiencies.

This is where I and some forum posters part ways.
Look at your own city as an example:
Can you replace one of your L15 steel with the sleigh? No, but that only matters if your city requires exactly 47,620 steel every day, and what are the chances of that? And the chances that this number won't change?
Your city needs pop.
Your city needs culture.
Your city needs goods.
Sure, you can use all 1300 squares of single-purpose buildings to get the numbers you have, but why not use a mix of various hybrid buildings as they become available to either make even more in the same space or to free up space?

As long as your city is able to meet your current needs when you add a new super-efficient hybrid building your power and efficiency will go up.
Sometimes you'll spike in pop efficiency, sometimes a certain tier of goods, whatever, but as long as you are open to hybrids and work around the changes a little bit your overall city will have superior output.

However, I could replace another event building if calculations prove this new one is more efficient than the existing one I have placed.

I hear this a lot. IMO many players are against hybrids with the misconception that they are too hard to replace.
Firstly the addition of RRs to the game allows a player like yourself to upgrade a 4x4 building every week which takes a lot of pressure off of replacing it, and secondly, you are growing. Hybrid buildings are so much better per square that you don't need to replace them, just keep adding.
I still have my 2016 winter set. I still have every evo building I ever placed and they will almost certainly never be removed.
And finally, it seems to me based on the past 15 events that inno is quite fond of giving out hybrid buildings...much more so than powerful single-purpose ones, so if you can't fight em...

 

[Fayeanne]

The only reason not to place a Sleigh (in the chapters I have tested) is score.

Technically that's not the only reason. (Even putting aside the appearance issue mentioned later.)

One other might be if you don't manage to gather enough Artifacts to fully evolve it. I assume the math is assuming a level 10 building. How does it compare if you only have, say, 5 Artifacts for it?

Second, in my city, it makes Scrolls. Seriously, STOP GIVING US SCROLLS! I don't need any more! Just stop!

Third would be the fact that you can't clear events that ask for specific productions using event buildings. I once got rid of all of my T3 buildings because I didn't need any T3 (I was getting way more than I ever needed from event buildings). But then I had to put one back because a quest asked for a specific production. To give a more specific example, if the quest asks for you to make a Marble Mosaic, you can't complete that if all of your T1 is being supplied by event buildings.

Finally, if you had invested in certain Wonders like the Mountain Halls, will event building productions gain the same benefits? I haven't done the math as to whether a Mountain Halls and etc. will outweigh the Sleigh.

(Having said all that, I'm not trying to convince anyone here not to build it. I don't think it's a bad option. Except that, personally, I'm avoiding it because it makes Scrolls. But that's kind of a side issue...)

 

[DeletedUser27062]

My hypothesis was that the EBS was better than regular buildings, so I give regular buildings maximum output in order to favor the "other side"

Changing it to 8x3h just ups the production by 10% but I find 5x3h +9h is the max for a factory for the majority of schedules.

This is where I and some forum posters part ways.
Look at your own city as an example:
Can you replace one of your L15 steel with the sleigh? No, but that only matters if your city requires exactly 47,620 steel every day, and what are the chances of that? And the chances that this number won't change?
Your city needs pop.
Your city needs culture.
Your city needs goods.
Sure, you can use all 1300 squares of single-purpose buildings to get the numbers you have, but why not use a mix of various hybrid buildings as they become available to either make even more in the same space or to free up space?

As long as your city is able to meet your current needs when you add a new super-efficient hybrid building your power and efficiency will go up.
Sometimes you'll spike in pop efficiency, sometimes a certain tier of goods, whatever, but as long as you are open to hybrids and work around the changes a little bit your overall city will have superior output.

I hear this a lot. IMO many players are against hybrids with the misconception that they are too hard to replace.
Firstly the addition of RRs to the game allows a player like yourself to upgrade a 4x4 building every week which takes a lot of pressure off of replacing it, and secondly, you are growing. Hybrid buildings are so much better per square that you don't need to replace them, just keep adding.
I still have my 2016 winter set. I still have every evo building I ever placed and they will almost certainly never be removed.
And finally, it seems to me based on the past 15 events that inno is quite fond of giving out hybrid buildings...much more so than powerful single-purpose ones, so if you can't fight em...

These are all great points. I don't disagree with any of it really except that I don't consider this event building to be "highly efficient" because I'm limited to only one. I like hybrid buildings and have many of them. I just expect them to earn their keep is all. My moonstone libraries (4) earn their keep and have allowed me to reduce the number of T2 manufactories I require, freeing up thousands in pop, saving loads of culture. That, to me, is a highly efficient hybrid building.

These last couple of months I've revisited how I've grown my cities, where I went wrong and how best to remedy those errors. To that end I've decided to halt all tech advances and focus my energy on getting my cities lean and mean. I'm weeding out inefficiencies, streamlining production and generally getting to know what works best for me.

The problem is I can't undo many of my screw ups and as a fighter I'm paying a steep price for them. Those premium expansions I bought to build a pretty city are biting me in the ass now so I need to be frugal AF when it comes to space now. I understand that your city might be able to accommodate an event zoo but mine can't, not yet at least. Laying down another expansion to house an "add-on" building that offers no real efficiency just isn't a smart move for me.

 

[Moho]

Great discussion, but I think a picture is necessary now and then, if only to demonstrate that not all event buildings look the same actually:

 

[SoggyShorts]

However, I could replace another event building if calculations prove this new one is more efficient than the existing one I have placed.

One other might be if you don't manage to gather enough Artifacts to fully evolve it. I assume the math is assuming a level 10 building. How does it compare if you only have, say, 5 Artifacts for it?

Oh absolutely. Honestly, it's the 3 KP that put it over the top. 150% efficiency is great but adding in all of the event buildings that give KP makes a massive long-term difference. I think I'm getting 19 per day in one city having missed a year of prizes and by summer I expect to be making more KP from buildings than hourly.

For some additional math counting the KP, I guess we could use carting libraries as a base? 1 KP per day in 2.5 sq? so 7.5sq value? Over 190% efficiency then.

in my city, it makes Scrolls.

Yeah, that's lame. I'm not sure how to factor that in, I guess it depends on what ratios you are able to dump scrolls at.
I buy up all of the scrolls from my fellows at 1:1 and swap them on the map for a 10% discount without issue so the efficiency of the EBS would drop to 146%, or 187% counting the KP for me. for every 10% discount, you have to give when selling scrolls the efficiency should drop about 3%
If you assign scrolls a value of zero the EBS is still worth 17 squares plus the KP for about 136% efficiency.

Third would be the fact that you can't clear events that ask for specific productions using event buildings. I once got rid of all of my T3 buildings because I didn't need any T3 (I was getting way more than I ever needed from event buildings). But then I had to put one back because a quest asked for a specific production. To give a more specific example, if the quest asks for you to make a Marble Mosaic, you can't complete that if all of your T1 is being supplied by event buildings.

Good points, but as is
1. the EBS can't replace all of anything, and
2. the events no longer ask for specific productions so a single level 1 factory of any kind can easily satisfy any quest.
3. Since the EBS has a value of close to 36 squares with a footprint of 18 squares that's enough saved space for 7 level 1 factories that you can use to complete event quests.

Finally, if you had invested in certain Wonders like the Mountain Halls, will event building productions gain the same benefits? I haven't done the math as to whether a Mountain Halls and etc. will outweigh the Sleigh.

At level 35 the MtH gives a 284% boost added to the 800% max relic production, an increase of 35%.
Since the goods From EBS account for 54% of the EBS, the value drops to about 115% or 157% counting the KP. Still worth it, but only barely.
A chapter 5 city like @Eudaemonia 's is still quite a ways from even building a MtHall, and 6 chapters away from unlocking the seeds needed to upgrade past level 30, so I don't think it's too much of a concern.
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
It's funny, the goods production is everyone's focus for the EBS, but if it gives
4 squares of culture,
4.5 squares of pop,
7.5 squares of KP
1 square of coins (I have no idea what value to assign 90K coins in chapter 5, but 1 seems fair.)
---
17 squares before counting the production at all.

So to rephrase the question:
Can the goods produced replace one of my factories?
Are the goods produced worth more than one square to me?

 

[Arkadia]

@BQwer & @CrusaderMichael
It is important to note that those daily quests stack up, and you aren't missing anything as long as you get to them before the event is over.
E.G. you can still get the max if you do the first set in 1 day or in 20

This does not seem to be true in this event.
I supposed to get the next quest unlock yesterday, but i took my time and didn't complete the quest i was on til this morning, and when i did, the next quest did not unlock.
If this happens, we won't be able to complete all quests.
I did submit a ticket, and hope this is a bug that will be fixed.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This does not seem to be true in this event.

When you mouse over your milestone progress bar, what does it show?

If it shows 57/74 as in the above image and your next quest is locked for 4.5 hours then you are on track and there is no bug

 

[Arkadia]

When you mouse over your milestone progress bar, what does it show?
View attachment 9159
If it shows 57/74 as in the above image and your next quest is locked for 4.5 hours then you are on track and there is no bug

yup, it does show 57/74
weird, cause ....what i said above....

Thankx @SoggyShorts

 

[DeletedUser4372]

every new event just keeps replacing useless trash prizes for anything that was decent. these events are hardly worth the time but hey, i am saving big time on my diamond purchases. since they are getting so cheap with make believe and trashy drops, i am getting cheap with REAL MONEY... wonder if they will ever catch on?

 

[JDCartee]

I am unable to get the daily exclusives. I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of candies. Well over 2000 with no love. Is the percentage calculation off or am I wildly unlucky?

 

[Lelanya]

I am unable to get the daily exclusives. I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of candies. Well over 2000 with no love. Is the percentage calculation off or am I wildly unlucky?

Wow
And you have tried logging out and back in?

Just to take this a little further. I suspect that there is some mechanism that weighs overall progress along the goal of InnoG has, of getting Granx Prizes into your inventory. So if we have been extraordinarily lucky with snagging dailies on previous days it may push us to spend more on other days. This forces us to do more quests, to collect more candies so we can attempt to acquire the next thing.
I also suspect that the odds are reset occasionally, and that we have a new person at the switch. But that is my cynical side showing today.

 

[The Unbeliever]

I am unable to get the daily exclusives. I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of candies. Well over 2000 with no love. Is the percentage calculation off or am I wildly unlucky?

Nope, welcome to the world of RNG's, where variance will always kick 1-2% of players in the (*insert chosen curse here*).


As for my personal feedback?
This event is hot garbage. Nothing of value as literally EVERYTHING is just a worse copy of something we've had over the past 1-2 years worth of events.
If Inno wants me to drop dias, then give me something that's actually worth plonking down in my city!!
But when I can build basic buildings that give 'oodles more mana/seeds than any of these dumpster fire event buildings? Feth it... when the so-called "Grand Prize", still isn't giving us an HP boost for your military units, let alone providing free units/viable amount of mana/seeds/orks/etc... resources? Feth it...

Garbage event is garbage is all I can say.

 

[Moho]

I am unable to get the daily exclusives. I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of candies. Well over 2000 with no love. Is the percentage calculation off or am I wildly unlucky?

I, on the other hand, have accumulated over a dozen so far (doubles, triples, quadruples, and quintuples). I really tried not to, but I think they like me.

 

[getmomo]

So I got to quest 68 on the carnival today and the carnival locks for 11 hours and says I have to wait because the next quest is not ready yet. What's up with that?

 

[Lelanya]

So I got to quest 68 on the carnival today and the carnival locks for 11 hours and says I have to wait because the next quest is not ready yet. What's up with that?

Grats!! You are caught up to the current daily quest. When the timer runs down you will get the new one, and once per day until the end.