Moonstone Libraries: Change Scrolls to Supplies

[Iyapo1]

This also avoids anyone from smartly putting up trades minutes before the sweeper comes along.

Would this matter? If they put the sweep after decay?

Including cross trades?

True. T1 buildings would only exist in chapter 1, 2 , 3, and 12.

It would probably have a negative impact on FS participation as trades are a primary draw. Still, it's a lovely thought.

 

[SoggyShorts]

True. T1 buildings would only exist in chapter 1, 2 , 3, and 12.

It would probably have a negative impact on FS participation as trades are a primary draw. Still, it's a lovely thought.

What about longer than 24h? At 36h I would ignore the robot and still use FS members and the global market almost all of the time, but the bot could save me from crappy things like the Moonstone set and from crappy people like the market manipulators.
Sure I'd lose ~10% to decay when I do need the bot, but I can live with that.
Or maybe sentients only get swept 72h after posting BUT 2-star trades decay at [half?] the normal rate!

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Would this matter? If they put the sweep after decay?

True. T1 buildings would only exist in chapter 1, 2 , 3, and 12.

It would probably have a negative impact on FS participation as trades are a primary draw. Still, it's a lovely thought.

yes it would matter, it's already an issue that to few people put goods on the market.
"traders" thrive on this principle, that people look, dont see. think it's not there and pick up the bad 1/0 star trades instead.

If you would clean sweep 2/3 star trades at a fixed time, it would create a moment where there is absolutely nothing on the market thats "worhty" as all wanted decent trades are also taken as a result.

With a lets say hourly sweep of each goods thats older than 24 hours it would mean the bot only takes inbalances in the market but does not grab the wanted and disired trades.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Including cross trades?
Interesting with teleport spells while going through the chapters. Just use the most efficient building and put the other ones away.

you most likely only should pick up 2 and 3* same tier trades.

 

[Darielle]

I'd like to see a bot that takes away all zero and one star trades after an hour ... not by buying them, but just by negating them. That would be enough for all fellowships to help their newer members who are desperate, but it would eliminate gougers from the market, because they would get nothing from their attempts, or at least a lot less accidental clicks.

But I think that's getting off topic to the original post, so getting back on that. I wholeheartedly agree that the spire set MUST be changed, because it sucks sucks sucks for the ones who have those boosts. I'd like to see it give supplies, but it would also be nice to be a plus one boost. Either way is fine. Endless scrolls could be changed to endless tolls, giving coins. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it gives to me, as long as it's not harming someone with that boost (which is not mine).

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'd like to see a bot that takes away all zero and one star trades after an hour ... not by buying them, but just by negating them. That would be enough for all fellowships to help their newer members who are desperate, but it would eliminate gougers from the market, because they would get nothing from their attempts, or at least a lot less accidental clicks.

But I think that's getting off topic to the original post, so getting back on that. I wholeheartedly agree that the spire set MUST be changed, because it sucks sucks sucks for the ones who have those boosts. I'd like to see it give supplies, but it would also be nice to be a plus one boost. Either way is fine. Endless scrolls could be changed to endless tolls, giving coins. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it gives to me, as long as it's not harming someone with that boost (which is not mine).

thats an impossible change,

You can change goods production A1 in A2 as long as the goods are the same.

But you cannot chang A1 into Y, because that can break peoples cities.
if someone has build his/her town around this set and you remove T2 production, then you effectively destroy that peoples game.
If you change scrolls into silk, that person can use the market to change it back to scrolls if he/she wants to.

Changing to a bonus +x fixes the issue but does not break the game as you can always trade back, removing production does and therefore can't be done.

 

[Palavyn]

Sentient is different, because it decays.
Decay is a balancer, is makes sure that any good cannot compound like scrolls does, so an imbalance always stays within limits.
There is no imbalance to infinity but an inbalance with limitations.

I suspect your argument is theoretical, and not based on experience. I play on different worlds, and have cities with different boosts. Here's what I see.

My scrolls-boosted cities don't have much of a problem. I simply don't build very many scroll manufactories. Instead focus on my T1 and T3 boosts and then post cross-tier trades to get crystal and silk. I stockpile and then it's not really a problem for me. Occasionally, I have to do some trades to adjust. Plus, I chose to join fellowships where at least one of my boosts was in demand. So it's not much of an issue for my scroll-boosted cities, although it's not to say it doesn't mess up plenty of other people.

Sentient goods are much more of an issue because you can easily get screwed over on all three tiers. I have one city whose boosts are moonstone, obsidian, and Cosmic. Every one of those is in low demand, with cosmic being the worst, followed by Moonstone. Because sentient goods are constantly required for advancement AND because I can't stockpile, I'm constantly having to waste time posting 3 star trades and then wait, hoping someone will pick them up. On another world, my boosts are Platinum, Ink, and Soap. Every one of those goods is in demand. So when I need stuff, I just go to the trader and there's the stuff I need, often in the form of a 3-star trade. The play experience is totally different, with one being constantly annoying and the other pleasant.

 

[Darielle]

thats an impossible change,

You can change goods production A1 in A2 as long as the goods are the same.

But you cannot chang A1 into Y, because that can break peoples cities.
if someone has build his/her town around this set and you remove T2 production, then you effectively destroy that peoples game.
If you change scrolls into silk, that person can use the market to change it back to scrolls if he/she wants to.

Changing to a bonus +x fixes the issue but does not break the game as you can always trade back, removing production does and therefore can't be done.

Good point. People who created a game based on Inno's offerings should not be penalized. Inno should have never offered it. But that's water under the bridge. The point is, the Moonstone set is destroying the game for those who, through no choice of their own, got stuck with scrolls. So Inno needs to fix it in a way that would not harm their players.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I suspect your argument is theoretical, and not based on experience. I play on different worlds, and have cities with different boosts. Here's what I see.

My scrolls-boosted cities don't have much of a problem. I simply don't build very many scroll manufactories. Instead focus on my T1 and T3 boosts and then post cross-tier trades to get crystal and silk. I stockpile and then it's not really a problem for me. Occasionally, I have to do some trades to adjust. Plus, I chose to join fellowships where at least one of my boosts was in demand. So it's not much of an issue for my scroll-boosted cities, although it's not to say it doesn't mess up plenty of other people.

Sentient goods are much more of an issue because you can easily get screwed over on all three tiers. I have one city whose boosts are moonstone, obsidian, and Cosmic. Every one of those is in low demand, with cosmic being the worst, followed by Moonstone. Because sentient goods are constantly required for advancement AND because I can't stockpile, I'm constantly having to waste time posting 3 star trades and then wait, hoping someone will pick them up. On another world, my boosts are Platinum, Ink, and Soap. Every one of those goods is in demand. So when I need stuff, I just go to the trader and there's the stuff I need, often in the form of a 3-star trade. The play experience is totally different, with one being constantly annoying and the other pleasant.

I quit a city I worked on for about a year because I could not trade away my scrolls. I was contantly openeing my hand pleading with others to help me out, and since I grew fast my hand was becomming bigger and bigger.
It's not just theoretical.

if... and I say if.... you can get away with scrolls as boosted goods, then feel yourself lucky.
And yes each world has it's prevalent goods, and some that are in a oversupply.
I also assume you are talking about established worlds. try playing scrolls on a young world where there is no legacy. you'll be playing a nightmare. because these worlds cannot absorb these inbalances like a old world can. but at a certain point also old worlds will succumb to this issue. it's not a matter of if, but when.

No one tells you to set 3* trades, that treegum decays just as well as moonstone does.
Just post trades and have patience. this is something that's in short of supply at many players.

Thanks to the spire there is outside other parts of the game a constant need of everything.
Moonstone, tree gum? it's seldom for sale in the market where I play, so I post trades and wait, most times it takes pretty fast seldom it takes a bit longer. to many people seem to be afraid that someone else might get "my" trade and do crazy stuff.

On the world I play obsidian is the T5 in demand. and bismut is the only one that is in a real oversupply.

but you know what, no one has a stockpile of 15-20m bismut, and because of that people like myself are in a constant need for bismut.
I also take 2 star trades above 3 star trades. just because I prefer to deal with people who are less impatient. so outside my fellowship I ignore 3* bismut trades as much as possible. not seldom I just clean out the entire market.

I have read an interesting theory, with at least on the new worlds, many scroll players are quitting the game (like I did). as a result in the future this might result in a massive shortage of velvet production. if you make it to that point your scroll boost might turn into a blessing in disguise.

 

[Palavyn]

Moonstone, tree gum? it's seldom for sale in the market where I play, so I post trades and wait, most times it takes pretty fast seldom it takes a bit longer. to many people seem to be afraid that someone else might get "my" trade and do crazy stuff.

On the world I play obsidian is the T5 in demand. and bismut is the only one that is in a real oversupply.

Sounds like you're not boosted in Moonstone, Gum nor Bismuth. That explains why you don't seem to think there's much of a problem with sentient goods. Being Moonstone or Gum and Bismuth boosted is much worse than being scrolls-boosted, which is also bad. At least you understand that it's much more of a problem on the newer worlds.

 

[DeletedUser27062]

@CrazyWizard
eudaemonia already shifted the argument on you. Dont bother. Without real data from Inno nothing you say will have an impact. The conversation will continue until someone says the word fair and. . . Well, personally I still miss Ashrem too much to provide the entertainment.

I'm not really interested in being a dash dog endlessly nodding along with the masses. And I didn't enter the conversation with my heart set on a particular outcome, hankering for an argument as though its a sport but genuinely curious about the problem.

 

[Iyapo1]

I have read an interesting theory, with at least on the new worlds, many scroll players are quitting the game (like I did). as a result in the future this might result in a massive shortage of velvet production. if you make it to that point your scroll boost might turn into a blessing in disguise.

I am in chapter 6 and scroll boosted in 2 out of 3 cities. I have been thinking about dropping my city on Harandar. I cant tourney or spire for nothing if my T2 trades sit. If I can hold on till fairies I can BTG/PT my way to sentients.

I would think that Ink boosted players are also kinda screwed by the set. Ink decays into scrolls?

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

they would have to really fine tune a bot for taking or not taking certain types of trades, there are way to many ways it can be manipulated, fixing the set to rotate to a +1 has been the best idea to rebalance and a lot less likely to get misused

 

[Iyapo1]

they would have to really fine tune a bot for taking or not taking certain types of trades,

Do you really think it would be that hard? Honest question.

Not a programmer just a dabbler, could they just open a city and then set a bot to clear a single type of trade every x# of hours? Would programming in each trade type in be that intense? Maybe, I dont know. It just seems like a pretty simple easily isolated hot fix.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Do you really think it would be that hard? Honest question.

Not at all. Trades already have a built-in timer (that's why they expire) and they already show a ratio.
Having a bot clear 1.00 ratio trades that are XX hours old would be very simple.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

you don't need bots when you can adjust the actual moonstone output to compensate for imbalance of goods, which would be much easier code and doesn't bring in ways to do work arounds that can abuse a bot
the original idea of the thread by kclarke has the right idea adjust the moonstone for the +1 then let the people play

 

[Iyapo1]

the original idea of the thread by kclarke has the right idea adjust the moonstone for the +1 then let the people play

Yeah, but that idea was already kicked up to the devs as the preferred fix. We are just kicking an alternate option.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I would think that Ink boosted players are also kinda screwed by the set. Ink decays into scrolls?

I make ink. You use scrolls to make it, but if allowed to decay you get around double back, so effectively it's the same as having a scroll factory - if it is allowed to decay. However, I place ink trades which are seen by a wider set of people making trading them easier. If those who take the trades use them instead of letting them decay, the cost of making the ink spends 1/2 the amount of scrolls a scroll factory would produce. Thus, it would removed the 1/2 the amount of scrolls made in a factory. I'm sure they aren't all used. If just half are used, the ink does not increase the number of scrolls in circulation. So, as long as I can sell my ink, it doesn't hurt me. I prefer to sell it for velvet since that decays into silk, which I don't make.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Yeah, but that idea was already kicked up to the devs as the preferred fix. We are just kicking an alternate option.

I wasn't all that enthused about scrolls becoming hammers since I make too many of them, but that's my situation, not the world's. This topic is about the scrolls glut due to the Moonstone Set. However, switching it to hammers did get me thinking about the concept in a different way. I have no problem leaving the set working the way it does in the lower chapters since most people won't use a lot of space for the set and they can't produce enough goods to effect the world economy. They are still, and probably more so, hurt by not being able to trade scrolls if it's their boost.

The problem is with the amount produced in the higher chapters. So, instead of the buildings giving tradable goods, Have them give ones that aren't tradable. Let them evolve like the mana plant does. It doesn't produce mana until it's at a level you can. The gum tree could produce seeds and the moonstone gate, unurium. No one is complaining about too much mana or CCs. Yes, there is the complaint about spell frags, but they don't hurt the economy.

If you have the building produce boost+1 you do balance the goods instead of overloading the world with only 1. However, you also reduce the need for trading. You now have 2 goods in the tier and only need to trade for 1 other. I think that would reduce the dependency on others since you would only need to trade for 1 good in that tier. In past post, I've suggested +2 instead of +1, but if there are both +1 and +2 building in the same tier, you can reach the point where no trading at all is needed. In my opinion, that would reduce some of the appeal of this game.

Libraries get kept and upgraded because they offer great rewards.

I'm sure some people upgrade them. Since I keep getting more, I have simply replaced them with new ones and save my RR spells for things like the Winter Stars. Going into ch 17, I sold them all and haven't placed any new ones yet, though. Currently, I have 36 ch 17 and 68 ch 16 in my inventory. Of them 14 are libraries.

 

[Duke00012]

Respectfully, y'all make good points...whatever happened to 'play your own game'?