New Quest Structure

[DeletedUser828]

Why waste your time in a forum over a game if you no longer wish to play? This is a game folks, not a way of life. If you're not going to support your game with the proper amount of buildings to run it , what are you complaining about? I agree with Varron, what do you want Inno to do hand it to you on a silver platter?

I chant as before " Get rid of the blinding zoom and stop the 18 hour build times "

~~~~~ (MissAnthropy merged adjacent posts. Please use the Edit function.)

I still reiterate Bobby that you have to have team work within your fellowship, you need to build goods according to the needs of the members. Every one should be dedicating space to boosted goods only so there is enough supply for the demand. TEAM WORK! You have to rely on your fellowship.

 

[DeletedUser1061]

Why waste your time in a forum over a game if you no longer wish to play? This is a game folks, not a way of life. If you're not going to support your game with the proper amount of buildings to run it , what are you complaining about? I agree with Varron, what do you want Inno to do hand it to you on a silver platter?

I chant as before " Get rid of the blinding zoom and stop the 18 hour build times "

*sigh* Let me say it again...I said I am waiting for the devs to get their heads on straight and if they don't come back to some middle ground then I leave. If I didn't care (like the previous game I played) I wouldn't even be here but I have a desire to see them swing this game back to a happy medium before my 30 days is up and if they don't then I will move on. Their loss not mine but lets hope they see the folly of their ways because if it is left like it is you can wear the rose colored glasses all that you like but people will not play a job they want a game that is fun not like a real time job.

You keep chanting your mantra of team work and just how great, and peachy, everything is in your guild and if that is really true great and I tip my hat to you but for the majority of the players this will never ever be true and besides what Bobby is saying I hold to be more truth than what you are saying for the majority of the players.

 

[DeletedUser828]

I guess you could go ask my Fellowship~ That statement can be true when you have team players who work together in it. I'm sorry but you can't expect to get the results of the game it you don't build accordingly. You simply can not rely on the quests to get what you need from the game. Maybe before the Fellowships started they were a big source of supplies and coins, but that's not true with the fellowship aspect being added. I think too many of the day one players have become to use to playing independently to actually be able to rely on 24 other players to get what you need. And looking at some of those cites, they were bought, not played accordingly. I spend money in this game , but not for the sole purpose of building my entire city with it.
Some points made I agree with, but others that are being spouted are just plain stupid now. Work as a team with your fellowships, be a good leader and team worker. If you don't want to be a team player then I guess this game is probably not for those that are crying about quests. Stop relying on the quests and start relying on your fellowship.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Work as a team with your fellowships, be a good leader and team worker. If you don't want to be a team player then I guess this game is probably not for those that are crying about quests. Stop relying on the quests and start relying on your fellowship.

I don't mind a person having an opinion. But having an ignorant opinion and then being vociferous about it, well, that gets old after a while.

I find it bizarre that you are ranting to me about working within my fellowship for help. I will get right on telling my fellows that we should try relying on each other. Why oh why didn't WE think of that? Attacking me on lack of teamwork? That is hysterical.

I also find it very bizarre that you would criticize relying on quests. Quests are a part of this game. They are just as much a way to collect coins and supplies as are rent and workshops. If you aren't using them, you aren't utilizing all the resources available to you in this game. Of course, not everyone wants to play a game all day every day. It takes a lot of time and effort. If you want to be a casual player, there is nothing wrong with that. Some folks want to play more often. Those quests take a lot of work. I don't know where this super snotty attitude came from towards quests, but it is ubiquitous around the forums and it is illogical and silly. Quests are a part of the parameters of this game and are simply a way to collect resources. If you cut anything that gives you resources in a building game, then production of goods will go down and it will take longer to do things that need goods produced. It isn't that complicated.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well said Princess SaBella, If you work as a team, everyone producing more of their boosted goods and trading for their non boosted goods. Having enough housing for coins and enough workshops for TOOLS, then there really is no problem with the game as far as I can see, Take a looks at the ones fussing the most about the mechanics of the game, They're city isn't what it could be, I find 8 workshops from beginning to the end of the tech tree gives plenty of tool. If you relying on quest to further your progress then you need to rethink your strategy in building a city, I see where they say it messes with the balance of the game to keep skipping quest. Those are just extra perks of the game. If you set aside just enough to finish the 1 day process quest and a few to run the 3 to 9 hrs runs, it can be done. Time and patience I thank you INNO Games for this wonderful game, You do listen to what people are saying, I see that in the changes you've made.

 

[DeletedUser828]

Bobby call me ignorant if you will then, but it takes more than three work shops to furnish supplies in order to support your city. Call me ignorant if I believe you should be relying on your fellowship and team work. Also call me ignorant if the money I choose to spend in the game, I use to enhance my game play not to use it to build my entire city and then complain about it.
What I am seeing is this, if you are being agreed with you're cordial as all get out, but if you are being disagreed with you want to assume someone else's opinion is ignorant. When clearly anyone can see by reading your posts long enough all you are doing is throwing tantrums because you are not getting your way.
You can barely have an opinion when you are not even building your city anywhere near the way it should be built in order for it to sustain itself. I am not the only one who is tiring of all the negativity you are constantly spewing.

So be I am ignorant....but I still say get rid of the blinding zoom....and cut down on the 19 hour build times

 

[DeletedUser1061]

Bobby call me ignorant if you will then, but it takes more than three work shops to furnish supplies in order to support your city. Call me ignorant if I believe you should be relying on your fellowship and team work. Also call me ignorant if the money I choose to spend in the game, I use to enhance my game play not to use it to build my entire city and then complain about it.
What I am seeing is this, if you are being agreed with you're cordial as all get out, but if you are being disagreed with you want to assume someone else's opinion is ignorant. When clearly anyone can see by reading your posts long enough all you are doing is throwing tantrums because you are not getting your way.
You can barely have an opinion when you are not even building your city anywhere near the way it should be built in order for it to sustain itself. I am not the only one who is tiring of all the negativity you are constantly spewing.

So be I am ignorant....but I still say get rid of the blinding zoom....and cut down on the 19 hour build times

How is Bobby being negative when they only point out the facts? I do not believe in facts, or truths, being in the eyes of the perceived because that is hog wash. White and Black and no shades of gray when it concerns the table (the spreadsheet) that was posted.

BobbyKitty said you were ignorant or did you just feel that is what they were saying (if they said that I missed it then)? What I got out of what BobbyKitty was saying is that the people in their guild have a heck of a time now, as does BobbiKitty, and a lot of them just left due to Inno's decision to remove a part of the game in how they liked to play it. They have left the game for good taking the money they would continue to spend, or potentially spend, with them and that no Inno product will they ever play again. If that is negative to you then so be it but those are the facts and they said they found it bizarre, as do I, that relying on a part of the game that was designed to have quests is some how "the wrong way to play". Your "right way" to play seems very arrogant to be honest. What is right for you is wrong for others, and vice versa.

There is an old saying and it goes something like this...one persons heaven is another persons hell and I seriously think this plays with the recent chop job by Inno.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I quit the game until Inno gets their head on right so I am following the forums, as I said before, very closely and when my 30 days is up (when I have no city) I am gone for good. No skin off my teeth either way and I speak from experience about these things and I am here to call out the shills and the rose colored glasses wearers.

 

[DeletedUser1061]

Your point, besides just trolling, was?

 

[DeletedUser43]

1. I am a girl. (I know my name confuses people sometimes. So, just fyi...I am a she...emphasis on the kitty, not the Bobby.

2. Yes, anyone who attacks me and says I am not a good team mate and who doesn't play in my fellowship is ignorant of the facts. I don't know why you get a free pass to attack me for something that you don't know anything about. Why are you jumping all over me? That isn't cool and yes, I am an elf, I won't hit you, but if you hit me, I will hit back.

3. You don't have information as to how our fellowship was playing and how many goods the top players need. So, again, yes, you are ignorant of the facts. I didn't call you an idiot, I called you ignorant. You attacked me for things that you don't have any information about. Once again, you attacked me.

4. You say I am "throwing a tantrum" because I am pointing out that these changes in quests will now make the game slower and then you write "cut down on the 19 hour build times"? What do you think I am "throwing a tantrum" about? As you progress in this game, things only get slower and slower. If you don't like 19 hour build times, you sure won't like it when you need 30,000 granite to get to a copper factory but each granite factory only produces 43 an hour until you can upgrade your portal, but you can't upgrade your portal without copper. Just wait until you see the requirement for more than three THOUSAND knowledge points to do things. You think 19 hours is slow? I am fighting for YOU, you silly goose.

I am fighting for all of the players who found a way to enjoy this game. I am fighting for all the players who were here from the beginning, and who were ready to quit because things took too long. I like this game and I want it to succeed, but it has been hard. The game was too slow and we were losing a ton of people. Hardly anyone was spending any money and a game without people who spend money on it won't last long. I want people to have fun. I want this game to succeed. I can't stand it when business shoot themselves in the foot because they treat their customers poorly. I am fighting for all my friends who have spent money on here and who don't think it is fair that they were sold one type of game with a certain level of speed and then they got that taken away from them and they got a game that wasn't as fun.

Just because the type of city that you have designed wasn't affected by this latest change doesn't mean it won't be the next time they change something. Were you around when they cut the culture bonus by 30%? I was. That sure messed with a whole lot of people too. Each big change seems to take more away from players. Just wait until you see it. I have seen it many times now. Do I think the game will succeed if it keeps making players angry? Of course not. How could it?

Take a looks at the ones fussing the most about the mechanics of the game, They're city isn't what it could be

Again, another person tossing out attacks and being nasty. Go jump in a lake.

If you relying on quest to further your progress then you need to rethink your strategy

Quests are just as much a part of this game as houses are or workshops or culture or fellowships. So what you are saying is, don't rely on the game to play the game? Yeah, ok. Whatever. Isn't it great that the particular strategy you are choosing wasn't messed with this time around? But the principle of taking things from players has been established....and you are fighting for that principle. I won't say what you need to rethink.

PS...and if I got angry over this issue, well, maybe that is because my best friend in this game quit over this latest injustice and I am very sad to see him go.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Pushing the game to its limits is well and good. That's the part that's delightful about playing a city builder.

BUT

When the developers have made it quite clear that abusing the declinable quests has been causing

massive problems in the game's behavior and its balance

then it's time to back off and figure out what they DO have in mind.

For example, if quests didn't exist at all, how would you balance your city without depending on quests?

• You'll always have plenty of cash, because you need workers
• Workshops will alway be your limiting intermediate capability
• Military development is both a resource sink and a trap. It tempts you with quick growth, rather than sustainable growth.
• Manufacturing Goods is a resource sink. Goods are needed, in modest amounts, for unlocking techs and upgrading buildings
• If you've "over done it" with your military and exploring sectors, than you'll need piles and piles of goods for negotiations.
• OR you can set a more leisurely pace and explore various approaches in multiple worlds.

I have no problem, whatever, with pushing any game to its limits, but when a skillful player has found those limits then they should then seek other challenges by using different approaches.

You've made your point regarding the flawed implementation of the declinable quests and the developers have, appropriately, diverted time and resources towards improving that aspect of the game. Congratulations.

Now what?

 

[DeletedUser51]

I generally prefer to let players discuss things without stepping in, but in this case, I think I should probably comment.

We do realize that some players do not like the changes that have been made to the quest system and we do understand that. Unfortunately exploiting repeatable quests became a 'way of life' for some players. They no longer built manufactories and supply buildings, and their cities were no longer able to function independently of quest skipping. That was never the way this game was intended to work. This was meant to be a game where players build fully functional cities and work together in Fellowships to help each other with resources they do not produce themselves.

In the beginning, quests are in place to teach a player about the game, and later they are to guide a player along the research tree. They are meant as a 'bonus' for playing and not as a reliable source of income.

As many of you know, the first iteration of changing the quest structure was to simply limit repeatable quests and leave larger rewards in place. This was never implemented on the live servers as it was too abrupt of a change, so this was the compromise after listening to player feedback - allow players to continue to skip quests but at a lower reward amount.

Again, we do understand that this change is not popular with players who built their games around the quest system, but this system has been and will continue to be modified as the game progresses.

 

[DeletedUser1061]

Kitty, are you talking about when they reduced the 200% culture max? I was reading about that when I started to play and a bunch of posts were angry about that too.

I generally prefer to let players discuss things without stepping in, but in this case, I think I should probably comment.

We do realize that some players do not like the changes that have been made to the quest system and we do understand that. Unfortunately exploiting repeatable quests became a 'way of life' for some players. They no longer built manufactories and supply buildings, and their cities were no longer able to function independently of quest skipping. That was never the way this game was intended to work.

In the beginning, quests are in place to teach a player about the game, and later they are to guide a player along the research tree. They are meant as a 'bonus' for playing and not as a reliable source of income.

As many of you know, the first iteration of changing the quest structure was to simply limit repeatable quests and leave larger rewards in place. This was never implemented on the live servers as it was too abrupt of a change, so this was the compromise after listening to player feedback - allow players to continue to skip quests but at a lower reward amount.

Again, we do understand that this change is not popular with players who built their games around the quest system, but this system has been and will continue to be modified as the game progresses.

I have to call you out on this one because they became exploits only in your eyes. These repeatable quests are not really exploits as it wasn't as if people were able to make a one time quest repeatable using some arcane trick because you implemented the repeatable quests then did an OH POOP those quests are hurting our diamond sells and we have to put a stop to them. How dare these players figure out a legitimate way to circumvent the diamond sink holes we spent so much time implementing. That is what all of your changes are amounting to and has absolutely nothing else to do with anything else regardless what anyone has to say, or dream, these changes were for.

 

[DeletedUser51]

I am simply stating why these changes were made and the reasoning behind them for players who wanted an explanation. I have no intention of debating this issue as the changes are already in effect.

Players who are upset by this are going to continue to be.

 

[DeletedUser1061]

I am simply stating why these changes were made and the reasoning behind them for players who wanted an explanation. I have no intention of debating this issue as the changes are already in effect.

Players who are upset by this are going to continue to be.

Fair enough though I was hoping you would just come out and say it was hurting your diamond sells, and if I had heard you admit that I would say I don't like it but I can respect you for your honesty.

No longer upset about it and no need to discuss it I was just hoping is all.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Alchy you're like The Phantom of Elvenar at this point.

They no longer built manufactories and supply buildings, and their cities were no longer able to function independently of quest skipping. That was never the way this game was intended to work. This was meant to be a game where players build fully functional cities and work together in Fellowships to help each other with resources they do not produce themselves.

The game was imbalanced. Top players had just a few, and sometimes no workshops, yet maintained cities with incredibly high levels of production. Bobbikitty and a few others have their beef with the system, and I'm sure it's a drag being in their position because they are stuck at the top with no other avenues to explore-- but for the rest of us somewhere in the middle--the quests were simply too generous. Seriously- 1500 of each non-boosted good per/24hr cycle. Enough supply to run the cities in the top 10 with few or no workshops..,etc etc..
The repeating quests are still there. They can certainly be tweaked but they're not too bad for anyone except the top players who need a gazzillion everything to advance. If you had continued building your city on Fel or Aryn you would have a decent size city now.
Right now I have 3 cities going. I continue to climb in rank in all three. I've used diamonds to unlock builders on my main cities. I've bought a culture building if i liked it's looks, I've bought expansions if i really wanted them. All things I chose to spend money on, and none necessary to play.

 

[DeletedUser828]

I never attacked anyone, nor was I rude. I stated what I was seeing. Life changes and so do games. We can choose to sit and cry about it, or we can pull our little girl panties up and get on with it. Those that follow the forums are tired of the same old song and dance, always from the same people. Turiel Maryann did not say one thing wrong or cross and you choose to put her down too and be rude to her Bobbi, that was uncalled for. You're pouting and being childlike now because not everyone is jumping on your band wagon.
Not everyone will agree with all you say. I do agree with some of the things you say, but enough is enough when you come out here and start putting people down because they have opinions that differ from yours.
It's odd I can run my city and not depend fully on the quests, function on 100% culture most of time and I manage to have enough coins and supplies to run my city.

 

[DeletedUser]

A jump in the lake is refreshing, Building a city with the right balance is good management, Buying culture with diamonds is a fun perk to make the city beautiful. Being happy with that city is refreshing too. Doing quest can be a challenge, I'm always up for a good challenge. Smart cookies prevail.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Aelfwine,

Obviously what Dark Alchy said is true. The devs didn't like that people found out a way to play this game and have a lot of fun without buying diamonds. Thing is, we debated this in beta from the beginning. Before this game was live, we all talked about this issue openly and honestly in the beta forums. No one was ever doing anything on the sly. We were told the game was working just fine thank you. Ok.....sure, whatever. Then they go live.

Once they DID go live, they were selling a product. They sold people one thing. They baited people with one type of game. They sold a game with a certain amount of ingame benefits to the player. They sold it, and people bought it. Then they switched it.

Inno started taking away many of the fun things that this game offered because they didn't like the deal they had made. That is my problem.

It makes us all wonder what they are going to take away next if they don't make enough money. It doesn't matter what they change, or how it affects your city, this is a game, not real life, we can play by any parameters, but does matter is they they SOLD people one thing and now they are DELIVERING something else.

What if I buy a new Toyota with leather seats but before it is delivered Toyota decides they want more money for that car, so they are going to deliver it with cloth seats and if I want, they will graciously allow me to get leather seats if I pay them more? I would have been fine if the car cost more in the first place, then I can decide if I want to purchase it or not, but once I have paid for something and agreed to the deal, they can't renege on it.

I would also have been a whole lot happier if they had said to everyone...Oh hey, we realized we made a big mistake! We are so sorry. We simply can't continue with this game the way it is or we won't have a game to offer. As a result of our error, we have no choice but to reduce side quests. However, since it was our error, we would like to make it up to everyone by giving them an extra builder, or 1000 diamonds or something. That, I would have respected and I would have been fine with. After all, it is THEIR error. Give the bonus to all players currently playing. That would be fair.

But this going around and planting seeds and indirectly blaming the players for being very good at playing, well, that isn't ok at all, and that is what I will continue to rail against. The consumers of this product are in no way to blame for any situation the company finds itself in. It isn't the player's fault that they chose to play this game any way they chose to play it.

Again, we do understand that this change is not popular with players who built their games around the quest system, but this system has been and will continue to be modified as the game progresses.

I bet it will.

Look...I don't care what rules you set for the game, but be consistent and stop baiting players with one game and then switching it for another. That isn't ok. This isn't beta. You HAVE beta testers. You had all the time you wanted to monkey around with the game before you sold it to people as a non beta game. You are selling this game as a non-beta game. Yet, you are treating players like it is beta. How is that kosher? But if you do make further mistakes going forward, then make amends for them! Saying "I'm sorry" isn't making amends (though around here we don't even get an apololgy). Any child in kindergarten knows you should make up for own mistakes.

That was never the way this game was intended to work.

That is on you. You wrote the code.

Merged posts per Forum posting rules.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Catching up on the recent discussion above, I'm thinking...

Skipping quests doesn't necessarily lead to imbalance. I defy anyone to look at my city and find imbalance. It is, in fact, singularly well-balanced because I developed my basic, crafted and magical goods in a 3:2:1 ratio (which is loosely the ratio of goods required for upgrades and negotiations). And I have 8 workshops at top level.

I skipped quests all the time - so where's the imbalance created? Katwijk's quote, that skipping "creates massive problems in the game's behavior and balance". Interesting. Where exactly is the game demonstrating problematic behavior or balance? None of the users I know are experiencing these problems. Anyone have an example to share? Yes, some of our fellowships need to adjust goods production on a need/supply basis - but this is certainly no business of the developers. In fact, given their statements, they want us to learn how to manage our communities. So...what behavior problems could they possibly be referring to?

The first clue to answering the question is to look at their proposed solution. They didn't eliminate skipping / declining. They just made it unrewarding / impossible for players to do so for hours on end. So, it's not the skipping (since we've already shown that this doesn't negatively affect play)...it's the players who want to be online playing at will. The focus of the current changes has been directly aimed at eliminating a player's ability to play more than for a few minutes every three hours. This seeming concern for "game behavior and balance" isn't on behalf of gamers, to improve the game experience for us. It's just a way to minimize server activity. I think that's the "balance and behavior" they want to correct - the imbalance of not wanting to give us what they initially offered us.


For those of you who reviewed the top players and had some questions / concerns about their cities....I would agree that some of the top players gravitated to magical goods rather than keeping all three types...but who is responsible for this? Inno. Players got to the top and waited...and waited..and waited. The only methodology for raising scores then was to better utilize the available grid, and produce goods that could be traded to lower level players. At that point, they didn't need workshops - they all had massive numbers of neighbors for coins/supplies. Keep in mind that this was the only valid play strategy for months! Original players loyally remained in the game, waiting for the next stage of development to be offered. Now that the game is moving forward, it's important to note that none of these players are complaining about the need to rebuild workshops or rebalance the city. I repeat: they are NOT complaining about the need to make adjustments for the next stage of the game - even though Inno didn't give them a heads up or any consideration during the lengthy wait time. No, we're complaining that Inno, after creating the above scenario in the first place, further penalized its top players by removing the means for them to make the transition to new play. (i.e. flipping to earn the needed coins/supplies).

Next: the new quests don't discourage skipping...they just encourage it in a different way. The best example of this is the new 24-hour quest. At face value it's a useless quest - since only the most casual player is going to set a L15+ manufactory on a 24-hour run. Clearly, this is either an intentionally useless quest, or it's intended to be used creatively. Many of us are being creative: building large numbers of L1's, setting them for 24-hour productions, then flipping to get the bonuses as they become available. In my opinion, Inno couldn't have imagined any other possible use for such a quest. This quest makes it clear that Inno doesn't really have a problem with skipping...their actions don't match up with their words. (I do hate mentioning that this quest is useful...let's see how fast they delete it now that we like it).

I mean, who really doesn't skip quests? If a residence upgrade is ready to complete - don't you scroll through the declinables to find a matching quest? If you're ready to collect planks, don't you scroll through to find a matching quest?

The next ridiculous statement quoted above is that quests are intended for "guidance and to teach how to develop your economy". OMG, doesn't anyone else here get tired of being taken for idiots? Yes, in the very beginning, declinables can remind us to do certain tasks and not neglect anything which might halt our development. After that, neither the storyline quests nor the declinables provide helpful guidance nor teaching. First point, the Knowledge Tree provides mandatory progression through the game. One can't go very far astray - the tree won't let us. Secondly, probably some of the storyline quests are helpful. But some are straight-out obstructions. I'm sure you can recall mandatory quests that weren't helpful. Like all those culture mammoths which are required, but don't necessarily fit into one's game plan? Yippee - building and immediately deleting are just outstanding development skills. Also, immediately after researching the copper mine, what's the first storyline quest? Tie up your mine with a 48-hour production run! Oh yes, how very educational. And third, apparently it's developmentally helpful to my economy to NOT skip quests? But if I follow the quests in the order they appear, I'll either leave my manufactured goods sitting uncollected while I wait for the declinable quest to come around in hours / days, or I'll just collect them and forego the bonus. Neither of which develops my economy, but oh well, I guess playing stupidly is the end result of Inno's "guidance and teaching".

It's easy to listen to well-spoken words and be soothed...but can anyone give me concrete example of how following the declinable quests in order, without skipping, is helpful in producing the "flourishing city" Inno advertises?

Lastly, as to Katwijk's helpful quotes - I really love these. A "strategy MMO"....hmm, no mention of a "log on and mostly do nothing MMO". In fact, we're supposed to be building, exploring and fighting...all in order to create a flourishing city. Wow. Sounds like a pretty active game - lots of verbs: Building...Exploring...Fighting...Creating.

Inno, please let me get back to my "main task of creating a flourishing city". Yes, you've delivered on the "...colorful lush environment" - now we want TASKS. Deliver on your advertising.

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