Orcs in Provinces, but Player isn't in Orc Chapter?

[ventranolfdarho]

I don't understand this. I've been searching around here for some sort of explanation, but haven't found one that makes sense? I'm the Archamage of my fellowship and we've never really had problems before with anything. Since the release of the orcs, however, suddenly all the provinces have orcs within the negotiations and many of my fellows aren't even in the orc chapter yet. What gives? I mean, I could understand if they've done the Advance Scouting research to enter into the Orc Chapter, but if they aren't even in the Orc Chapter... I have a few members still in the Dwarven Chapter and many of the factory and armory, etc, upgrades require more grounds, and so we have to expand our lands, which require the provinces. (Not everyone in my fellowship buys diamonds.)

I've seen some higher leveled players and how they spend the diamonds to get all sorts of things, and that's great! But it almost seems to me that if you can't afford the diamonds, you're SOL, and that can be problematic, I think. I'm just curious to know if this is an oversight/bug, or if this is really how it's going to be now. Or maybe this is just the developers testing the waters?

 

[DeletedUser61]

400 Relic sectors are available if you've explored the 10 Rings that are near your city. Orcs are now required to guard the more distant sectors (11 or higher) that you acquire through Negotiation. The associated Tournament requirement was NOT intended, and has been hotfixed (removed) in Beta.

300 ish sectors is the current soft cap for acquiring sectors by Fighting, so the Negotiation soft cap was much needed in order to keep the game balanced.

As a sanity check, you only need to acquire 160 sectors to get into Chapter VIII. I've been at the end of Chapter VII with 162 sectors for a month now, and I still have 10 expansions that I've never used. So you definitely don't "NEED" more than 400 acquired sectors unless you're simply running up your score.

 

[ventranolfdarho]

Sector = Province. Like I said, though, I have at least one player in my fellowship who is still in the Dwarven chapter. Should I suggest to her to just scout out other provinces until she finds some that don't require the use of orcs? I don't know how far she is on the map.

 

[DeletedUser61]

The Relic Rings on the map are a pointy-topped hexagon. There's a nice illustration at
https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map#Province_Distance

 

[ventranolfdarho]

Right. Got that. So, if she's beyond the 10th sector, she can't do much of anything until she's researched the orcs... Unless she wants to fight (which she's indicated to me that she is not a really good fighter.)

No, I'm not this stupid, I promise. Just getting clarity in case I get asked.

And thank you for all of your help.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Unless she wants to fight

Fighting become impossible at about 300 sectors, 8.5 Rings, with the currently available units.

The ability to manufacture enormous quantities of goods, and the lack of an associated soft cap, was allowing folks to Negotiate far more than 300 sectors, which allowed them to active even more expansions, which allowed them to manufacture enormous quantities of goods, etc.

Negotiating Sectors was a loop that was making the game very lopsided, and that weakness in the game design was allowing cities to eat up the space that was available in the city display.

 

[ventranolfdarho]

I think all of my players negotiate now in their provinces because the fighting is too difficult. When you have your own units going against units that are built up of over a thousand, it makes it impossible to defeat them. Honestly, I would prefer to fight than negotiate, but it's just not possible.

Isn't part of the point of the game to use the space that is available? To scout the area and finish provinces to add land to make the city bigger?

 

[DeletedUser61]

Isn't part of the point of the game to use the space that is available? To scout the area and finish provinces to add land to make the city bigger? When you go to a smorgasbord, are you obliged to empty every platter? We have reached the point in the development of the game where more and more content is available, and some of the established players who were, indeed, eating all of everything, are going to need to start browsing. At some point trying to do EVERYTHING becomes more work than fun.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Right. Got that. So, if she's beyond the 10th sector, she can't do much of anything until she's researched the orcs... Unless she wants to fight (which she's indicated to me that she is not a really good fighter.)

No, I'm not this stupid, I promise. Just getting clarity in case I get asked.

And thank you for all of your help.

Katwijk isn't really helping - he's just following his personal policy of "support your local developer" no matter what. I wish his loyalties were with fellow players - he'd be a welcome advocate.

Isn't part of the point of the game to use the space that is available? To scout the area and finish provinces to add land to make the city bigger?

Yes, from a player perspective - our goal is to scout and finish and enlarge our cities. From a developer perspective, their intent is to make money. Since we like enlarging out cities, Inno's natural response is to impose new limitations on our ability to do what we enjoy in hopes that we'll pay diamonds in order to negotiate.

The strategy is transparent: first they introduce the chests - in order to create the reward pattern. We scout, we complete, we get the reward; repeat, repeat, repeat. Then, when we're habitualized, they remove our ability to gain the reward - which increases the likelihood that players will spend in order to complete the cycle.

Imo, Inno has their marketing matrix skewed. They too heavily rely on frustration (a normal component of social gaming purchases), and ignore the desirability component.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Imo, Inno has their marketing matrix skewed. They too heavily rely on frustration (a normal component of social gaming purchases), and ignore the desirability component.

This is so true - such as requiring an enormous amount of culture for these new orc buildings...then only provide mediocre [free] orc culture! So frustrating - it seems a bit unfair when this far into the game! Almost tempted to buy some of those "powerful" cultural buildings.............NOT!

 

[DeletedUser]

i'm only just into chapter 2 of the tree...just got my advanced manufactories...I'm scouting 5 provinces away yet I've been encountering orcs for awhile....

 

[DeletedUser815]

I am also an Archmage and I have several players talking about quitting the game. I can understand their frustration. To take away the ability until after they get to ORCS? Unacceptable... they should have waited until players finished the Fairies. A sneaky way of trying to get players to finish an encounter by completing it with diamonds. I understand that INNO requires income to develop the game and I have purchased diamonds in the past, but I will NOT spend one single diamond on completing a Province.

 

[DeletedUser627]

From Beta, due in the next release:

• Premium city expansions are no longer tied to your Main Hall level - the maximum number of this type you can have in your city is 33

So...they're determined to get your money one way or another. Their solution to being prevented from earning free expansions? Let you buy them.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have 4 premium expansions. Dont know how to use them...lost the email sent by support... oops...

 

[DeletedUser1016]

i'm only just into chapter 2 of the tree...just got my advanced manufactories...I'm scouting 5 provinces away yet I've been encountering orcs for awhile....

You should submit a support ticket to let them know this problem...you should not encounter orcs to negotiate until the 10th ring and beyond.

I have 4 premium expansions. Dont know how to use them...lost the email sent by support... oops...

Premium expansions work the same way as earned expansions, you just place the 5x5 grid space down onto the field?

 

[DeletedUser61]

they're determined to get your money one way or another

But they've also introduced the Orcs, which will substantially reduce the demand for Negotiation Goods, so you won't need nearly as much space for manufacturing.

 

[DeletedUser]

You should submit a support ticket to let them know this problem...you should not encounter orcs to negotiate until the 10th ring and beyond.



Premium expansions work the same way as earned expansions, you just place the 5x5 grid space down onto the field?

I did enter a ticket. Lost the notification. And no, I can't place them. It just asks for diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser627]

But they've also introduced the Orcs, which will substantially reduce the demand for Negotiation Goods, so you won't need nearly as much space for manufacturing.

Orcs aren't free - it's 9500 supplies / 12 hour production. They're not cheap.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I can't place them. It just asks for diamonds.

There are three types of expansions, each in a separate box.

• Premium Expansions are just that. They always require Diamonds
• City Expansions are research related. They require Coins, but allow you to use Diamonds if you're short on coins
• Provincial Expansions have no cost other than the need to acquire several sectors per expansion

There's a detailed breakdown at https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Expansions#City_Expansions_Overview

Orcs aren't free - it's 9500 supplies / 12 hour production. They're not cheap.

Yes indeed. In effect you'll need Supplies AND Coins in order to negotiate for sectors that are more distant than Ring 10.

The obvious conclusion is that you'll need more workshops in your city, and fewer manufacturing buildings. Looking forward, I'd expect the developers to keep tuning the requirements until we have parity between Negotiation and Fighting, so that either approach is viable in every encounter.

 

[DeletedUser]

I know there are 3 expansions! Why can't I place the 4 premium ones that I have?