Orc Planning

[DeletedUser627]

High ranking, high paying customers have already departed over other issues - it's like water off a duck.

Given the high level of dissatisfaction among upper players, I've considered that they might even prefer it if the old guard moves along so they can realign their demographic. They want players who'll shrug their shoulders and take whatever they're given, players who respond to the increased frustrations by either paying up or leaving.

 

[DeletedUser61]

The FUN part of the City Building genre is that you get to push the economics/resource allocation model all out of shape, because it's the core of the game.

• So we push, and figure out where we can get away with a LOT more than the developers ever anticipated
• So the developers figure out how to prune off that particular runner, so that the REST of the plant will remain healthy.

http://cekern.ucanr.edu/Custom_Program667/Publications_244/Reasons_and_Rules_of_Pruning_Grapevines/
I'm mystified by why you would be horrified by actions that will improve the integrity of the game.

 

[DeletedUser1108]

The FUN part of the City Building genre is that you get to push the economics/resource allocation model all out of shape, because it's the core of the game.

• So we push, and figure out where we can get away with a LOT more than the developers ever anticipated
• So the developers figure out how to prune off that particular runner, so that the REST of the plant will remain healthy.

http://cekern.ucanr.edu/Custom_Program667/Publications_244/Reasons_and_Rules_of_Pruning_Grapevines/
I'm mystified by why you would be horrified by actions that will improve the integrity of the game.

Oh I don't know...the offensive idea of raising and selling a slave race and the desecration of my city with a bunch of primitive looking garbage that I'm supposed to regard as 'upgrades' comes to mind first - then the idea that the housing 'upgrades' represent a 1% per square upgrade while the other structures require a 20% population increase comes to mind as well. All this within an already crowded space so that we are either required to buy their overpriced Snail Palaces or delete our factories and workshops to the point of creating a different crisis - I have to ask, are you receiving some kind of reward for being the developers apologist? Just wondering because you seem to be the ONLY person who believes that these changes represent any kind of improvement.

 

[DeletedUser706]

the idea that the housing 'upgrades' represent a 1% per square upgrade

No improvement, at least not for Elves:

A level 19 residence needs 9.92 squares of space (8 for the residence, 1 for the road assuming perfect layout, and 0.92 for culture assuming best nonpremium cultural building) and provides 550 population resulting in an efficiency of 55.46 workers per square.

A level 21 residence needs 15.34 squares of space (12 for the residence, 1.5 for the road assuming perfect layout, and 1.84 for culture assuming best nonpremium cultural building) and provides 850 population resulting in an efficiency of 55.42 workers per square.

I really wish it were an upgrade; it was always better to upgrade residences but now the best residence level is 19. I will probably upgrade my residences anyway, because I hope a next guest race will improve housing (more pleasing to the eye at least, but hopefully also more efficient as they used to be until now).

 

[DeletedUser2191]

The FUN part of the City Building genre is that you get to push the economics/resource allocation model all out of shape, because it's the core of the game.

I'm mystified by why you would be horrified by actions that will improve the integrity of the game.

How is the integrity of the game being improved when ...

- road blocks are being added when the majority of players haven't reached the research to be able to conquer those road blocks
- when people use an alternative non offensive word for an in game material resulting in their post being removed and or hand gets slapped
- when players are asked for feedback on FB, just to have theirs posts and ability to post removed/ blocked
- when there is a higher rate of dead city removal than there is new player sign ups

Edit - also wanted to mention, the numerous posts by players reporting on fellowship members and world map friends that have left or about to leave as result of the chapter 8 release

 

[DeletedUser61]

the majority of players haven't reached the research to be able to conquer those road blocks

• A very small handful of players have acquired MORE that 222 sectors and/or have acquired sectors beyond ring 10
• The majority of players have NOT been maxing out their production of goods,
  nor have they been using those goods to negotiate sectors that were soft capped for fighting.
• The developers understand that folks have been building a LOT of manufacturing buildings, even buildings that they have to leave idle because they can't support them, because that's how folks were maximizing their scores.
• So the developers have now introduced a soft cap for negotiation:
  Orcs are now deployed as guards when you negotiate sectors more distant than Ring 10.

there is a higher rate of dead city removal than there is new player sign ups

• I've been tracking the Arendyll population over at https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/arendyll-neighborhood-watch.2973/page-2#post-19862
• The overall totals have been dropping for the past few weeks while the developers were converting 100+ day inactive cities to Goldmines, but that's over and done with, and inactive players ARE being replaced by new immigrants after just barely 30 days, without a transitional Goldmine.
• I'm monitoring the 10 o'clock radial in Arendyll, and here's what happened just yesterday, and the overall numbers indicate the same thing.
  • 5 inactive cities (who joined and last played a month ago) were replaced by new immigrants
  • 1 Goldmine was replaced by a new immigrant

Current Name	Since	Ring	Score	Previous Name

[tr1][td1] BooPerDooPer141 [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td1] laviniafolau [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td1] joy31 [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 15 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td1] Silverbug75 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td1] Aurin [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 384 [/td2][td1] FairySoulmate [/td1][/tr1]
[tr1][td1] MawdDib [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 98 [/td2][td1] MouseKnuckles [/td1][/tr1]
[tr1][td1] Andalima* [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 283 [/td2][td1] Candance83* [/td1][/tr1]
[tr1][td1] meggielynn [/td1][td] 7/24 [/td][td2] 132 [/td2][td2] 159 [/td2][td1] Goldmine [/td1][/tr1]

 

[DeletedUser1831]

The need for orcs starts super early. Once you have gone past the 10th province circle (which some folks did way back in the dwarf era) you will need orcs to negotiate provinces. You can still fight...yeah right....but you cannot negotiate without orcs past that province. This confuses me because first they made everyone scramble to clear as many provinces as they could with the chests they released, but now apparently people have gone too far so they are putting the brakes on. I can't imagine how upset I would be if I was still in the dwarf era. This seems super unfair.

I can tell you - it sucks. I am about halfway through the dwarves, and I've already hit outer limits where I need orcs and I can't choose whether to fight or negotiate anymore. I anticipate it only getting worse, and my enthusiasm for the game is rapidly waning

 

[DeletedUser2191]

My replies are in brackets.

• A very small handful of players have acquired MORE that 222 sectors and/or have acquired sectors beyond ring 10

(My point exactly, a small portion of people who have earned the KP to get further in the research tree, while the majority are still well behind thus having smaller squad sizes and weaker armies to fight and win).

• The majority of players have NOT been maxing out their production of goods,
  nor have they been using those goods to negotiate sectors that were soft capped for fighting.
• The developers understand that folks have been building a LOT of manufacturing buildings, even buildings that they have to leave idle because they can't support them, because that's how folks were maximizing their scores.

(The above 2 points can go hand in hand. Have less factories at max level or have more factories at a lower level. Either way, for the majority who are not in chapter 8 and cannot produce orcs are now blocked from negotiating. They negotiate because they are not a fighter or their armies are not strong enough due to not having reached the required research to have strong enough armies. The orcs being a road block makes for one less way of earning KP to get to that research).

• So the developers have now introduced a soft cap for negotiation:
  Orcs are now deployed as guards when you negotiate sectors more distant than Ring 10.

(Guards are a person/ object/ structure/ area of land that protects another person/ object/ structure/ area of land. The orcs in this game are not guards, they are not appearing as enemy troops for us to fight. They are being used as an exchange/ trade good, much like our tiered goods we manufacture).

(Maybe everything thing is rosy and peachy on Arendyll, the same cannot be said for Felyndral. Nearly 1 month since the MASSIVE purge with a smaller purge late last week. After nearly 1 month, there have been ZERO replacements. The other 23 fellow members I am with all say the same thing, ZERO replacements. Since another 30 day cycle is about to end, guess what that means MORE PURGING, ugh).

 

[DeletedUser]

I am a new players but some of the problem with the orcs might be that it takes a high level armory in-order to be able to produce them. For my understanding, correct me if I am wrong, you must have a level 20 armory to be able to produce orcs. Maybe if the developers made the requirements to produce orcs a level 15 armory instead of a level 20 armory the players of the game would feel it is more balanced.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Only 160 provinces are needed to open the chest for Chapter VIII. So there's an OPTIONAL 62 sectors available before the new soft cap is reached. If someone has MORE than 160 sectors that's fine, but they're NOT required to make it into Chapter VIII.

I'm aware of a few folks who have acquired more than 300 provinces, and they're actually the ones who have obliged the developers to introduce the new negotiation soft cap. I'd certainly agree that those players may have to clear out some of their current buildings to make room for the buildings that are appropriate for the new soft capped paradigm, but that's always been the risk when you're playing on the bleeding edge.

To use the vernacular, "Suck it up, Buttercup".

One of the best things you can say to someone who has dug themselves a nice, deep hole, and has fallen right into it.
- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=suck it up buttercup

 

[DeletedUser627]

A very small handful of players have acquired MORE that 222 sectors and/or have acquired sectors beyond ring 10

So the developers have now introduced a soft cap for negotiation:
Orcs are now deployed as guards when you negotiate sectors more distant than Ring 10.

I'm aware of a few folks who have acquired more than 300 provinces, and they're actually the ones who have obliged the developers to introduce the new negotiation soft cap. I'd certainly agree that they may have to clear out some of their current buildings to make room for the buildings that are appropriate for the new soft capped paradigm, but that's always been the risk when you're playing on the bleeding edge.

To use the vernacular, "Suck it up, Buttercup".

You can spout your theories all day long, but the fact remains that there's no "soft cap" nor "sucking it up". There's just "pay up or shut up".

 

[DeletedUser61]

the fact remains that there's no "soft cap"

There's plenty of information out there if you google "soft cap hard cap". Here's one of the more concise definitions.

• A soft cap is a point where a stat experiences strong, sudden diminishing returns.
• A hardcap is a point at which you can no longer increase something at all.
• https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/3j33eo/what_is_soft_cap_and_hard_cap/

 

[DeletedUser43]

So let me get this straight?
"Suck it up, Buttercup" is one of the best things you can say to someone who has dug themselves a nice deep hole and fallen right into it.

So you are saying that playing Elvenar is digging yourself into a nice deep hole that we have all fallen into.

Got it.

 

[DeletedUser61]

someone who has dug themselves a nice deep hole and fallen right into it.

"Did you paint yourself into a corner?" is an equally apt phrase, as is "Climbing out on a limb and then sawing it off."

The concept exists in many forms, because it's part of the human condition. The sad part is when people are unwilling to recognize that their own actions are the cause of their own problems.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

I am sorry Kat. but you comments are condescending and arrogant to say the least. I for one did no map fighting or negotiations once the tournaments started (two months ago) and though I continued to scout I felt I could catch up after gathering KPS and relics in this new way provided by the developers.
I have a very balanced build with 40 houses 10 Workshops and 4 each of my boosted mfgs, Not excessive. I dug no hole.

I bought with diamonds way back (Chapter III) 5 or 6 expansions before they increased in price so I did not need to expand until this release. I am now faced with only 2 of 14+ scouted provinces without Orcs, so I am limited in expansions though I have the room.

I feel your making judgements of other users based on your personal playing style and a swelled head, or based on your own statements, some sort of insider knowledge of what the developers are thinking .

 

[DeletedUser1831]

"Did you paint yourself into a corner?" is an equally apt phrase, as is "Climbing out on a limb and then sawing it off."

The concept exists in many forms, because it's part of the human condition. The sad part is when people are unwilling to recognize that their own actions are the cause of their own problems.

*sigh* At this rate, you really should be on the Elvenar payroll.

 

[DeletedUser1590]

I can tell you - it sucks. I am about halfway through the dwarves, and I've already hit outer limits where I need orcs and I can't choose whether to fight or negotiate anymore. I anticipate it only getting worse, and my enthusiasm for the game is rapidly waning

I'm a little further along, but am in the same boat regarding the provinces. Can't even hope to get past them due to the ridiculous imbalance in the troops by fighting. And that means I have to slog through all of the fairy chapter before even getting to the ability to "grow" orcs to use in the negotiations. Beyond frustrated is an understatement, as is enthusiasm is rapidly waning. :/

 

[DeletedUser61]

I have a very balanced build with 40 houses 10 Workshops and 4 each of my boosted mfgs, Not excessive.

But the issue at hand is not how balanced your city happens to be, bur rather how many provinces you have negotiated in Ring 11 and beyond, and did you need a contrived city to support that effort. One with "no room for more buildings?"

I've been playing City Builders for 20 years, well before InnoGames even existed. If you're curious, take a peek at some of my material that's dated way back in 2002. See http://web.archive.org/web/20050221040341/http://www.marvl.com/serpentineum/ZigZag-Cities.htm

I've ALWAYS been interested in how well a game hangs together. A good third of my Elvenar posts, for more than a year now, have been about the simple-minded approach that the developers have been using to place immigrants on the World Map. I'd imagine that the developers are getting pretty tired of hearing about it, by now.

The recent Goldmines, and the fact that inactive villages are now actually being replaced after just barely 30 inactive days, without an interim Goldmine, is a HUGE step in the right direction. And in the Facebook Q&A last week Timon indicated that we'll soon™ be able to move our cities. I'm not holding my breath, but it can't be much worse and it could be wonderful.

Back to the subject at hand, which is the Orcs soft cap on negotiation, my concerns have very little to do with playing style. Rather, they're about whether each portion of the game "makes sense" and whether folks are intentionally pulling the guts out of the game, just because they know how.

• If you've long since surpassed the capability of your Military, and can only negotiate, that doesn't make sense.
• If you have TWICE the manufacturing capacity that you need to keep up with the tech tree, that doesn't make sense.
• Each Advanced Scouting Technology reduces your costs by 25%. If your scouting is currently limited by the end game Coin capacity of your Main Hall, that doesn't make sense.
• If your scouting times are 2 plus days, and you "need" the provinces, that doesn't make sense.

I can push the envelope with the best of them when something needs to be called to the attention of the developers, that's actually the fun part of playing a City Builder, but that doesn't mean that I expect the developers to be grateful, nor particularly concerned about all of the effort that I've "wasted."

The developers should do what they need to do, to keep the game balanced and playable. I DO NOT want the developers to spend any time on code that would only serve to protect the interests of the folks who have already been through the wringer.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Back to the subject at hand, which is the Orcs soft cap on negotiation, my concerns have very little to do with playing style. Rather, they're about whether each portion of the game "makes sense" and whether folks are intentionally pulling the guts out of the game, just because they know how.

• If you've long since surpassed the capability of your Military, and can only negotiate, that doesn't make sense.
• If you have TWICE the manufacturing capacity that you need to keep up with the tech tree, that doesn't make sense.
• Each Advanced Scouting Technology reduces your costs by 25%. If your scouting is currently limited by the end game Coin capacity of your Main Hall, that doesn't make sense.
• If your scouting times are 2 plus days, and you "need" the provinces, that doesn't make sense.

I'll be generous and presume that these considerations are important - TO YOU. But they're irrelevant in the minds of developers. We know this, because they'll allow players to buy their way past any of your concerns.

Not to mention...that manufacturing capacity is used to purchase KP - it makes perfect sense to have twice or thrice or more what we need for research.

 

[DeletedUser1601]

I looked all over and I don't see a single person anywhere with orc buildings.