Fellowship Tools

[DeletedUser2870]

I finally worked out kinks in the conditional formatting formulas in my FS sheet which has morphed from its humbler beginnings to include columns on factory numbers, sizes, and levels. However, those alone won't do. We also need to take into account boost percentages and production activity, i.e. doing how many of each prod-run type a day. For example, Marble should be our biggest concern right now since it has the lowest space and size out of all tiers but, since 3 Marble producers are very active, we're not feeling a shortage. Our Magic Dust on the other hand, used to have better numbers than Gems but the Gems producers (who are also the 3 Marble producers and I'm one of them) are also very active to the point that we have an excess of Gems even though Elixirs outnumbered us a lot before.

I wouldn't have had to add those extra columns if everyone entered their daily average output numbers because those are the most accurate figures but people were busy with the holidays and Flurry and are still recovering. I do find the extra columns useful though because they can help predict certain situations when output data is missing or not updated. Right now, I can see that cross-tier trading is inevitable because there's more space dedicated to Tier 3 factories than Tier 2 with Tier 1 close behind. It might be because some of our fellows are in the Orcs chapter which needs Tier 3 goods but, since I'm not yet in that chapter, I can't say for sure what the variables are and how to adjust ideal ratio calculations to account for guest race demands

Though I must congratulate you on an excelsheet that takes into account the number and lvl of specific factories of different pkayers, it still is only an indication.
A player with fewer, lower lvl factories may actually produce more because hes able to reset them every 3 hours while the other guy is using 9 hour resets. Or as in my case, because Im feeling screwed by the devs, often use 24 hour resets and dont play as much anymore.
;P you should add a column where you keep track of how many times a day they reset their factories...just a hint from a controlfreak...grins

 

[DeletedUser4778]

Though I must congratulate you on an excelsheet that takes into account the number and lvl of specific factories of different pkayers, it still is only an indication.
A player with fewer, lower lvl factories may actually produce more because hes able to reset them every 3 hours while the other guy is using 9 hour resets. Or as in my case, because Im feeling screwed by the devs, often use 24 hour resets and dont play as much anymore.
;P you should add a column where you keep track of how many times a day they reset their factories...just a hint from a controlfreak...grins

Exactly, fellow control freak Dhurrin. This is why actual output figures are more accurate because those are the ones that take everything into account down to boosts, # of production runs, production lengths, etc. Actual output figures would have obviated the need for my extra columns. The extra columns were added for me to able to guesstimate output and for people who didn't know their output and asked me how to compute it (I also have a goods estimate tab although that needs updating). I usually reply by asking which production runs they do and in what numbers. If they don't know their 3-hour or 9-hour production run output, I just ask them to give me either and multiply or divide by 1.82 to 1.84 depending on tier type.

 

[DeletedUser2274]

I see a few people mentioning that this idea, if put in place, should be an "option" for the FS members to let the Archmage know their stats or to "opt out" and hide their stats. I don't think it should be an option at all for the AM to know the stats of all of the memebers. Maybe not let the whole fellowship be able to see, but at least the archmage.

The Archmage should know if their members are helping the others. You're part of a fellowship, an if you're not doing your part to help that fellowship in visits or at the very least accepting/posting trades, then there is absolutely no reason for you to even be in a fellowship and you should just venture out on your own. I even have it in my fellowship description to that affect.

I don't want or need a whole lot of stats, the only thing I want is to be able to see the last 2-3 times my members do visits, whether or not they've been active in trades, and MAYBE their boosted goods. I'm not really that concerned about the overall score of the fellowship itself, I'm more concerned with my memebers getting the help they need to grow themselves no matter what the score of the fellowship is and we can't help each other with a bunch of laggers piggybacking on everyone else. I would like to see my members get well enough ahead to perhaps start their own fellowships but they can't do that without help of the other members.

I stress all.the.time about how the game is just a game and we have have our real lives to deal with, but if u can visit at least twice a week and maybe accept one single trade and perhaps post one, that may help a whole lot more than not bothering to do it at all. I told my members that if they don't have time to visit the whole fellowship at least go to my page and visit just so I know they were there, then they can get the rest when they have time. I know that's kind of opening the door to them not visiting others, but sometimes it's what I feel like I only have time to do-- visit one person and get the rest later.

I keep track the best I can and always send the visit chart to my Archmage in facebook group chat, if they see discrepancies then they let me know.... I'm human, I miss info sometimes because I have so much other stuff on my plate. So, this information idea would be fantastic to me. I don't believe it should be an "option" for the members to let me see their most basic stats. If they don't want to show that they're active in the fellowship, then they should even bother being a part of a fellowship.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. I don't believe it should be an "option" for the members to let me see their most basic stats

There's nothing wrong with having the option. It allows those FS that value privacy over interaction to play as they choose.
It is very simple for you to have a rule in your FS that states "Archmage stats reporting must be turned on in this FS"

I personally would never want to be in a "No rules, just have fun and try to be active" FS, but we need to allow for players that do want that.
There are at least 3 levels of fellowships,

• The super casual
• The mid-range: "Min 3-4 visits per week, post trades etc"
• The involved: 4-5 visits, boosted only builds, only recruiting players with xx score, and YY boosts

Having robust FS stats would cater to all 3. If they are going to program it so that we can see last login stats, and visits, let's take it one step further, and show us average production including boosts. Any FS not interested in some or all of those can simply ignore them.

 

[Ashrem]

I see a few people mentioning that this idea, if put in place, should be an "option" for the FS members to let the Archmage know their stats or to "opt out" and hide their stats. I don't think it should be an option at all for the AM to know the stats of all of the memebers. Maybe not let the whole fellowship be able to see, but at least the archmage.

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

Then the /who function and all IM software violate that privacy law.

 

[mucksterme]

Then the /who function and all IM software violate that privacy law.

This

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

Also many games have chats that say "Soggy has logged in"
"Soggy has left"

Now personally, I don't know why Never Winter Knights is tracking his movements. I guess he's just popular that way.

 

[DeletedUser2274]

If this is implemented and the members have an option to turn it on and off then, yes, I would have them all keep theirs on. But I'm saying that being a part of a fellowship is to help and be helped, otherwise there is absolutely NO reason to be a part of a fellowship, whatsoever. If my members don't let me see their stats then I'll just assume they're inactive more than they are active and they won't be a part of the fellowship.

And I don't mean I want to "evade their privacy" and be able to see what time they were on, or how long they were on, or even that they were on for any specific amount of time... I just simply want to know if they have been active and how many of the last few days were they active without having to depend solely on notifications. Visit notifications get booted out after trades and other visits get piled on top of them.

 

[DeletedUser2274]

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

I don't 't see how it could be when, back in the day, Aol was constantly showing who was online and at what time, and even how long they've been offline. And now facebook does it too. Besides that, I'm not interested in seeing how long they were on, or at what time, or even if they're on at that current moment (which we can do now anyway).... I ONLY want to know that they were active at some point within the past however many days and that they did visit at least one day of the past week.

 

[DeletedUser2963]

quote, snipe, quote, snipe, quote final snipe....*drinks more vodka*

*Deletes sniping*
*glares at screen*

 

[Ashrem]

Then the /who function and all IM software violate that privacy law.

The /who function tells you nothing about how long, or how often the user was on, and doesn't tell you anything about what they are doing. IM software is 100% a choice.

I don't 't see how it could be when, back in the day, Aol was constantly showing who was online and at what time, and even how long they've been offline.

Bolding above is mine. Many of these games were created before various privacy laws that are being passed every day in reaction to an increasing public understanding of how privacy is being eroded. Most of those games now have a way to opt out of whether other users can see you online. None of them forces you to turn over your last login time and what you have been doing in game for the last week.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

No it doesnt and it isnt.
People join this game willingly, nobody is forcing them. Its a browsergame, so one needs to be online at times.Most browsergames have very elaborate ways of keeping track when a player signs in or out, sometimes to the poinr where it keeps track of being online by mobile device or not. Its something you agree to when you join.
It would be different if theyre putting down your ipnumber and adress for instance, but just letting others know you are online is not a problem.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

The /who function tells you nothing about how long, or how often the user was on, and doesn't tell you anything about what they are doing. IM software is 100% a choice.

No it doesn't but you said this in an earlier post:

I have a strong suspicion that providing info about who is online at what time might skirt privacy laws in a number of jurisdictions. Anything other than an opt-in might well prove to be illegal in some places.

In your earlier post, you mentioned being "online at what time". In your later post you talk about "how long, or how often". Different things. And although the /who function may not say anything about length, frequency, or login time, other IM software do tell you what time someone logs in.

 

[Ashrem]

In your earlier post, you mentioned being "online at what time". In your later post you talk about "how long, or how often". Different things. And although the /who function may not say anything about length, frequency, or login time, other IM software do tell you what time someone logs in.

"online at what time" is specific data that is much more detailed than "have they got the game logged in in a browser window right now" which is all /who tells you. They could have logged in 8 hours ago and not been at the machine for a few minutes to possibly hours. For the infromation to do what is being asked, it needs to identify (at least) how many times they helped each person in the fellowship for the last few days (because if it only identifies how often they helped the Archmage, it's not at all adding anything useful) The suggestion asks for a significant amount of data that could easily be labelled intrusive, and is certainly in violation of any privacy laws that forbid collecting, retaining, and sharing data that is not required for the delivery of the service. I am not opposed to the presence of the tools. I think they are a great idea. I think that making them available by default is probably (now) illegal in some jurisdictions.

And again, IM software is totally voluntary. It offers a specific service that requires the ability for other people to contact you. Nobody gets that information from you unless you offer it, either generally, or to specific people. There is nothing about IM software that is relevant, or comparable, to a game telling someone when I logged in and how many times I helped everyone in my fellowship this week.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Ashrem
You state that IM software is totally voluntary. Perhaps you have missed it, but so is joining an online game. So if using one is ok with you, the other is ok by the same reasoning.
And I know nobody ever bothers to read all those pages of fine print when they join a game or install software, but perhaps one should take the time to actually do so, even if its only one instance, so one knows what one agrees to generally speaking.

 

[Ashrem]

@Ashrem
You state that IM software is totally voluntary. Perhaps you have missed it, but so is joining an online game. So if using one is ok with you, the other is ok by the same reasoning.
And I know nobody ever bothers to read all those pages of fine print when they join a game or install software, but perhaps one should take the time to actually do so, even if its only one instance, so one knows what one agrees to generally speaking.

Which is all perfectly true, but doesn't change the fact that IM software is for IMing, which means a person using it should have an expectation that people they've agreed to talk to are going to be able to see if they are online. I am not aware of any IM Software that tells people how many times you logged in this week, and how many other people in your shared circle you talked to and when.

And Elvenar isn't IM software. And it doesn't have to log how many people you helped this week and report it to a third part in order to do what we signed up for, which is to play a game. It really is apples and turnips. They're both plants, but not even remotely the same kind of plants.

 

[mucksterme]

How about this.
It is pretty hard to invade people's privacy when we all use fake names?
And if you don't use a fake name
or you reveal your real life identity through Facebook et al
then you've already made the choice about privacy

 

[Ashrem]

or you reveal your real life identity through Facebook et al
then you've already made the choice about privacy

False equivalency used as a red herring. The fact someone shares their name (or any other personal information) with other people does not mean they are providing a blanket permission to have access to any and all information about themselves. Just because an actor's real name is known to the public does not mean they want someone publicizing to anyone who has their name what time they have breakfast and what they like in their coffee.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Which is all perfectly true, but doesn't change the fact that IM software is for IMing, which means a person using it should have an expectation that people they've agreed to talk to are going to be able to see if they are online. I am not aware of any IM Software that tells people how many times you logged in this week, and how many other people in your shared circle you talked to and when.

And Elvenar isn't IM software. And it doesn't have to log how many people you helped this week and report it to a third part in order to do what we signed up for, which is to play a game. It really is apples and turnips. They're both plants, but not even remotely the same kind of plants.

Im getting the feeling you're just looking for an argument for arguments sake.
Doesnt matter whether its an online game or an IM. People choose to accept the conditions, mostly without even making an attempt of reading them. People are free to decline and look for another game, so your point is moot.
As for what is or is not registered or logged, every time you use your browser to go anywhere it is logged. We can all scream about it and pretend its not happening, but fact is, it is. If you have a problem with it, just dont go online anymore.

 

[Ashrem]

Im getting the feeling you're just looking for an argument for arguments sake.

I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to stop me from disagreeing with you by making me look bad.

People choose to accept the conditions, mostly without even making an attempt of reading them. People are free to decline and look for another game, so your point is moot.

The difference here being that we're talking about increasing data collection and providing it to a third party after people already agreed to a set of conditions that didn't include such sharing, putting them in the position of losing their expenditure of gems and effort to this point if they don't like the new conditions. That becomes something akin to "bait-and-switch."

As for what is or is not registered or logged, every time you use your browser to go anywhere it is logged. We can all scream about it and pretend its not happening, but fact is, it is. If you have a problem with it, just dont go online anymore.

I've never once argued against the inclusion of such tools. I've said more than once that I think they are a good idea. I happen to think they need to be implemented on a voluntary basis because the leader of a fellowship does not have to have that information in order for people to play the game. The Arch-Mages are a third party, under no contractual obligation to Inno to protect that information and use it in accordance with the law. Many privacy laws are very explicit about businesses sharing information with third parties without the explicit consent of the individual.

I entered into a contract with Inno when I created my account and agreed to provide them the information necessary for them to deliver a game and agreed to allow them to contact me about the game and their related products. I have separately entered into a contract with my fellowship (via exchanged PMs) which specifies my obligations to the group, and theirs to me. Nothing in either of those contracts gave Inno permission to tell the AM of my fellowship anything about how and when I play. If Inno adds such features, I will welcome them, and I will give Inno permission to pass that info on to my AM whether or not our fellowship decides that is a requirement of participation. If they were to add them without the ability to opt out (even via a required agreement to updated terms of service), I believe I would be in a legal position to claim to my nation's Privacy Commissioner that my legal rights have been breached, because I spent money under the original terms and have no recourse to the change in terms. There are jurisdictions who's privacy laws are much more strict than my own.