Event Building Rewards

[Enevhar Aldarion]

All I can say is if anyone messes with my Jester's Tavern, the set it is part of, and the 70k+ tier 3 goods it gives me every day at chapter 19, I will hurt them. lol

 

[Myne]

Myne,
When I made the poll I needed to be clear since a vague request to the Dev's would not be received well. Clearly if we can get the Dev's to adjust this way we can then ask for a reasonable proportion of T1,2,3 buildings in the future.

Thank you! A reasonable proportion is a great goal!

 

[MaidenFair]

That's why it was so sad when @Iyapo1 stopped!

I know! I was really looking forward to seeing her progress. I won't be the one to prove caterers can be competitive, because the leaderboards for me are more of a curiosity than a motivating factor (case in point, in my main city I just passed the 50K score mark in the last few weeks...in chapter 9 ).

There are definitely a lot of complications and to the decay stuff.

Oh, I believe it. I expect I'll have to expand my city quite a bit to accommodate new factories and seed producers, which is going to throw off all my carefully balanced productions, hopefully only in the short term.

And not to confuse/discourage anyone, it's probably more than easy/feasible to run a pure catering city if you're doing like 2k of tourney. I'm saying I don't think anyone in the Top 20 of tourney charts or whatever are pure caterers. I could be wrong! I would like to learn if I am wrong.

Absolutely! Like I said, I'm not aware of anyone actually doing that yet; my tournament average is only creeping up to 5K. I just think it's probably possible.

 

[Fiona Selah]

Can I vote twice? (IN FAVOR IN FAVOR!)

 

[Myne]

The verbage in the official question/request will open the discussion on this with the mods. I am good with that. MAYBE we will find out what the sam fire heck they are thinking..or not. But at least we will have poked them with a stick to bring it to their attention.

 

[samidodamage]

@Myne
Don't forget: first it has to get past the global CM vote
@crackie has an opinion about which CM it is that doesn't want to let anything the players ask for get in front of the devs; 'CM of Towanga' or some name like that...

 

[Myne]

@Myne
Don't forget: first it has to get past the global CM vote
@crackie has an opinion about which CM it is that doesn't want to let anything the players ask for get in front of the devs; 'CM of Towanga' or some name like that...

yep it's that Tonga person...Let's hope the votes add up to at least getting it to the CMs to discuss, because I really believe everyone feels the same way we do. I also believe the other CMs have heard it regularly too.

 

[crackie]

'CM of Towanga' or some name like that...

The Brazilian CM seems to have a lot of pull too! German company with Swedish purse strings and large English speaking base, but the default language of the wiki if you don’t enter a market prefix (wiki.elvenar.com) takes you to the Brazilian version by default and is in Portuguese! Brazil and Tonga probably caucus together to foil our interests!

 

[helya]

The Brazilian CM seems to have a lot of pull too! German company with Swedish purse strings and large English speaking base, but the default language of the wiki if you don’t enter a market prefix (wiki.elvenar.com) takes you to the Brazilian version by default and is in Portuguese! Brazil and Tonga probably caucus together to foil our interests!

The PT CM is part of our voting block, we like them.

 

[ajqtrz]

Every time you change the ratios of production between goods by offering one type of building other than another you imbalance the system. That imbalance will eventually work itself out as players adjust their output/production/trading patterns. Eventually may mean months or years depending on just how much production becomes imbalanced and how much players impose restrictions on things. If you say "no T3 for T1 or T2" then you are restricting the flow of T3 so that is can only be traded for 2 types of goods. If those goods have a high degree of production you end up with a lot of T3.

Now if you, as a player, have a lot of T3 and can, you will offer it for the more needed T1 or T2. But if you are restricted to offering that T3 at the normal production measure of 2 stars, (i.e what the system implies is a fair trade), you T3 is even less valuable because you can't discount it to pick up T2 or T1.

Now, to speed thing up in getting the markets to adjust we need to ignore the in-game implied "fair" market values and value things by what they are worth in terms of supply/demand AND our own personal intangible needs (like needing some goods to finish a tournament province and needing them NOW!). In addition, we should not be so generous to those who are offering T3 goods for T2 or T1 at the 2-star level. In doing so we are just allowing them to ignore the imbalances in supply/demand and therefore insuring the natural adjustment takes more time. I say this in regards to small to medium players and above more than to players in chapters 1-5 or so since the amounts in those trades are so small they probably don't hurt anything. However once you begin trading in lots of 5-10K you are probably large enough to afford discounting your T3 and thus bringing things back into balance.

To summarize, in the end the most balanced markets are those without too many restrictions intended to keep things balanced or enforce some vision of "fairness." The more Inno stays out of it, and the more we players actually start taking only the trades based upon supply/demand AND own intangibles, the faster things will work themselves out.

AJ

 

[Huor]

I can tell you at this point in my elvenar career I stopped upgrading/evolving any event buildings I won at the point where it changes from t1/t2 to t3. The good thing about this is you don't have to do much in the event. When the last building hit stage 4, that was it for me. It also will never need to be upgraded so that adds to my rr pile. I'm so thankful for the pilgrims set for what it produces! In my neighborhood it is almost all trades with t3. Discounted or not, I'm up to my eyeballs in it. It is a mess at the moment. imho. I hope it balances itself out, but it would be nice to see a set like the pilgrims set that was pure t2.

 

[Myne]

I can tell you at this point in my elvenar career I stopped upgrading/evolving any event buildings I won at the point where it changes from t1/t2 to t3. The good thing about this is you don't have to do much in the event. When the last building hit stage 4, that was it for me. It also will never need to be upgraded so that adds to my rr pile. I'm so thankful for the pilgrims set for what it produces! In my neighborhood it is almost all trades with t3. Discounted or not, I'm up to my eyeballs in it. It is a mess at the moment. imho. I hope it balances itself out, but it would be nice to see a set like the pilgrims set that was pure t2.

absolutely love the pilgrims set..I'm with you!

 

[Myne]

Every time you change the ratios of production between goods by offering one type of building other than another you imbalance the system. That imbalance will eventually work itself out as players adjust their output/production/trading patterns. Eventually may mean months or years depending on just how much production becomes imbalanced and how much players impose restrictions on things. If you say "no T3 for T1 or T2" then you are restricting the flow of T3 so that is can only be traded for 2 types of goods. If those goods have a high degree of production you end up with a lot of T3.

Now if you, as a player, have a lot of T3 and can, you will offer it for the more needed T1 or T2. But if you are restricted to offering that T3 at the normal production measure of 2 stars, (i.e what the system implies is a fair trade), you T3 is even less valuable because you can't discount it to pick up T2 or T1.

Now, to speed thing up in getting the markets to adjust we need to ignore the in-game implied "fair" market values and value things by what they are worth in terms of supply/demand AND our own personal intangible needs (like needing some goods to finish a tournament province and needing them NOW!). In addition, we should not be so generous to those who are offering T3 goods for T2 or T1 at the 2-star level. In doing so we are just allowing them to ignore the imbalances in supply/demand and therefore insuring the natural adjustment takes more time. I say this in regards to small to medium players and above more than to players in chapters 1-5 or so since the amounts in those trades are so small they probably don't hurt anything. However once you begin trading in lots of 5-10K you are probably large enough to afford discounting your T3 and thus bringing things back into balance.

To summarize, in the end the most balanced markets are those without too many restrictions intended to keep things balanced or enforce some vision of "fairness." The more Inno stays out of it, and the more we players actually start taking only the trades based upon supply/demand AND own intangibles, the faster things will work themselves out.

AJ

I would ask you not bring this contentious subject up. Your theories about trading do not have any bearing on this conversation.

 

[cleverphox]

I will do that. I know my people aren't doing that, but will check on others. This 3rd tier for 1st or 2nd tier SEEMS to have become a problem within the last 6 months or so. I believe that is the correct time frame.

I don't believe this to be much of an issue. Generally speaking, if there is a demand for the goods and the player gets the trades then good for them. I do think, however, that and expiry date on the trade would be cool. That way they can be picky without gouging, and they'd have to compete with others with better offers.

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

I rather think this helps newer players rather than hurts. In the trader, bigger players are much, much more likely to take your t1 crosstrades and give you t3s than the other way around. Hence, the more t1s you have to trade, the more trades will be accepted by the big players who can easily afford to take your trades and who will always need t1s, either for themselves or to help their newer team members. At least that's how I see it.

If I can avoid giving away my hard earned t1 for a fraction of the amount of t3 I absolutely will. It nearly makes me cry to have to cross trade down.

 

[defiantoneks]

i'm gonna come right out and say i voted no. i dont like "only" requests or processes. whatever buildings you win you have an option of using or not. if you get buildings that offer up T3 what it does for you is also reduce the number of T3 manufactories you need, so you can drop one off the city and recover that space and population, which can amount to a lot. that opens up other possibilities for you to manufacture things you do need, or add other "special" buildings.

 

[Darielle]

I'm sure this is true but I'm not convinced that it's because it's the only way to do it. From what I saw as a new player searching for advice and advancement strategies, 99.5% of the advice out there comes from and is geared to fighting players. When new players suggest catering, or ask how it can be done, the answer is almost always "It can't be, so don't bother!". This causes a self-perpetuating cycle whereby any players who might have excelled at catering later on are instead converted early on to fighting because it's How Things Are Done™, and they in turn end up telling newer players that you can't possibly cater once you get past the first chapters, you have to fight.


I haven't gone far enough in the chapters (nearing the end of 9 now) to guarantee that it's sustainable to be good at everything as a caterer all the way through but based on my experience so far, I do have to wonder if the lack of late-game/competitive caterers might simply be due to the lack of available advice and the active discouragement from trying by the vocal and widespread advice-givers who do guarantee that it can't be done, rather than due to a built-in-to-the-game inability to be a successful caterer.

I'm in Chapter 17 and I cater at least half of the time, if not more. I found I needed to fight more as I went higher not because I REALLY needed to, but because it would just take so many more factories than you can find room for if you're going to do the HUUUUUUUUUGE guest races of the higher chapters. When a guest race starts taking literally half your city, then it's almost impossible to find the room to cater. But it is not impossible to do a lot of catering in the higher chapters.

For me, I have 6 silk (one maxed, 5 one level below maxed because I can't find the room to max them). 6 maxed planks, 4 maxed dust, 2 of each bismuth, obsidian and moonstone. (I actually have 3 of each of the latter, and an extra planks, but I had to store the extra when the guest race demanded more space. ... and I still don't have the ability to do the quest that asks for 6 more large ships, so I'm stuck on the quest line.) I also have, of course, evolving buildings, tons of festival merchants for seeds, close to a dozen wonders, and some armories for when I do fight. Most people I know would not think of having that many factories at this late stage. But I manage. I literally hate fighting, but I have fought all the way up the spire when I have enough 5-days out. I've more often catered my way to the top. Whatever works.

 

[StarLoad]

I have a chapter 11 city that can cater the tourney just fine Goods wise out to 25 provinces, but after Round 4 in the upper provinces the cost starts to get too high and I fight a few. I have done 15 provinces to 6 rounds all catering many times

The spire I mix between both

Ed

 

[Genefer]

I would like a T2 building set to balance the Pilgrim & Ruin sets

My ruin produces 50,475 T3 goods

Each - 3hr T3 production - with my MH - is 4,928 units

My Ruin T3 production is worth 10 3hr T3 factory productions

My Ruin is upgraded to chapter & my factories are upgraded to research, so this ratio will hold relatively to any chapter in a city with equal progression - with a little variance either way for the Mountain H. It seems to me that T3 goods are commonly over produced, add the addition of the Ruin the T3 goods have flooded the trader - within & without the Fellowship.

i'm gonna come right out and say i voted no. i dont like "only" requests or processes. whatever buildings you win you have an option of using or not. if you get buildings that offer up T3 what it does for you is also reduce the number of T3 manufactories you need, so you can drop one off the city and recover that space and population, which can amount to a lot. that opens up other possibilities for you to manufacture things you do need, or add other "special" buildings.

That is the answer to fixing the flood of T3 goods. Players need to take advantage of the goods produced through culture buildings by reducing their city production of T3 goods - by removing a factory or 2. The Ruin set saved me from having to add 2 more Gem factories and reduce the number of Enchantments I needed to produce the quantity of T3 goods I need.

So, store those unnecessary T3 factories and build T2 or T1 factories to produce enough goods to trade for the goods needed.

I will vote in favor, because I doubt anyone will rebalance their city - and there are far too many T3 goods out there as it is

 

[Lelanya]

We should be careful what we request in the way of change from the Developers.
Their goal is to create a pretty game that earns them revenue. The ones that strove for balance have moved on to 'other unspecified projects'. In fact you are asking the Devs to change their current goal of early player retention to one that accommodates other targets.

There is a long history of this strategy backfiring badly. For example, we  asked them to change the quest 'Accept x many trade offers' in the event quests, as this is too difficult for small cities especially those in sparse areas. We asked them to  add in the Wholesaler. Now there are precisely  no quests to Accept a Trade (from fellows or neighbors) and only Wholesaler quests. And the Wholesaler has since been rebalanced so that these are quests can bankrupt a small city, but the Devs will not review this change. So here we are, wondering why didn't we leave well enough alone?
By the way I have sacrificed my personal integrity to go on Facebook during a Q&A to ask the new guy Tiago to review this policy but he refused, like the previous one Bernard.

Be careful what you ask for: you may get it. For the record, the OP of the above request re trades was left stammering in shock when they saw what had been done to their attempt to help the small players out on the rim.