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News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

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Zoof

Well-Known Member
With the KP adjustments mentioned in the prior posts, making chapter 5 the new chapter 3 would be about

Ok. I wanted to assert that it wouldn't be that much slower to reach tournament and spire with the reduced KP cost, but there was that niggling feeling that wouldn't go away, so I went back to the spreadsheet and crunched some numbers. Here's the result of the scratch work done on my trusty Notepad.exe and desktop graphing calculator:

Code:
old 178+709+55 = 942 to reach spire. tournament already unlocked.
new 155+275+569+321 = 1320 to reach tournament
new 1320+406+238 = 1964 to reach spire from scratch

Since tournament is, to quote a statement made a while ago that I can't find, "an important source of KP", this just stifles things even further. Not entirely sure what to say.

EDIT: The numbers were arrived at by going down the list adding things up. Sure, things won't be exactly like that due to the shape of the research tree, but the difference being expressible by more than a factor of two? This doesn't look good.
 

DeletedUser30612

Guest
There are new quests with rewards that gives a fair amount of goods for new players with the new tech tree. I think it’ll eliminate some of the large unfair trades that happen in the beginning to get newbies started.

All anyone is looking at is when tournaments and spire unlock and nothing else. It’s a pain to level up your factories from level 3 to 4 for new players you need a couple of days or so just to gather the goods and wait on trades.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I guess I will need to rethink taking on new players and offering them 8-1 trades in the first 4 chapters when there will be a higher likelihood of them hitting the tournament & spire and deciding to quit because the game changes too much.

My Beta fellowship does those trades for new members/cities until their score reaches 10k points. What chapter that is will vary by play style being used, but that cut off has worked pretty well for us.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
My Beta fellowship does those trades for new members/cities until their score reaches 10k points. What chapter that is will vary by play style being used, but that cut off has worked pretty well for us.

Either way, I’m still thinking with these changes I’m not sure investing in new player after new player just to have them quit because the game changes so much is a good thing. It was sad to stop doing direct joining and now it looks like just another drawback to have a revolving door of new players.
 

DeletedUser30612

Guest
At the moment everyone who is testing the new tech tree is stalled at wherever they were at Thursday night or Friday morning if they were lucky to be up before the huge bug went into affect. It took me less than week to reach chapter 3 that’s without putting down the barracks and needing to ignore the quests in both of the previous chapters until I got to advanced scouts and I could cycle through them.
Honestly, nothing changed really with fellowships and their opinion on new players.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I think that is one of the worst changes I can think of for new players. Both are integral parts of the game and Fellowship participation now so I think it is really dumb to make this change! I guess I will need to rethink taking on new players and offering them 8-1 trades in the first 4 chapters when there will be a higher likelihood of them hitting the tournament & spire and deciding to quit because the game changes too much.

New people wont be able to join fellowships until they unlock the tech (which also means no tournament ether before FS and tourny tech)

All anyone is looking at is when tournaments and spire unlock and nothing else. It’s a pain to level up your factories from level 3 to 4 for new players you need a couple of days or so just to gather the goods and wait on trades.

I have played a lot of new towns and never experienced this. Actually have a new (3 weeks or so) one currently and working towards lvl 8 factory. Is this an issue with a specific race? There are a lot of factors that could lead to this:
  • building unboosted factories
  • not building enough factories
  • Not using army so having to cater everything
  • wasting resources on scouting expensive provinces
  • Scouting approach
  • Poor neighbourhood (less of an issue nowadays)
  • Poor fellowship
  • Not using rotating quests (when available)
Resource and space management is at its most critical in early chapters, it gets much easier as your space increases.

Some of the changes in the tech tree (and I can only hope quests) will help bring new people better into the game and its varying aspects. An overhaul of the start of the game has been deseperately needed, hopefully they have solved some fo the glaring issues
 

DeletedUser30612

Guest
I keep hearing that inno is trying end push accounts there new chapter quests and optional quests should take care of the need for beginners to get zero star from a neighbor or a fellowship member.

the tech tree as moved the tier 2 and tier 3 manufacturing research up in the chapter research.
 

Tehya1

Well-Known Member
I keep hearing that inno is trying end push accounts there new chapter quests and optional quests should take care of the need for beginners to get zero star from a neighbor or a fellowship member.
This won't stop fs from wanting smaller players to post uneven trades for the good of the fs, ie, to get to spire and tourney even quicker, and then to do well in both. I have an AM who encourages small players to post 8:1 trades so they can grow fast and top the spire. Knowing this guy, I don't think the changes will change his attitude.

I do hope the changes are better in general than they sound.
 

DeletedUser30612

Guest
I only posted a few trades in chapter 1 for goods due to being blocked from the questline with doing no barracks nd then I got a bunch goods from cycling through the optional quests once I reached chapter 2. So far, no unfair trades needed to allow me to continue at a fast pace. I’m currently, prevent in doing anything but upgrading since Friday due to the big bad tech tree bug issue that’s not resolved yet.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
Honestly, nothing changed really with fellowships and their opinion on new players.
Surely it's too soon to determine the effects of new players on fellowships considering the changes have only been tested for a couple of weeks max.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
I keep hearing that inno is trying end push accounts there new chapter quests and optional quests should take care of the need for beginners to get zero star from a neighbor or a fellowship member.

the tech tree as moved the tier 2 and tier 3 manufacturing research up in the chapter research.
I dont think that will change anything. It will still be a lot cheaper to zero trade ch 5 cities for spire and tourney than just have big cities

If the goal is to prevent tiny city farms that are doing 15-25 tents in tourneys then why not just cap provinces? 9 tents max for cities under ch 5, 15 tents for ch 6, 7 and unlimited for 8 and beyond. You could do the same with the spire; first floor unlocks at ch 3, 2nd floor at ch 5, full Spire unlocked at ch 7 or 8. That would still give small cities access to resources they need whilst making them useless for exploitation.
 
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DeletedUser27062

Guest
Some of the changes in the tech tree (and I can only hope quests) will help bring new people better into the game and its varying aspects. An overhaul of the start of the game has been deseperately needed, hopefully they have solved some fo the glaring issues

How do you foresee that these changes will improve the early game experience?
 

tiG23

Active Member
[QUOTE="Eudaemonia, post: 253127, member: 27062"

If the goal is to prevent tiny city farms that are doing 15-25 tents in tourneys then why not just cap provinces? 9 tents max for cities under ch 5, 15 tents for ch 6, 7 and unlimited for 8 and beyond. You could do the same with the spire; first floor unlocks at ch 3, 2nd floor at ch 5, full Spire unlocked at ch 7 or 8. That would still give small cities access to resources they need whilst making them useless for exploitation.
[/QUOTE]
No please. I have a chapter 4 that I play as much as my bigger city. As long as I play full on, but stay where I am, why should I be punished?
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
How do you foresee that these changes will improve the early game experience?
I have just glanced at the KP requirements it looks like the early chapter cities will reach needed upgrades(manufactory, SS upgrades, troop types, advanced scouts) reducing the cost of scouting and improve a players ability to clear provinces faster without hitting the current early game "overscouting" pinch point. That is an improvement.

I still dont think anything makes up for delayed spire access.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
I have just glanced at the KP requirements it looks like the early chapter cities will reach needed upgrades(manufactory, SS upgrades, troop types, advanced scouts) reducing the cost of scouting and improve a players ability to clear provinces faster without hitting the current early game "overscouting" pinch point. That is an improvement.

I still dont think anything makes up for delayed spire access.
I think without tourney for relics players will overscout more in order to increase their production boost.
It seems like the cure is worse than the illness.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
i do hope that cities already playing will be grandfathered in?
We've been told existing cities will be exempt from the changes.
That term, "grandfathering in", is racially loaded... exempt works.
 
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Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I think without tourney for relics players will overscout more in order to increase their production boost.
It seems like the cure is worse than the illness.
I agree, this will cause new players to scout more. You say that like it is a bad thing! More KP, more expansions, more relics! The changes look like an attempt to ease up on the early chapter province clearing pinch point. That is a good thing.

I am still grumbling over the Sipre delay...ick
 
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