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    Your Elvenar Team

New Quest Structure

DeletedUser1061

Guest
bobbi, on one of the first two worlds I played on I had a non declinable quest to advance my marble production. It sat there for a month because #1 I did not have the room for it and #2 it would force me to build a production building for a goods I had no boosts in. A lot of the quests are random like that in the declinable ones too. I had one that was asking for a 24h production from a tier 2 good that I had no boosts in either so I never built it. That was two quests that was nudging me into making, and using, two different goods I had no boosts for so rather stupid if you ask me BUT that may be what they wanted us to do. *shrug*
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
You know, the non declinable quest to build non boosted factories was the most complained about thread ever in the beta forums. I still don't know why it is there.
 

DeletedUser1061

Guest
You know, the non declinable quest to build non boosted factories was the most complained about thread ever in the beta forums. I still don't know why it is there.
Now that I did not know as I never was in Beta but yeah, it is still sitting there (I can't remember which world but it is there on A or W but I think it is A) because I refuse to build something I don't have any boosts for just to advance the non declinable quest and I bet more would come like that if I did it. No thanks.
 

DeletedUser933

Guest
Catching up on the recent discussion above, I'm thinking...

Skipping quests doesn't necessarily lead to imbalance. I defy anyone to look at my city and find imbalance. It is, in fact, singularly well-balanced because I developed my basic, crafted and magical goods in a 3:2:1 ratio (which is loosely the ratio of goods required for upgrades and negotiations). And I have 8 workshops at top level.

I skipped quests all the time - so where's the imbalance created? Katwijk's quote, that skipping "creates massive problems in the game's behavior and balance". Interesting. Where exactly is the game demonstrating problematic behavior or balance? None of the users I know are experiencing these problems. Anyone have an example to share? Yes, some of our fellowships need to adjust goods production on a need/supply basis - but this is certainly no business of the developers. In fact, given their statements, they want us to learn how to manage our communities. So...what behavior problems could they possibly be referring to?

The first clue to answering the question is to look at their proposed solution. They didn't eliminate skipping / declining. They just made it unrewarding / impossible for players to do so for hours on end. So, it's not the skipping (since we've already shown that this doesn't negatively affect play)...it's the players who want to be online playing at will. The focus of the current changes has been directly aimed at eliminating a player's ability to play more than for a few minutes every three hours. This seeming concern for "game behavior and balance" isn't on behalf of gamers, to improve the game experience for us. It's just a way to minimize server activity. I think that's the "balance and behavior" they want to correct - the imbalance of not wanting to give us what they initially offered us.


For those of you who reviewed the top players and had some questions / concerns about their cities....I would agree that some of the top players gravitated to magical goods rather than keeping all three types...but who is responsible for this? Inno. Players got to the top and waited...and waited..and waited. The only methodology for raising scores then was to better utilize the available grid, and produce goods that could be traded to lower level players. At that point, they didn't need workshops - they all had massive numbers of neighbors for coins/supplies. Keep in mind that this was the only valid play strategy for months! Original players loyally remained in the game, waiting for the next stage of development to be offered. Now that the game is moving forward, it's important to note that none of these players are complaining about the need to rebuild workshops or rebalance the city. I repeat: they are NOT complaining about the need to make adjustments for the next stage of the game - even though Inno didn't give them a heads up or any consideration during the lengthy wait time. No, we're complaining that Inno, after creating the above scenario in the first place, further penalized its top players by removing the means for them to make the transition to new play. (i.e. flipping to earn the needed coins/supplies).

Next: the new quests don't discourage skipping...they just encourage it in a different way. The best example of this is the new 24-hour quest. At face value it's a useless quest - since only the most casual player is going to set a L15+ manufactory on a 24-hour run. Clearly, this is either an intentionally useless quest, or it's intended to be used creatively. Many of us are being creative: building large numbers of L1's, setting them for 24-hour productions, then flipping to get the bonuses as they become available. In my opinion, Inno couldn't have imagined any other possible use for such a quest. This quest makes it clear that Inno doesn't really have a problem with skipping...their actions don't match up with their words. (I do hate mentioning that this quest is useful...let's see how fast they delete it now that we like it).

I mean, who really doesn't skip quests? If a residence upgrade is ready to complete - don't you scroll through the declinables to find a matching quest? If you're ready to collect planks, don't you scroll through to find a matching quest?

The next ridiculous statement quoted above is that quests are intended for "guidance and to teach how to develop your economy". OMG, doesn't anyone else here get tired of being taken for idiots? Yes, in the very beginning, declinables can remind us to do certain tasks and not neglect anything which might halt our development. After that, neither the storyline quests nor the declinables provide helpful guidance nor teaching. First point, the Knowledge Tree provides mandatory progression through the game. One can't go very far astray - the tree won't let us. Secondly, probably some of the storyline quests are helpful. But some are straight-out obstructions. I'm sure you can recall mandatory quests that weren't helpful. Like all those culture mammoths which are required, but don't necessarily fit into one's game plan? Yippee - building and immediately deleting are just outstanding development skills. Also, immediately after researching the copper mine, what's the first storyline quest? Tie up your mine with a 48-hour production run! Oh yes, how very educational. And third, apparently it's developmentally helpful to my economy to NOT skip quests? But if I follow the quests in the order they appear, I'll either leave my manufactured goods sitting uncollected while I wait for the declinable quest to come around in hours / days, or I'll just collect them and forego the bonus. Neither of which develops my economy, but oh well, I guess playing stupidly is the end result of Inno's "guidance and teaching".

It's easy to listen to well-spoken words and be soothed...but can anyone give me concrete example of how following the declinable quests in order, without skipping, is helpful in producing the "flourishing city" Inno advertises?

Lastly, as to Katwijk's helpful quotes - I really love these. A "strategy MMO"....hmm, no mention of a "log on and mostly do nothing MMO". In fact, we're supposed to be building, exploring and fighting...all in order to create a flourishing city. Wow. Sounds like a pretty active game - lots of verbs: Building...Exploring...Fighting...Creating.

Inno, please let me get back to my "main task of creating a flourishing city". Yes, you've delivered on the "...colorful lush environment" - now we want TASKS. Deliver on your advertising.

`
My problem is the games math. Declinable quest for first scction of Chapter 6 calls for collect 200,000 coins. My residences are at 20,000. It takes 13 residences before quest is satisfied. Hey people 13 x 20.000 is 260,000. Who taught you math?
 

DeletedUser933

Guest
Just wait. You will find out what I am talking about. When you need 33,000 tier 3 goods to get through a province. When you realize that fighting is simply not going to work and negotiating is the only way to get through a province. When you need 4200 tier 3 goods to get through a tech. When you need 3300 KP to get through the Advanced Wonders that is coming. No, that is not a typo. 3300.

I play in the beta game and I play in the top fellowship here. I know how many goods we have all been using and I know how many we now have. Things will still get done, but they will get done a lot slower. Things that took 3 weeks will now take 6 months. Unless you pay.

I guess this is changing to a model where only pay players can compete. And the players who have already paid a lot of money will have to keep paying a whole lot more if they want to keep competing. And once you have paid a whole more you will have to pay a whole lot more than that....etc etc. Too bad.

It was so much fun before. :(
I agree to a point. They should have been up front that they want players that pay big money to play their game. That is what the changes that they have made in the newer versions have done. When you could play the GAME just for enjoyment, it was more fun. It has become a game for the rich with the new changes.
 

jas77mess

New Member
ive actually not had much of a problem with the supplies and coins as of yet. my issue has more not having enough goods. but heres my question: how do neighbors help keep the number of culture buildings you need down?
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
how do neighbors help keep the number of culture buildings you need down?
If someone visits your city, and buffs a cultural building, it's then TWICE as effective for the next 8 hours.

Ir you have cultivated reliable visitors, staggered throughout the day, you'll only need half as many Cultural Buildings.
 

DeletedUser933

Guest
In my opinion the changes that are being made in quests should have been hammered out in BETA. I have only been playing since early August and every two weeks it seems that they reinvent the rules. These changes were not part of the original theme of the game. No where can one read that in two weeks what we want now will change. If they keep it up I see a big international class action suit being made. Unfortunately then there will be no Elvenar, and posibly no Innogames. I see that many of the top players have purchased diamonds to support their citys. Eventually they will be asking for their money that they spent back in a law suit. Then we all suffer.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
Scroll down to the bottom of the login page and click on the legalize under Terms and Conditions.
Claims for damages for the violation of important contractual obligations are limited to damage typical and foreseeable for contracts, provided there is willful intent or gross negligence, or a liability exists from culpable violation of life, body or health, or from the express guarantee of condition and quality, or from product liability.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
You should have no illusions as to what you are buying. You are buying temporary entertainment. You have no guarantee that the game will even be here tomorrow. You agree to that when you buy anything here. They can do anything they want to the game. Anything. If you don't like that deal, don't buy diamonds.

  1. 7.3 We reserve the right to discontinue the operation of the Games or parts thereof without giving reasons.

(I don't like that deal, so I don't buy diamonds).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

Guest
You should have no illusions as to what you are buying. You are buying temporary entertainment. You have no guarantee that the game will even be here tomorrow. You agree to that when you buy anything here. They can do anything they want to the game. Anything. If you don't like that deal, don't buy diamonds.

  1. 7.3 We reserve the right to discontinue the operation of the Games or parts thereof without giving reasons.

(I don't like that deal, so I don't buy diamonds).
Ah, I should retreat back into single player RPGs, as you got what you paid for, and often more, besides.
 

DeletedUser1053

Guest
I am not a big fan of the changes to the quest system. However, I can slightly modify what I do to continue with little disruption. I can see how this might be difficult for people who are already at an advanced place in the game. I really think some of the ways to make the modifications to the quests negligible is to increase the sphere of influence we have for trading (by a lot), and to increase the number of people in a fellowship. If we had 50, or 100 people max in a fellowship, then I think this would allow for much more interaction.

To me, the changes they made to the quests 'can' be for the best in the long run, but without the ability of more interaction with others (a major way of getting people to stay with a game) then I have trouble seeing the long-term viability of the game. I know they have hinted at more interaction. I hope that comes very early in the game for players. Having only 24 people max that you can interact with real-time is incredibly frustrating to me. I play, and have played many games that take a lot of patience. This one currently has the least interaction.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
If someone visits your city, and buffs a cultural building, it's then TWICE as effective for the next 8 hours.

Ir you have cultivated reliable visitors, staggered throughout the day, you'll only need half as many Cultural Buildings.
Has anyone ever tried this and succeeded? Reduce the amount of space committed to culture due to NH.
What happens when you go minus?
Our fellowship has a majority play out of the eastern time zone and vary greatly in the amount of activity. The best you could hope for is erratic boosts that do not result in a production bonus which means they are worthless.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
I haven't bothered to have more than the absolute bare minimum of culture for 6 months now. Yes, going negative happens and when it does, regardless of NH, you can't build anything until you are positive again.

Yes, the staggered play times of everyone has always been a big flaw in the NH system. We have all made a lot of suggestions about it, including the time starts when YOU visit your neighbors instead of when they visit you. I don't think Inno wants to make it easy on us to get culture because they want us to spend a lot of money on diamond buildings.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
Has anyone ever tried this and succeeded? Reduce the amount of space committed to culture due to NH.
What happens when you go minus?
Our fellowship has a majority play out of the eastern time zone and vary greatly in the amount of activity. The best you could hope for is erratic boosts that do not result in a production bonus which means they are worthless.


The first suggestion I made when entering a fellowship was to divide players into 3 shifts, and generally agree to polish near the beginning of whichever shift was most convenient for us. I nearly got kicked out...definitely got , booed.

But it really wouldn't be all that difficult. If a player has large culture building, polishing can make a big difference. I only need 5 polishes to bump me from 100 to 125%...yet it only happens about once every other evening...

Supplies 1) are increasingly difficult to get and 2) a GREAT dissipation of productivity because they use so little population per grid space (we wouldn't object to building them if they didn't score so poorly). Any methodology you can find within a fellowship that encourages or even requires players to do NH will only benefit you.
 

DeletedUser933

Guest
When the new Fairies race came in they really messed up the declinable quest I reported this on Facebook and the modirator said that they were aware and were working on it. Tech told me to delete my Dwarvian Portal but still have Dwarvian quest up. Total quests at 50 now and a lot of duplication, except some that I would use there is only one. It has been a week how much longer do we have to wait?
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
It has been more than 2 weeks on beta and we are still waiting for major fixes. People's cities are disappearing. Barracks are broken. We can't get expansions. And of course we have the same quest issues too that you reported. Things are dream over here in comparison.
 
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