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Higher losses in recent tournaments

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
There was some heated discussion about higher losses in the most recent crystal tournament, as well as in the ongoing scrolls. Some players stipulated that something has changed, and it is not usual. And what do you know? Apparently, Inno strikes again. Check out this thread on DE forums (Google translate works fine):

https://de.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/29101-pro-ranger-machen-im-turnier-mehr-schaden-als-sie-sollten.16123/

TL;DR - CM on DE forums confirmed that there is an issue with higher damage than expected, and that it was forwarded to developers. There was no confirmation as to the specifics, but current hypothesis is that damage boosters (ELR, Fire Phoenix etc) incorrectly are being applied to enemy troops as well. So the more boosters you deploy, the worse your losses are going to be.

Awesome.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
I saw this, and this really stinks. I'm not convinced this is universal, though. This week, I had a dwarven armorer down and fed my phoenix for every round. I've also got a lvl 11 monastery, lvl 6 toad temple, and lvl 6 victory springs. My losses were about what I'd expect. That is, not fun - this IS scrolls, after all. But I certainly didn't feel like I was fighting an enemy that was as strong as I was. I did mostly autofight, fwiw.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
There was some heated discussion about higher losses in the most recent crystal tournament, as well as in the ongoing scrolls. Some players stipulated that something has changed, and it is not usual. And what do you know? Apparently, Inno strikes again. Check out this thread on DE forums (Google translate works fine):

https://de.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/29101-pro-ranger-machen-im-turnier-mehr-schaden-als-sie-sollten.16123/

TL;DR - CM on DE forums confirmed that there is an issue with higher damage than expected, and that it was forwarded to developers. There was no confirmation as to the specifics, but current hypothesis is that damage boosters (ELR, Fire Phoenix etc) incorrectly are being applied to enemy troops as well. So the more boosters you deploy, the worse your losses are going to be.

Awesome.
Well, I had everything but the kitchen sink going in Crystal and was getting massive losses. I wound up with even more than I originally posted (over 90 squads in mages and paladins, 345 squads total if I remember right) and couldn't figure out why I was still getting my hat handed to me.
This makes more sense now.
Thanks for the post MinMax!

Blackie
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
To add to and clarify my first comment, I also experienced bonkers losses in crystal. Not so in scrolls. So either crystal just completely recalibrated my perception of "normal losses", or this is happening in more specific circumstances. I will be very curious to learn more, and REALLY hope that whatever is wonky gets put back in order before silk next week.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
To add to and clarify my first comment, I also experienced bonkers losses in crystal. Not so in scrolls. So either crystal just completely recalibrated my perception of "normal losses", or this is happening in more specific circumstances. I will be very curious to learn more, and REALLY hope that whatever is wonky gets put back in order before silk next week.
We don't know exactly what is wrong behind the scenes - it might be specific to particular units, some combination of boosts, manual/auto etc. These parts are speculative. Couple of experiments indicated at least one setup is clearly wrong, that was really clear cut. E.g. you field 5 rangers vs 5 enemy rangers, deploy 5 (!) ELR, and then the enemy one-shots your entire squad. That... shouldn't happen ;)

How this issue manifests itself in other circumstances we don't know for sure.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
To add to and clarify my first comment, I also experienced bonkers losses in crystal. Not so in scrolls. So either crystal just completely recalibrated my perception of "normal losses", or this is happening in more specific circumstances. I will be very curious to learn more, and REALLY hope that whatever is wonky gets put back in order before silk next week.
It sounds like it would depend on if/how man, boosts you had deployed. If you had no boosts on for the Scroll tournament, there would be no affect.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
It sounds like it would depend on if/how man, boosts you had deployed. If you had no boosts on for the Scroll tournament, there would be no affect.
Not necessarily, I have heard of people with no buffs also struggling more than normal. There is a confirmed bug on beta
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/29101-forest-warden-doing-more-damage-then-intended.14012/#post-79810

It is unclear if this bug is the same as the others or if there is a bug even when no buffs are in effect.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Bug or not, from our discussion over in the crystal tournament thread, it seems to affect players fighting manually much more than players fighting on auto. It may even be a manual-only bug or glitch. I always auto-fight and I have not noticed the scrolls tournament being any harder for me than usual, and I have more passive boosts from Wonders this time than I had in the last scrolls tournament. Same thing for last week in crystal. And actually, I went further last week than I normally do and did not lose one single battle when auto-fighting.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
I'm still convinced people are exaggerating somewhat. It's obvious from one of the above links that some units may be bugged, but it appears to be related to debuffs that increase damage taken and not player boosts. Nonetheless, 9 weeks is a relatively long time, and on the heels of a pretty unpopular event that stirred up a lot of negative sentiment, I think people are more inclined to look for any negative experience, and subsequently (intentionally or not) blow it out of proportion out of anger.

I'm not really noticing any more losses than usual in this tournament, though scrolls is already the worst one as it is. Of course they've gone up slightly due to the Ranger upgrade, but nothing outside of what I'd consider normal. Silk's coming up next, and it features no new units from the last time we saw it. Should be interesting to see how much 'higher' the losses are compared to what people remember from two months ago.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I'm still convinced people are exaggerating somewhat. It's obvious from one of the above links that some units may be bugged, but it appears to be related to debuffs that increase damage taken and not player boosts. Nonetheless, 9 weeks is a relatively long time, and on the heels of a pretty unpopular event that stirred up a lot of negative sentiment, I think people are more inclined to look for any negative experience, and subsequently (intentionally or not) blow it out of proportion out of anger.

I'm not really noticing any more losses than usual in this tournament, though scrolls is already the worst one as it is. Of course they've gone up slightly due to the Ranger upgrade, but nothing outside of what I'd consider normal. Silk's coming up next, and it features no new units from the last time we saw it. Should be interesting to see how much 'higher' the losses are compared to what people remember from two months ago.
I am sure that is true for a lot of the griping, but I thought there were a couple of people in the other thread who specifically said when they switched from manual to auto, their losses and defeats went down. And considering that might mean same province, but higher star, for the auto-fighting versus previous manual fighting, that says to me either there is a manual fight bug or the auto-fight option has intentionally been made easier by Inno because that is the only option the mobile-only players have.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
but it appears to be related to debuffs that increase damage taken and not player boosts.
Not really. Here is another experiment:

OK, just to confirm the bug: I had decided on an all-in attempt on this tournie in my Arendyll city (Sitticus) and to use mainly light range units, with aid of 4xUUU and 4xELR buildings. Against the orcs, no problems, but rangers are one-shotting my guys on the opening move (despite 4xUUU and level 21 monastery!). My golems are wiped out by enemy rangers - this should not happen with 4xUUU backing them up. After reading on the german forum, I have now disconnected my needles and deleted the 4x ELR buildings. Voila - Golems can win again (tournie round 6). But its not super helpful since my investment was in light ranged units and I will most likely run out of golems.

I filed a ticket with Inno but had no response other than the generic reply. The silence on this issue is deafening! The bug is so easily reproduced for confirmation.
Does it look like a debuff to you?
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Update on the beta bug thread from an experienced combat and beta tester is it affects any units we can train that are in enemy list. Refer link above for message thread on beta. They have said disconnecting wonders/phoenix etc will help reduces loses for the time being. Lets hope this bug gets fixed quickly.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
It sounds like it would depend on if/how man, boosts you had deployed. If you had no boosts on for the Scroll tournament, there would be no affect.
Crystal was so bad, I put down a dwarven armorer this week. I had only a UUU for crystal. So definitely not higher losses from more buffs for me.

However, I don't have a Needles or ELR directly buffing light ranged, so maybe am not feeling the effects as much [Edited to add: in scrolls this week]?

I am sure that is true for a lot of the griping, but I thought there were a couple of people in the other thread who specifically said when they switched from manual to auto, their losses and defeats went down. And considering that might mean same province, but higher star, for the auto-fighting versus previous manual fighting, that says to me either there is a manual fight bug or the auto-fight option has intentionally been made easier by Inno because that is the only option the mobile-only players have.
I used auto-fight almost exclusively in both.

Not necessarily, I have heard of people with no buffs also struggling more than normal. There is a confirmed bug on beta
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/29101-forest-warden-doing-more-damage-then-intended.14012/#post-79810
My little beta city, however, is really struggling this week. I'd just unlocked some new squad size upgrades, and I'm more willing to assume high losses there are normal because I have weaker troops across the board, but it has seemed unusual. There, I switched to manually fighting and had more success.
 
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i8sh

Member
I find it interesting that people are complaining that the tournament has gotten more difficult when in reality it is just getting back to how it use to be before we had all of the boosts available to us (i.e. fire phoenix, brown bear) and that the military boosts are now able to be crafted (vs only available through events)...some might call this a regression to the mean. About 1 year ago the average high score for the top 10 was about 4000 points. Now it is usually above 10,000.

For this tournament I used 4x dwarven armour, 2x ELR, 1x mage, + 1 fire phoenix @ level 10. I was able to do much better than "normal scores" with these boosts and I did go through a lot of units, but it was what I consider normal when pushing for higher scores. I also did a mix of manual and autofights and did not notice much difference between to two (with perhaps fewer units lost when manual fighting). I also used a lot of rangers to prevent my troops from being shot down first (minimized the damage compared to using only archers)

I actually found the crystal to be more challenging than scrolls with the unit upgrades (3* frog was worse than the 3* ranger).
 

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Miroami

Member
I reported this bug on a ticket:

“I read on the forums that there was a confirmed bug with the rangers in this weeks tournament, they were too strong. I wasted loads of troops fighting this week, and I’m sure I am not the only person unhappy to hear that this tournament was accidentally stacked with unbeatable rangers.

Please advise as to what compensation Inno will be providing to myself and the thousands of players that also got beaten up by the stacked rangers.

Thank you..
 
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Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I find it interesting that people are complaining that the tournament has gotten more difficult when in reality it is just getting back to how it use to be before we had all of the boosts available to us (i.e. fire phoenix, brown bear) and that the military boosts are now able to be crafted (vs only available through events)...some might call this a regression to the mean. About 1 year ago the average high score for the top 10 was about 4000 points. Now it is usually above 10,000.

For this tournament I used 4x dwarven armour, 2x ELR, 1x mage, + 1 fire phoenix @ level 10. I was able to do much better than "normal scores" with these boosts and I did go through a lot of units, but it was what I consider normal when pushing for higher scores. I also did a mix of manual and autofights and did not notice much difference between to two (with perhaps fewer units lost when manual fighting). I also used a lot of rangers to prevent my troops from being shot down first (minimized the damage compared to using only archers)

I actually found the crystal to be more challenging than scrolls with the unit upgrades (3* frog was worse than the 3* ranger).
  1. Thats not irony, even if it were correct.
  2. It's not the same as it was.
  3. You are experiencing a false memory. The scores were not 4000 for the top 10 a year ago. 21 months ago, in Jan 2018, I needed more than 12,000 point's to hold number 1 on Felyndral. Three months later, in April, 8500 points was just enough to hold first. The crystal tournament of October last October, all ten of the top 10 were over 4000, so their average was not about 4000.
  4. There are a lot more people participating than there were a year ago, and many have larened better strategies.
 

i8sh

Member
  1. Thats not irony, even if it were correct.
  2. It's not the same as it was.
  3. You are experiencing a false memory. The scores were not 4000 for the top 10 a year ago. 21 months ago, in Jan 2018, I needed more than 12,000 point's to hold number 1 on Felyndral. Three months later, in April, 8500 points was just enough to hold first. The crystal tournament of October last October, all ten of the top 10 were over 4000, so their average was not about 4000.
  4. There are a lot more people participating than there were a year ago, and many have larened better strategies.
I beg to differ Ashrem...below is the tournament ranking for scrolls in October 2018 (average for the top 10 = 3989.1) in my world and yes players like myself have improved our game play.
 

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samidodamage

Well-Known Member