Interesting Psychological Dilemma

[Darielle]

Let me preface this by saying that I am speaking of no one in particular. I would like to get a bigger picture of my own feelings about an incident involving a new player. I was basically an observer. I could have a skewed view of things, and if I do, you would be the ones to tell me.

On Elvenar, people are often very kind. I find so many willing to take zero and one star trades in order to help people out. They have big hearts and they want to help, but at what point does having a big heart end and intimidation or even bullying begin? The problem arises when different people have different styles of play, and one side wants to limit their options. (By the way, touché if you decide to turn this into an argument for the freedom of the gougers … yes, I have thought about the irony here. That's why it's titled a psychological dilemma, lol.)

Ok, I'll get down to specifics. I'm a three-star seller. I have been since day one. I just like offering goods to give people a little help, and since I only offer boosts, it doesn't hurt me to pass a little of that boost onto others (and my boosts are not the ones in huge demand … what I wouldn't give for crystal! But I digress …) I have more fun playing this way, and it makes me feel good. It did even when I was new, and I know lots of new players who feel the same way.

However, I would never force others to my way of thinking. I would never say, "You must do three-star trades or I won't trade with you." To me, that's bullying. It's limiting the choices of other players.

But what about the reverse? What about bigger players who refuse to help little ones, especially new fellowship members who do three star trades? Rather, they "insist" on zero, one or two star? They are mostly mid-late game players with millions of goods. They do it with completely good intentions, but when it's aggressive, isn't that a form of coercion, bullying, or intimidation? They are hurting the people they really want to help with, " my way or the highway" tactics. They are limiting another player's play style and enjoyment of the game, and causing bad feelings when they are trying to do the opposite.

Basically, some people just enjoy offering three star. Why refuse to allow them that enjoyment by punishing them and refusing to take them?

You get my point, so I won't drone on (as I tend to do). Thoughts? Go ahead and rip ... I know there are two sides to this and I'm trying to understand both.

 

[Darielle]

Gotta go, but I'll be back in a while.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I've never been one for cheat codes or even anything P2W, so I personally wouldn't want free goods from anyone (unless it's a second or third city that I'm not playing normally).
For that reason I would never push anyone who didn't want it.

That being said, if they joined under the pretense that they could do x tournament and spire but actually can't, then there aren't many options that'll fix it quickly. "Teach a man to fish..." is great, but 300K T1 to pay for those fishing lessons(upgrades) and the next 2 tournaments is easier.

 

[StarLoad]

I have always been one to share my goods boosted or not with new and just starting with new FS members. I see nothing wrong with giving 25 or 50K of goods in a zero star trades to help one along and ease the pain of the first 4 or 5 chapters. After that it's a case-by-case basis and of course when a Member needs good to do the spire or tourney I would help.

However, if a member needs good and the player offering won't accept a three-star trade and wants to make it less I would go along, as it is their goods you need.

Ed

 

[Alram]

Do you see insisting that people take your 3 star trade as equally coercive?

 

[Iyapo1]

I have yet to meet a player that insisted someone post zero star trades. I have seen players offer to take them, but I have never been in a fellowship with anyone who got pushy about a player refusing help. Usually it's just a..."well just let us know if you change your mind thing" not a "I refuse to take any of your trades if your going to act like that?" thing.

 

[Darielle]

Do you see insisting that people take your 3 star trade as equally coercive?

Only if I did insist, then yes, OF COURSE it would be coercive. I think people are missing the point. I'm not talking about those who offer to make zero star trades ... or even those who encourage such trades. That's not only fine, that's very generous and good. Saying, "post a zero star trade and I'll be happy to take it" is very, very different than saying, "If you don't post a zero star trade, I won't take it even though I have the goods and can help you. I just won't, because I want you to do (insert whatever star here)."

By the same token, the reason this is a dilemma is because I won't take one star trades unless they are from someone I know who really needs the help. So yes, I'm choosing an arbitrary standard.

Edit: I'm sorry if I read too quickly and assumed too much. My son was calling me to watch a show with him, lol. I do appreciate everyone's views here, and it's helping me to understand how I come across sometimes without intent.

 

[Iyapo1]

What about bigger players who refuse to help little ones, especially new fellowship members who do three star trades?

I am trying to imagine a scenario where that could happen. Maybe a player asking for zero star trades constantly who then posts three star trades with other players goods might get snarked at....but that's a different issue.

 

[Darielle]

I have yet to meet a player that insisted someone post zero star trades. I have seen players offer to take them, but I have never been in a fellowship with anyone who got pushy about a player refusing help. Usually it's just a..."well just let us know if you change your mind thing" not a "I refuse to take any of your trades if your going to act like that?" thing.

I have only recently had this dilemma myself. Thank you for understanding the difference.

 

[Darielle]

I am trying to imagine a scenario where that could happen. Maybe a player asking for zero star trades constantly who then posts three star trades with other players goods might get snarked at....but that's a different issue.

Yes, true ... totally different, lol. But you get my meaning, anyway.

 

[Iyapo1]

If you don't post a zero star trade, I won't take it even though I have the goods and can help you. I just won't, because I want you to do (insert whatever star here)."

How about...I have millions of goods and taking 3 star trades from a new player makes me feel bad about me....offering three star trades makes you feel good about you. Great so you offer 3 stars and feel good about you and I wont take them because I dont want to feel bad about me?

 

[Lelanya]

Geez Darielle
I got your point right off, and I want to say, my boot foot is twitching right now. Yes this is a form of intimidation. Is it typical of this player, is this a pattern?

I have some thoughts. Write and inquire why they are forcing a wee player to fit that mold. Politely ask them to stop. Boot them if they don't listen. Keep in close touch with the small player, make sure this doesn't sour them .

You know, one bad apple spoils this batch.

 

[Darielle]

How about...I have millions of goods and taking 3 star trades from a new player makes me feel bad about me....offering three star trades makes you feel good about you. Great so you offer 3 stars and feel good about you and I wont take them because I dont want to feel bad about me?

Now you've hit the crux of my own psychological dilemma. While I feel in my gut that people should help smaller team members, I also feel like a bit of a hypocrite when I don't take into account their feeling bad about the trade. So I guess I'm struggling with my own feelings on this. Do newer players who like to do three star trades have more reason to think they should be taken than people do don't like 3 star trades have reason to withhold them if they're going to make them feel badly? That's my deep dilemma. Am I being unfair or are they?

I think, in the end, that I've come to the conclusion that they have the right to withhold trades, just as the newbie has a right to post whatever trades they like. So "live and let live" should apply to both sides. I can sense that's true, but why do my emotions tell me that I think those big players should still help? Argh ... I'm trying to go all Freudian on this and not doing a very good job.

 

[Darielle]

Geez Darielle
I got your point right off, and I want to say, my boot foot is twitching right now. Yes this is a form of intimidation. Is it typical of this player, is this a pattern?

I have some thoughts. Write and inquire why they are forcing a wee player to fit that mold. Politely ask them to stop. Boot them if they don't listen. Keep in close touch with the small player, make sure this doesn't sour them .

You know, one bad apple spoils this batch.

Thank you, Lelanya. That was my first gut feeling, and in a way, I still feel that. But I'm second guessing myself so much that it's getting to be difficult to know how to react. There are so many issues of infringing on rights ... but then again, everyone has rights.

My gut says to stop people from telling others not to do 3star, and saying that everyone is free to do as they wish. My mind says that by the same token, I must not resent a big player for refusing trades, if they make that player feel bad. So my mind is evolving on this.

(And mea culpa for lumping too many people in that earlier statement. I may have been wrong to even include anyone in it.)

 

[Darielle]

I've never been one for cheat codes or even anything P2W, so I personally wouldn't want free goods from anyone (unless it's a second or third city that I'm not playing normally).
For that reason I would never push anyone who didn't want it.

That being said, if they joined under the pretense that they could do x tournament and spire but actually can't, then there aren't many options that'll fix it quickly. "Teach a man to fish..." is great, but 300K T1 to pay for those fishing lessons(upgrades) and the next 2 tournaments is easier.

That's how I've always felt. Even when I was new, people would offer to do bad trades for me (bad for them, I mean), and I refused because I didn't want to jump ahead like that. It made me feel bad.

The key word here is "push." Offering is great and kindly. Pushing or ordering is not. You've got it right here on your scenario.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Not sure how common it is. but in my Beta fellowship, the rule is that anyone with a score under 10k is free to post zero and 1-star trades, so they can build up some stock and cater more in the tournament or Spire. There have been a couple who never took advantage of that, and while they get reminded by the AM that they can, it is never really pushed. The opposite has happened a couple of times, where a player gets his city score over 10k and keeps posting the zero and 1-star trades and needs reminding of the rules.

And I have never, ever seen anyone get told to not post 3-star trades. That would just be so bizarre.

 

[Nerwa]

Some rambling thoughts:

There's room enough across all the worlds of Elvenar for all different trading styles, and the game is set up so that nobody over ch 1 ought to get stuck in a situation where they have to put up with being coerced. (Making an exception for ch 1 players who are stuck in tiny neighbors & probably haven't found a FS yet.) If your neighborhood isn't working for, you can look for a FS that's more sympatico. If your FS isn't working for you, you can join or start a different FS. Posting trades is by choice, as is accepting posts.

It's true that within any given FS things can feel more constricted - especially if you've invested time & energy into the group. If the FS was clear about expectations when you joined, it's your responsibility to abide by them, negotiate changes, or find a different FS. If someone else in your group isn't abiding by FS norms, then that needs to be worked on - no bullying or coercion. If things can't be worked out, then it's ok to show that person the door (nicely, just saying that the FS isn't a good fit for their playing style.

Personally I think small city players should have leeway to experiment, even if some of their experiments aren't the way most of the FS does things. Expectations can get firmer as they get bigger.

 

[Darielle]

Not sure how common it is. but in my Beta fellowship, the rule is that anyone with a score under 10k is free to post zero and 1-star trades, so they can build up some stock and cater more in the tournament or Spire. There have been a couple who never took advantage of that, and while they get reminded by the AM that they can, it is never really pushed. The opposite has happened a couple of times, where a player gets his city score over 10k and keeps posting the zero and 1-star trades and needs reminding of the rules.

And I have never, ever seen anyone get told to not post 3-star trades. That would just be so bizarre.

Yes, I was kind of shocked when I saw one player tell new players multiple times in different situations not to post 3 star. It seemed bizarre that they would get upset about that. But then again, they probably would think it bizarre to see me getting upset about their getting upset, lol. Just when I think it's a matter of someone wanting to control others and their behaviors, then I have to look twice at myself if I try to control theirs, too. Sigh ... I have a habit of overthinking things and getting nowhere.

 

[Darielle]

Do you see insisting that people take your 3 star trade as equally coercive?

When I first read this, I didn't take time to absorb it. I just rejected it outright since I never "insist." But now that I think more about it, I realize that it's not whether I insist that matters. It's whether people perceive me as insisting when I object to THEIR objection to 3 star trades. Hmm ... that gives me food for thought. Thanks, Alram.

 

[Diellashana]

There are so many good FS out there that this really shouldn't be a problem. My experience transitioning from being a new player was going from worrying about this to having a paradigm shift in understanding.

It just doesn't matter - or shouldn't.

There are caustic people in this game as in every game; Ignore them. It really is easy to rise above all this X-star trade noise by simply joining a fellowship that encourages 0-star trades.

I have no want or need of goods anymore. Transitioning chapter 3 I took advantage of 0-star trades well from my FS. After city building correctly and having a good forbidden ruins event, I am more than self sufficient as a chapter 4 city. I was first to the top of the spire this week using only my own goods to cater. Tournament catering is a joke next to spire - It doesn't even affect me. I may have had a boost of goods from the event but it feels like I'm there.

I have my FS to rely on now if I need them. I see others in my FS struggling at higher chapters. I know I have a long road ahead of me in the future but for now I'm set.

Please, everyone find a FS that is welcoming and without drama. After that one can ignore anything that goes on in the trader.