Fellowship recommendation mechanism is horrible

[SoulsSilhouette]

Or those of us who are recruiting new members could check a box to be recommended to new players. I will check that box.... give us options as well... for chapter requirements or points ....

 

[Genefer]

This will never happen, but it would be nice if there was a check box form with a list of the common Expectations/Benefits for both the player and Fellowship. It is time consuming to visit and read Fellowship overviews again and again - it would be nice to have smaller list to consider.

 

[Count Rupert]

Last time I was looking for a new fellowship the suggested fellowships had between 4 and the highest 17 members. I'm not sure if my city would be considered large, but I am officially in chapter 16.

I did not look at the member status,

Seems the simplest method would just remove inactive cities to a separate server or realm until a player returns to the game. Assuming removed cities are automatically removed from Fellowships - if not that is the problem, but it shouldn't be difficult to fix.

They are not removed from fellowships.

 

[crackie]

In a healthy system, a lot of it could be taken care of internally if they give AMs better tools to manage the FS and recruit with. Unfortunately, I don’t think Inno will ever give us activity info due to privacy issues. And also, if you’re a new AM that suddenly found out you have 20 dead accounts, that might just be too overwhelming and not worth your effort to try to keep the ship afloat. It would be helpful if they just disband instead of just leave the game with a husk of FS lingering about. Ok, so you might not be management material, but you don’t need to quit the game. Go play in someone else’s FS. However, you might be leaning towards quitting if you think nobody is really playing the game since all you see is being surrounded by inactive accounts.

 

[Silver Lady]

Maybe players shouldn't be allowed to start a FS until Fairies (graduated first 5 and 1 settlement chapter to understand basic game concepts).

To bad this was included in changes that made the new tech tree. It really makes sense, how can you run an FS before you really know how to play the game?

Seems the simplest method would just remove inactive cities to a separate server or realm until a player returns to the game. Assuming removed cities are automatically removed from Fellowships - if not that is the problem, but it shouldn't be difficult to fix.

Yes, if Inno is moving an inactive city seems like the ought to be removed from their FS too.

EDIT: I retract removing inactive cities from their FS based on @mucksterme comment below. Was not thinking about inactive AMs; removing them would be a much bigger deal.

 

[mucksterme]

Yes, if Inno is moving an inactive city seems like the ought to be removed from their FS too.

If an FS cannot take care of a basic function like removing an inactive player, that isn't much of an FS.
Also, what if that inactive player is the AM and they have no mages?
And lastly, What if the FS wanted to keep that inactive player on their rolls, for whatever reason?

 

[crackie]

If an FS cannot take care of a basic function like removing an inactive player, that isn't much of an FS.
Also, what if that inactive player is the AM and they have no mages?
And lastly, What if the FS wanted to keep that inactive player on their rolls, for whatever reason?

All true and possible, and yet, the game is suggesting these type of quality FS to me as a new city. That can't possibly be good for the game.

 

[Astram]

One problem with Elvenstats is that it uses score change as an activity determiner. You can play every day but if you are parked or not growing, you can get marked as inactive.

 

[crackie]

One problem with Elvenstats is that it uses score change as an activity determiner. You can play every day but if you are parked or not growing, you can get marked as inactive.

That can be true, but I have embedded myself in one of these fellowships before to observe what happens. I check Elvenstats about once a month to see where we're at and each time, more black triangles. Eventually, all black triangles. People stop playing. No visits. No tourney score. No Spire score. It's VERY difficult for new cities to stop acquiring score as well. Even though they're a new city, they've stopped building and thought that level 4 factory and level 3 residence would do? Unlikely.

 

[Astram]

That can be true, but I have embedded myself in one of these fellowships before to observe what happens. I check Elvenstats about once a month to see where we're at and each time, more black triangles. Eventually, all black triangles. People stop playing. No visits. No tourney score. No Spire score. It's VERY difficult for new cities to stop acquiring score as well. Even though they're a new city, they've stopped building and thought that level 4 factory and level 3 residence would do? Unlikely.

I am sure that this is a general malaise in the low chapters

 

[crackie]

I am sure that this is a general malaise in the low chapters

They’ve already revamped chap 1-5 to make it easier to get through. They’ve malaised themselves to a different game.

 

[hoopity]

It's funny -- I've known the recommendation system is terrible for years, but it never crossed my mind that it ought to be fixed. Good thread, @crackie. A simple solution: inno has access to actual login stats for their users, so maybe remove FS from the recommendation list if they don't have at least X number of players to have logged in within the past Y days. They don't even need to tell us the values of X and Y in case they ever want to tweak it -- just calculate a value for every FS once per day, don't surface it anywhere to players, but use it in the FS recommendation list. My initial thought is 10 players in the past 7 days, but everyone has an opinion.

 

[ajqtrz]

Or we players could fix the problem by centralizing recruitment on an off site web page. Each server would have a place where you put in what you are looking for and it searches to find active players for you. If elvenstats is able to get that data, and the site used the same definition of "active", then it would be child's play for a search for active players meeting your criteria. And it would, no doubt, drive a LOT of traffic to the site. The most logical place would be elvenstats but I'm not sure if the person running that wants' to take on the job.

Barring that, you can also, if you are on Khelonaar, join The Consortium, a group of 9 fellowships all recruiting together. So far we've place, in the last month, about 40 or so players in active and vibrant fellowships in the The Consortium. To be honest, the hardest part is placing players in the top tier (40 or less) as those fellowships tend to be very aggressive and often "invite" players already in fellowships. Anyone in the 40-60 level range has probably experienced this. I know I have. But, on the other hand, the TC is there and working well enough. You could join us if you are on Khelonaar. Or start your own TC if you aren't?

AJ

 

[hoopity]

Or we players could fix the problem by centralizing recruitment on an off site web page. Each server would have a place where you put in what you are looking for and it searches to find active players for you. If elvenstats is able to get that data, and the site used the same definition of "active", then it would be child's play for a search for active players meeting your criteria. And it would, no doubt, drive a LOT of traffic to the site. The most logical place would be elvenstats but I'm not sure if the person running that wants' to take on the job.

For every one person who plays the game, I'm sure only a small fraction, 1-5% stick around long enough to even consider using an out-of-game resource like what you're describing, and that's supposing that they even learn about it. Not to mention most new players are probably on mobile and will also resist out-of-app solutions.

I think a recruitment tool for experienced and active players (like the one you're describing) is a fun idea, but Inno's in-game FS recommendation system is almost certainly hurting player retention and needs improvement.

 

[Dew Spinner]

For every one person who plays the game, I'm sure only a small fraction, 1-5% stick around long enough to even consider using an out-of-game resource like what you're describing, and that's supposing that they even learn about it. Not to mention most new players are probably on mobile and will also resist out-of-app solutions.

I think a recruitment tool for experienced and active players (like the one you're describing) is a fun idea, but Inno's in-game FS recommendation system is almost certainly hurting player retention and needs improvement.

Yes, but Inno is too busy changing the background music and adding Elvenar emojis to be bothered with something like that!

 

[Smooper]

Or we players could fix the problem by centralizing recruitment on an off site web page. Each server would have a place where you put in what you are looking for and it searches to find active players for you. If elvenstats is able to get that data, and the site used the same definition of "active", then it would be child's play for a search for active players meeting your criteria. And it would, no doubt, drive a LOT of traffic to the site. The most logical place would be elvenstats but I'm not sure if the person running that wants' to take on the job.

Barring that, you can also, if you are on Khelonaar, join The Consortium, a group of 9 fellowships all recruiting together. So far we've place, in the last month, about 40 or so players in active and vibrant fellowships in the The Consortium. To be honest, the hardest part is placing players in the top tier (40 or less) as those fellowships tend to be very aggressive and often "invite" players already in fellowships. Anyone in the 40-60 level range has probably experienced this. I know I have. But, on the other hand, the TC is there and working well enough. You could join us if you are on Khelonaar. Or start your own TC if you aren't?

AJ

I like what you are doing on Khelonaar but there is no way that an off-site recruitment page will work. As Hoopity says, players won't visit it often enough even if they have heard of it. Most Elvenaar players just want to play the game and do nothing else.

 

[CanDaMan]

The only problem here is that, all Inno cares about is the Ca-Ching! They aren't about to oust 'potential' money, at any cost (see what I did there?!)

 

[Genefer]

I can't imagine anything that reduces player retention can ever be a positive, and considering the numerous issues that contribute to city abandonment that continue - endlessly - to ignored, I seems to me money is not even close to a priority.

 

[ajqtrz]

I like what you are doing on Khelonaar but there is no way that an off-site recruitment page will work. As Hoopity says, players won't visit it often enough even if they have heard of it. Most Elvenaar players just want to play the game and do nothing else.

The site wouldn't be for players seeking fellowships, but for recruiters looking for active players meeting their criteria. So you go there, put in your criteria, and, depending on if you select "no fellowships only" or not, you get a list of active player matching what you want. If it was sophisticated enough you could even suggest things like "in fellowships with 50% or more inactives." That data is there and it could be done.

AJ

 

[crackie]

It's funny -- I've known the recommendation system is terrible for years, but it never crossed my mind that it ought to be fixed. Good thread, @crackie. A simple solution: inno has access to actual login stats for their users, so maybe remove FS from the recommendation list if they don't have at least X number of players to have logged in within the past Y days. They don't even need to tell us the values of X and Y in case they ever want to tweak it -- just calculate a value for every FS once per day, don't surface it anywhere to players, but use it in the FS recommendation list. My initial thought is 10 players in the past 7 days, but everyone has an opinion.

In a game where they lump everyone together for all considerations for rankings, I am not sure why fellowship suggestions is where they felt they need to suddenly group players by size (assuming that’s what the algo is doing). Not tournaments or FAs, but fellowship suggestions. Err? Mixing newbies into established FS, whether they be casual or competitive, is where they can get most guidance and encouragement to keep at it (right, @FairyInBellbottoms?). Most players don’t even know the forum exists. Their peers are the best place for knowledge. There is no knowledge in a FS of newbies led by a newbie. It’s better to not suggest any FS than point them to empty husks. Unless they fear that too much guidance prevents them from spending $$$ on . I feel like the new players that come through my FS still spend $$$ though, but I don’t have the data. I dunno, making them struggle in a bad FS to get them to spend money is still a short-sighted strategy though. Then you prob only have them for a few chapters to milk.