Orc Planning

[DeletedUser627]

In keeping with the theme of "Orcs", there are some nasty surprises to keep in mind when planning for this new race.

• The Temple of Seeds has been significantly undercut (already). It yielded 225 culture / grid, and the new premium culture (unnamed in Wiki) yields 300 / grid.
• Non-premium culture increase is niggardly. Ponds yield 123/grid, and the new non-premium is 145/grid. This is an 18% increase, scant when compared to the 28% increase from Dwarven Temples to Fairy Ponds
• Each essential Armory upgrades will cost about 650 population, 1800 culture, and 7 grid spaces. Since Orcs are mandatory, this is a primary design factor for the race. The training size increases from 48 to 87. This means that 2 Orc Armories will do the work of 3 Fairy ones - so the number of Armories we want will depend on how many Orcs we need.
• The new shape of Residences means that your streets will have to be re-oriented. Unfortunately, it's a massive re-working with precious little reward. Remember how difficult it was to gain the population required for Fairy upgrades? We had an 18% increase per grid, and still struggled to upgrade. The Orc population increase is only 1% over Fairy
• The T3 Magical Goods aren't in the Wiki yet. I think they're the same size.

I haven't played Orcs in Beta, so if any of you already have, please add your experience! Especially if you find any reason for encouragement - the combination of ugly buildings and increased pressure to purchase premium buildings precludes excitement on my part.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The orc population increase is actually a decrease for the first upgrade....a pretty big one. You lose 6 population per square. Only when you upgrade to the maximum do you get a whopping 2 population per square increase. And that is after you have rearranged your whole city.

The need for supplies is staggering. Just one level 22 armory needs 21,000 supplies a day to make 640 orcs. The tech tree eats supplies like water....it takes 120,000 supplies to unlock one tech, 150,000 supplies to unlock another. The first upgrade on a residence costs 30,900 supplies.

The need for orcs starts super early. Once you have gone past the 10th province circle (which some folks did way back in the dwarf era) you will need orcs to negotiate provinces. You can still fight...yeah right....but you cannot negotiate without orcs past that province. This confuses me because first they made everyone scramble to clear as many provinces as they could with the chests they released, but now apparently people have gone too far so they are putting the brakes on. I can't imagine how upset I would be if I was still in the dwarf era. This seems super unfair.

The T3 magical goods stay the same size unless you have gems. If you have gems, while they stay the same size, they reorient so you have to move everything all around. Although, good luck having the supplies needed to even run the T3 goods if you are spending them all on making orcs.

I haven't gotten any further. It is a long slow slog: Mostly filled with deleting buildings in order to get population so you can build other things.

I had four armories before the orcs came. I tried to upgrade them all and that took wayyyyyy too much population. So, I deleted one of the armories and now I have 3. I might go down to 2.

The new "big" non diamond culture building that you get at the end of the tech tree does give you more culture per square, but since it is a little smaller, you won't get as much NH boost when someone hits it for you.

Mostly, I am just very bored. Everything takes so long. It is a long slow slog. I haven't even gotten to the need for the mushroom farms and whatever comes next.

I suggest everyone read the forums over there and see what others are saying to get more tips: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...een-spotted-in-elvenar.5330/page-3#post-35837

 

[DeletedUser]

You don't give me much hope

 

[DeletedUser43]

Mostly you have to tear down a lot of the buildings you have and replace them with bigger versions.

I guess slow is better than nothing happening at all.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

I have not looked at the ORCs builds except in announcements here, but I will say, The come on advertisements for Elvenar and 0pening screens show a glorious city on a hill with tall buildings, so you think you will build your little village into that, but No now it is a squat for Orcs and Goblins partying with schroons and dung. I think the content of this release reflects the direction this game has gone and that is down the ......

 

[maeter75]

not looking forward to this release and hoping they fix some of the issue like lack of population that people are bringing up before they release it from Beta.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have not looked at the ORCs builds except in announcements here, but I will say, The come on advertisements for Elvenar and 0pening screens show a glorious city on a hill with tall buildings, so you think you will build your little village into that, but No now it is a squat for Orcs and Goblins partying with schroons and dung. I think the content of this release reflects the direction this game has gone and that is down the ......

I'm laughing so hard my stomach hurts.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Can someone do the math for me? The question is this: do you lose space if you upgrade these houses? Does it take more spaces for the culture and the population increase combined than it does currently for the fairy houses?

I am just now seriously considering if it makes sense to upgrade the houses for the elves?

This was just posted on the beta forum and the numbers are correct. I am wondering if it even makes sense to upgrade any of these houses being that you need more culture for them? (The number on the left is the population, and the number on the right is the amount of culture needed for that house). If so, then the tiny amount of population bonus I get from them will be eaten away by the additional culture space needed anyway:


"The population per culture also decreases significantly with the new Orc residences.

lvl19: 550/210 = 2.62
lvl20: 750/347 = 2.16
lvl21: 850/382 = 2.22

It's interesting to see how Inno tries to make everything more costly culture-wise."

Let me see if I can do the math.

The level 19 house takes 8 spaces. 210 culture split up among 8 spaces means that I need 26.25 culture points per square of residences. However on level 21 it takes up 12 spaces. 382 culture split up among 12 spaces means that I need 31.83 culture per square of residence. That is only a difference of 5.5 culture needed per space, but still, that is an increase. Right now...with the ponds we get 123 culture per space. We will go to 145 culture per space with the campfire bbq.

At a need of an additional 5 culture per square that means that once I get the best culture building I will be able to upgrade 26.36 houses before I need one full culture space. With the ponds, I can upgrade 22.3 houses before I need one full culture space.

Or am I making this way too complicated. We get 2 population per square increase. With a 5.5 culture space per population increase.

 

[DeletedUser627]

I've been running the math on this for a couple of days, and playing with layouts on the new Planner. I'm still on the fence, BK....

The new Armories and other building upgrades are also culture intensive.
We still don't know how much population will be required for our T3 upgrades, so there's not enough data to make a decision.

Also, the re-orientation of the houses will require a total re-working of the city. Which will require 2-3 empty expansions for a significant period OR

I'm working through the notion of delaying any upgrades. Of using my new expansions (I have 6 available right away) to build those disgusting Orc race temporary buildings...then work all the way through Research without doing any real city upgrades. Once I've finished and deleted all the mushroom garbage, then I can delete them and re-work the city. This would take longer...and I'd certainly fall in the rankings...but it has the advantage that we'll be closer to the next race (which couldn't possibly be any more depressing, I hope, than Orc garbitecture).

*****

A bit of math:

172 culture per residence upgrade

Example: I have 776 grids currently occupied by residences. This is 97 residences, but if I want to keep the same number of grids upgraded, I would upgrade 64 of them. I then need about 11,000 culture points to make the upgrade, and gain 1250 population.

This 11k culture in addition to the 8k culture needed for my 6 workshops and other mandatory buildings. Plus the culture required for out T3 upgrades, when that's made public.

Planning a city without snails is becoming a challenge. If we pop up and buy Snails, it all falls together with ease.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I can tell you a magic dust factory costs 271 pop and 77 culture to go to level 16.

It is the armories that cost so much in pop and culture. And you will need at least 2 armories for sure. Otherwise you can't make orcs.

 

[DeletedUser627]

As far as we know, other than the Orc guest race needs, the only current permanent use for Orcs is expansion negotiations or tournament catering, right?

If a L23 armory produces 520 / day, will 2 armories suffice?

 

[DeletedUser43]

You also need orcs for workshop upgrades. 101 pop 51 culture 1680 orcs. The size of the workshop stays the same. The production goes from 1550 to 1640.

I am starting to like your idea of not bothering to upgrade any of the other buildings and just build a lot of mushroom farms and other stuff.

2 is probably enough to limp by with. I can't keep 3 armories producing orcs all the time anyway because it costs so much in supplies.

 

[maeter75]

I am wondering is the Orc Housing is a mistake on their part. Going to put in a bug report since it sure seems to be a mistake.

 

[DeletedUser43]

It isn't a bug. They intend it. They are trying to force you to buy snails if you want more population. This is all about money.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

By Jove she's got it:

If we pop up and buy Snails, it all falls together with ease.

 

[DeletedUser1108]

Well that hangs it then, I will never, ever send INNO another penny under ANY circumstances and other than completing the scouting to lower the price, I will not be doing anything in orcs unless there is a major reworking - I'll pursue the remainder of the Ancient Wonders unless they attach orcs to that as well, but once that is done, then so am I. It would appear that Inno is actually trying to alienate people and get them to quit the game - I can't figure out how that could possibly work out profitably for them, but it is hard to come to any other conclusion. I suppose they will be able to re-purpose some servers once they have lost half the players...at the end of the day I don't understand why anyone would stay and mess up their cities with this crap - I imagine that some who have significant cash invested will consider filing a lawsuit, but I can't imagine it will go anywhere.

 

[DeletedUser627]

It would appear that Inno is actually trying to alienate people and get them to quit the game

I don't think they'd object it the majority of active players quit. They're trying to attract a different market than us...so in that scenario, we're increasingly unlikely to remain happy customers. If they have to choose between policies that make us happy, or policies they want to implement for a different demographic...well...

 

[DeletedUser]

question after you have the armory up and running making orcs where do you go to find how many you have?

 

[DeletedUser3040]

Look for an icon that symbolizes orcs and hover over it. I have to do that to determine how much of something I have whenever I'm upgrading a portal.

 

[DeletedUser]

there has to be a better way to find out how many Orc you have