How can the Devs make Enars more worthwhile for more players?

[Pheryll]

I still think the majority of players still overscout just to get the space "they think they need"

Well the Scouts' Tavern will certainly encourage extra scouting. Keeping the scout times low while remaining at the minimum for a chapter may work well for a combo with Enar's, but continuous scouting does a better job making a combo with many other wonders.

 

[Iyapo]

@Pheryll

My memory is not great and I have been on the forum a looonnng time...I think @Silver Lady confessed somewhere that they actually pick up every 3 hour collection from the maze everyday(which kicks the maze into fantabulous territory). I was all impressed! I like sleep too much to manage more than about 4/5 myself.

 

[Pheryll]

@Pheryll

My memory is not great and I have been on the forum a looonnng time...I think @Silver Lady confessed somewhere that they actually pick up every 3 hour collection from the maze everyday(which kicks the maze into fantabulous territory). I was all impressed! I like sleep too much to manage more than about 4/5 myself.

Not excellent territory when looking at the later chapters.

A mana hut in sorcerers and dragons is 2900 mana per day, but in the Vallorian chapter it is 25000 mana per day.

The number of provinces to enter sorcerers and dragons is 220, and for the Vallorian chapter it is 640.

Thus the mana from event buildings increases over the chapters much faster than the scaling per province of the wonders. So even that x2 factor of always collecting (versus 4 collections per day) has already been overcome with chapter progression.

EDIT: Updated to using Sorc/Dragon chapter values.

 

[Henroo]

@Henroo
Am I understanding you correctly? If your Scouts Tavern was at L35, you're scout times would only be 1.5 days?

If my Scout's Tavern were at L35 right now, yes. The issue of course, is that upgrading all the way from my current L15 (waiting on 1 more rune to fill the wheel) to L35 would take quite a while (as well as costing many thousands of KP). By the time I get it to L35 I will have scouted quite a few more provinces and my scout times will have risen dramatically.

Something else about Scouts Tavern that has not really been mentioned is the way that its levels are structured with regards to upgrades. For almost all other ancient wonders there is a consistent gain each time you upgrade them, regardless of level. For example, when you upgrade Golden Abyss from level 22 to level 23 it will receive the same increase in power as it received when you upgraded it from level 2 to level 3. This is NOT the case with Scout's Tavern. The benefits from it are front-loaded. Early on, you are getting an extra 2% reduction in scout times with each level and a 4% reduction with rune phases. After the level 15 rune phase, this drops to a 1% reduction per level for both normal and for rune phase upgrades. However: like all AWs the cost in KP to do an upgrade continues to rise each level. So maxing Scout's Tavern requires you to spend thousands of KP when you will be getting a diminishing return each time you level it up.

But really, I think the whole argument about Scout's Tavern making Enar's Embassy better at high levels is flawed. If you need to upgrade a totally different ancient wonder all the way to level 35 just so Enar's is only bad instead completely terrible at high chapters, to me that is indicitive of a problem with Enar's for endgame players.

 

[defiantoneks]

guess i'm the oddball that just says "i dont like that one, won't build" like several others. the AWs are available, but not mandatory. do what suits your gameplay and leave the rest.

 

[Alram]

But really, I think the whole argument about Scout's Tavern making Enar's Embassy better at high levels is flawed. If you need to upgrade a totally different ancient wonder all the way to level 35 just so Enar's is only bad instead completely terrible at high chapters, to me that is indicitive of a problem with Enar's for endgame plplayers.

Enar's Embassy is not bad. It's a great wonder on its own. The Scouts Tavern sounds great too with reduced scout times+extra goodie boxes. The fact that one helps the other is just a bonus.


I can understand why an advanced chapter player would hesitate to build Enars at that late point in the game.
I'm not an advanced chapter player. I'm looking at building Enar's in chapter 9 and leveling it as soon as possible. At level 30, the Enars Embassy ancient wonder power is 400. These numbers are based on scouting and completing the bare minimum of provinces required to move forward in chapters.
completed provinces x AW power = mana per scout.

Ch9. 30 scouts=2,280,000 mana.
Ch10 30 scouts=2,640,000 mana.
Ch11 30 scouts=3,000,000 mana
Ch12 40 scouts=4,480,000 mana
Ch13 40 scouts=5,120,000 mana
Ch14 40 scouts=5,760,000 mana
Ch15 40 scouts=6,400,000 mana
Ch16 40 scouts=7,040.000 mana
Ch17 40 scouts=7,680,000 mana
Ch18 40 scouts=8,320,000 mana
Ch19 40 scouts= 8,960,000 mana
Ch20 40 scouts= 9,600,000 mana
Ch21 40 scouts=10,240,000 mana

Total Mana=81,520,000

This doesn't have to be everyone's favorite mana producer but I do think players should give it a look instead of writing it off because someone else said so. I'm going to scout anyway, I might as well get paid.

 

[ajqtrz]

I had this idea that if you had the Enar's produce a "rune shard bar extender" like you can use on your KP bar, it might be worth something. Like, in addition to the broken rune shards, it could produce a broken rune shard bar extender once a week or every two weeks. The bar extender could last a week or whatever. That way you have a way to save the broken rune shards Enar's produces without slowing down it's production because your broken rune shard bar was full at the same time you can absorb more of the lost broken rune shards you get in the rest of the game. Or maybe have Enar's produce just the extender and make it make enough every week so you can keep the bar extended permanently.

AJ

 

[Pheryll]

Ch20 40 scouts= 9,600,000 mana

At chapter 21 the amount of mana offered by a double linked frost carved Christmas tree per day and by a level 30 Enar's per scout is close (using the 640 provinces for entering the chapter), but the scout time is longer than a day even with a fully leveled Scouts' Tavern. So why should I use Enar's for mana, when I can get better mana elsewhere?

 

[Alram]

At chapter 21 the amount of mana offered by a double linked frost carved Christmas tree per day and by a level 30 Enar's per scout is close (using the 640 provinces for entering the chapter), but the scout time is longer than a day even with a fully leveled Scouts' Tavern. So why should I use Enar's for mana, when I can get better mana elsewhere?

I think people who want to "mine" events for buildings they want should do that. I always feel bad for people who miss out on their target buildings due to bad luck or bad timing though.

 

[Henroo]

I'm not an advanced chapter player. I'm looking at building Enar's in chapter 9 and leveling it as soon as possible.

Let me know when you get it built. I can help you quite a bit in that leveling process, since my Khel city is currently sitting on 211 runes for
Enars...

 

[Alram]

Let me know when you get it built. I can help you quite a bit in that leveling process, since my Khel city is currently sitting on 211 runes for
Enars...

I will! Thank you!

 

[Sprite1313]

Just estimating that the average player would get 4-5 Maze collections per day, so once scout times are over 4 days(96 hours) Enars looses ground to the Maze. I don't know when Scout times reach 96 hours. We need someone not overscouted in chapter 19 to tell us scout times.

I was not overscouted at the end of chapter 19 (I had just enough completed provinces to open chapter 20, with only three remaining incomplete). My last scout time was about 4 days, 5 hours. With the advanced scouts from chapter 20, my scout time is now about 3 days, 8 hours. Sorry, I don't remember exactly, but that was pretty close.

 

[Mykan]

Many have looked at other benefits, (one of the simpler ones being raise the broken shard maximum)

The issue is they had planned this when it was introduced, then realised it was too complex to do. So the feature needed to make the wonder workable was never implemented and the closest they came was adding recipes to crafting but that also helped with tournament winnings.

Ok so scouting times are an issue at what time point for Enar? Where is the break-even time, and is there a way to compensate for that, without changing the scout times?

That sounds like pandora's box, this is not the only wonder based on scout times.

Enar's Embassy is not bad. It's a great wonder on its own. The Scouts Tavern sounds great too with reduced scout times+extra goodie boxes. The fact that one helps the other is just a bonus.

In terms of mana I I agree that the wonder is fine. I think the problem is purely the broken shards, as mentioned above it doesn't do what they originally planned but they have never found a decent solution. To make it worse they have provided numerous other sources that can make this redundant. Even if one doesn't do tourneys the windmills that gives broken shards every 24hrs seem to turn up quite often.

Personally I think they have put this is in the too hard basket as trying to change it has so many balance implications.

 

[Henroo]

That sounds like pandora's box, this is not the only wonder based on scout times.

As far as I know, the only other ancient wonder that is directly based on scout times is Tome of Secrets. And Tome is regarded in much the same way as Enar's: that it is good in the early to middle game but becomes much less useful later on when scout times get long.

 

[Smooper]

Broken shards are a broken aspect of gameplay for me. I don't value them. 75% of the shards I earned are unable to be collected. This is an anecdotal statistic. Some of the AW's like ToS and EE are mostly good to dump shards into to create a rune. Place the AW eventually (if you have room) and then tear it down again to use the AW as a dumping ground once again. Broken gameplay for me.

edit: I don't think I correctly explained this. Dump runes into a ToS or similar. As it becomes less successful to get a run to be placed the shards will fill up. Then with 10 shards in the line switch to a AW you are upgrading and create a rune from the shards. Move back to the ToS and continue placing runes and creating shards. Eventually you might have a full ring of runes for the ToS, place it, sell it and then start over. The amount of runes limits you here.

 

[Silver Lady]

@Iyapo
I’m old and don’t sleep well, but I do occasionally miss a pickup. I have other mana producers besides the Maze. But with a L17 Maze the decay rate is down to 5% and in Elementals I have no trouble keeping my mana inventory up at least to 1.5M and that’s been fine so far.

 

[elvenbee]

Enar's Embassy is not bad. It's a great wonder on its own. The Scouts Tavern sounds great too with reduced scout times+extra goodie boxes. The fact that one helps the other is just a bonus.


I can understand why an advanced chapter player would hesitate to build Enars at that late point in the game.
I'm not an advanced chapter player. I'm looking at building Enar's in chapter 9 and leveling it as soon as possible. At level 30, the Enars Embassy ancient wonder power is 400. These numbers are based on scouting and completing the bare minimum of provinces required to move forward in chapters.
completed provinces x AW power = mana per scout.

Ch9. 30 scouts=2,280,000 mana.
Ch10 30 scouts=2,640,000 mana.
Ch11 30 scouts=3,000,000 mana
Ch12 40 scouts=4,480,000 mana
Ch13 40 scouts=5,120,000 mana
Ch14 40 scouts=5,760,000 mana
Ch15 40 scouts=6,400,000 mana
Ch16 40 scouts=7,040.000 mana
Ch17 40 scouts=7,680,000 mana
Ch18 40 scouts=8,320,000 mana
Ch19 40 scouts= 8,960,000 mana
Ch20 40 scouts= 9,600,000 mana

Total Mana=71,280,000

This doesn't have to be everyone's favorite mana producer but I do think players should give it a look instead of writing it off because someone else said so. I'm going to scout anyway, I might as well get paid.

I'm curious how you get that # for Ch 9, when we get Enar's Embassy at the end of Ch9. I'm about 1/3 through Ch10 already and haven't been able to put it down yet because I haven't gotten enough Runes to build it

 

[Alram]

I'm curious how you get that # for Ch 9, when we get Enar's Embassy at the end of Ch9. I'm about 1/3 through Ch10 already and haven't been able to put it down yet because I haven't gotten enough Runes to build it

I wanted to show what is possible with this wonder. I included ch9 because it is possible to build it, get it leveled up and then run the scouts for that chapter. Everyone plays a bit differently and I didn't want to leave anyone out.
I raided my unwanted wonders for shards to build my Enar's.

 

[ajqtrz]

My scout times are over 7 days. I have 737 completed provinces and 13 scouted but incomplete. I have no enars or Scout's Tavern (obviously since I'm only on chapter 19). My Maze is at level 21. Not sure if any of this info helps, but here it is anyway.

AJ

 

[elvenbee]

I wanted to show what is possible with this wonder. I included ch9 because it is possible to build it, get it leveled up and then run the scouts for that chapter. Everyone plays a bit differently and I didn't want to leave anyone out.
I raided my unwanted wonders for shards to build my Enar's.

I'm curious how it's possible to use it for Ch9 Scouts though, when the AW itself is unlocked at the end of Ch9. My only thought is that you unlock it at the end of Ch9 and scout everything for Ch10 after setting down your Enar? In Fely, I'll be entering Ch9 after the FA, so if I could use the Enar to my advantage for it, I would like to