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    Your Elvenar Team

Please Rate

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
There is a reason why there are not more Gold Spire FSs... The 3rd floor incentives are not worth it to a lot of players.
I'm not sure that's the case exactly. Or at least not the whole story.

Those of us who do get gold spire find the rewards to be excellent and most seem to think it's totally worth the "cost" so maybe the rewards aren't the issue, but rather finding 24 like-minded players is the biggest factor.

I've seen loads of posts on the forums (even a few in this thread) where gold players aren't in a gold FS because they want to keep playing with the friends they have made. So perhaps it's not that the rewards aren't worth it, it's that many players just aren't hardcore enough for goldspire every week regardless of the rewards.
All it takes is for 4 players in a FS to not be interested to guarantee failure in achieving Gold.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that's the case exactly. Or at least not the whole story.

Those of us who do get gold spire find the rewards to be excellent and most seem to think it's totally worth the "cost" so maybe the rewards aren't the issue, but rather finding 24 like-minded players is the biggest factor.

I've seen loads of posts on the forums (even a few in this thread) where gold players aren't in a gold FS because they want to keep playing with the friends they have made. So perhaps it's not that the rewards aren't worth it, it's that many players just aren't hardcore enough for goldspire every week regardless of the rewards.
All it takes is for 4 players in a FS to not be interested to guarantee failure in achieving Gold.
That is a good point but the countless complaints I read on the FB Groups is that 3rd floor prizes are not worth the cost. If the prizes were better then more would strive for the Top of the Spire, therby creating more Gold Spire FSs. How many Gold Spire FSs are in the worlds you play in, maybe my world is just a lackluster world for Gold Spire FSs.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
If the prizes were better then more would strive for the Top of the Spire, therby creating more Gold Spire FSs.
Right now the Fellowship Gold Spire Prizes are 10 CCs, 15 5 hour speedups, 1 10% PP, 1 teleport spell, and 125 diamonds. That is on top of the Bronze Prizes, Silver Prizes, and individual prizes.

How much better do they need to be? Or do you just want to eliminate FS rewards and make all the prizes individual, no longer a team effort?
 

Deleted User - 1178646

Guest
That is a good point but the countless complaints I read on the FB Groups is that 3rd floor prizes are not worth the cost. If the prizes were better then more would strive for the Top of the Spire, therby creating more Gold Spire FSs. How many Gold Spire FSs are in the worlds you play in, maybe my world is just a lackluster world for Gold Spire FSs.
Just because it's on facebook doesn't mean it's true.

It makes a huge difference if someone explains why it's worth it.
Just as an example:
I once joined a group of newbies, they did not understand the tournaments and thought it was a waste of time, I helped and explained why it was good and most of them became very active tournament fanatics.

It makes all the difference who you talk to, If you join a FB group and everyone tells you level 3 sucks then you never question if it really sucks, you just accept what everyone is telling you.
It takes a few people to tell otherwise, then they discussion starts and minds can change.
If it ain't challenged it will be accepted as the truth.

The spire is the main source of free diamonds and most of those are in the 3rd stage.
For someone who spends $50,- a month on diamonds that person most likely won't care, but freebee players it's the main source of diamonds.
I recently found my list back
1631028212943.png

220 of the 434 diamonds are earned in the 3rd stage, that's about 50%
There are also additional chances on dwarven armouries and artefacts, both in extra chests as in boss reward.
And last but not least: almost 50% of all timeboosters, 1 teleport spel, 50% of all catalists are earned in the final stage.

Thats a lot, the issue is it only it 50% of all spire prizes if your fellowship also get's there and you aren't the only one going for it.
When people get too frustrated they will switch fellowships, but as @SoggyShorts already mentioned the step to leave those you know behind because you have different interests is a huge step for many and often a step too far.

But really the spire is a gold mine, it keeps giving and giving as long as you all work together.
And 434 diamonds is a very generous reward. there arent many games where you get the payed currency that much that easy.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
How many Gold Spire FSs are in the worlds you play in
10 +-2 per server
So yes, there are only 250 players getting Gold rewards, but, I think there are only maybe 500 Gold players per server anyways and they will never get gold FS rewards because they are scattered among 90 other FS. Even if better rewards enticed another 500 players to become gold players there would still only be perhaps a handful more gold FS because players don't change FS.

Another factor we may be overlooking is skill level and natural aptitude. Some people are just terrible at logic puzzles and therefore can't make a profit in diamonds from the spire. Those will always say that the prizes aren't worth it. Others are bad at fighting with the same result. We might find it very easy to design a sustainable spire city but anyone hyper-focused on making it pretty is gonna have a hard time.
Just because it's on facebook doesn't mean it's true.
This should be repeated daily on all subjects.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I've been topping the Spire for over a year, maybe 18 months? I don't know. For me it's fairly easy and worth the cost as my city is built for it.

Getting 24 like minded Spire players isn't easy but you can build them. We are in the process of doing so in my fs. A little growth each week and eventually we will get the Gold all the time because we pay attention to building a foundation for sustainability.

Maybe a lot of fs's are busy doing that and in the next few months that 10 Gold will become 100. It certainly wouldn't hurt to raise the tier 3 awards a tiny amount overall and.....

in the mean time I think the changes requested are so small that Inno should actually do them just to say they are listening and we can (sometimes) get what at least some of us would like.

AJ
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
@Dew Spinner ,
due to outdated bs FS rules, many cantidates are pass'd over...
including lower CH players, thats why there's only 10 currently....
Not enough Spire focused FSs, too many then also want
10+chests and top FA, and lose the pure Spire players.....

but there's @least 2x that or 500 ppl or more that I would
include in your statictics, minimum
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
10 +-2 per server
So yes, there are only 250 players getting Gold rewards, but, I think there are only maybe 500 Gold players per server anyways and they will never get gold FS rewards because they are scattered among 90 other FS. Even if better rewards enticed another 500 players to become gold players there would still only be perhaps a handful more gold FS because players don't change FS.

Another factor we may be overlooking is skill level and natural aptitude. Some people are just terrible at logic puzzles and therefore can't make a profit in diamonds from the spire. Those will always say that the prizes aren't worth it. Others are bad at fighting with the same result. We might find it very easy to design a sustainable spire city but anyone hyper-focused on making it pretty is gonna have a hard time.

This should be repeated daily on all subjects.
I get what your saying, really I do, I just think something is inherently flawed with a side game when there are so FEW FSs attaining the top prizes. I guess I should just consider myself fortunate to be in one of the very few FSs that do get Gold Spire. I thought maybe there would be away to greatly improve Top of the Spire participation but I guess not.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
@Dew Spinner ,
due to outdated bs FS rules, many cantidates are pass'd over...
including lower CH players, thats why there's only 10 currently....
Not enough Spire focused FSs, too many then also want
10+chests and top FA, and lose the pure Spire players.....

but there's @least 2x that or 500 ppl or more that I would
include in your statictics, minimum
Unfortunately there isn't, if only 10 FSs are getting Gold Spire in my world then there can ONLY be a maximum of 250 players getting Gold Spire Fellowship rewards. Individuals that go to the Top of the Spire do not get the Gold Spire Fellowship rewards unless their FS gets Gold Spire.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
There is also the problem where.....
Not enough Gold Spire FSs, specialize ( main goal ) in Spire.
I see alot of 10-chest FSs, that are so-so on FAs/Spire, even
some top FA FSs that don't care about Spire and/or Tourn.

Where are the pure Gold Spire FSs, that are just "pretty good"
at the other two things (tourn/FA) ??? FSs like that would also
be able to scoop up players like me, that finishes the spire
every week, but might be a lower CH player or have a different
playstyle ( my trading ).....

I'm sure there are @least 5-10 high Silver FSs that with 1-2 more
guarenteed finishers in Spire, would be Gold FSs.......
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I just think something is inherently flawed with a side game when there are so FEW FSs attaining the top prizes.
That is one way to look at it. I kinda think it's a good thing for something in the game to be difficult enough that not everyone is handed it.
An extreme counter to your position, I know, but the pendulum swings super hard at inno, they suck pretty badly at balance.
I thought maybe there would be away to greatly improve Top of the Spire participation but I guess not.
It just depends on what the real issue is. Some in this thread believe it's a lack of good prizes for motivation, but others like myself think it's more a lack of being in a group with the same playtime/hardcorenessTM
Undoubtedly it's a combination of both, but I think the latter is the main cause.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
well Soggy, I look'd , and even if you were my best friend
your FS ( Gold Spire +10 chests ) is too concerned with
intangibles to ever accept me, and I've finish'd the Spire
13 months in a row, for no other reason than...
I like logic puzzles........ but that means nothing.....
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
well Soggy, I look'd , and even if you were my best friend
your FS ( Gold Spire +10 chests ) is too concerned with
intangibles to ever accept me
IIRC we first "met" because I was inviting you to my FS. The only sticking point was that we don't allow cross-trading, that's it. Our trader gets cleared several times per day and that's easy to do because all trades are balanced in the easiest way possible: 2-star same tier. We've tried allowing them in the past and invariably the trader activity drops hard because no one wants to tip-toe through the trader avoiding undesirable trades that are difficult to reverse.
If you had balanced your city so that you don't need cross trades you could have enjoyed Gold-spire rewards for the past 36 weeks more actually since we were just short a few times and you would have put us over the top. that was your call.
 
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BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Soggy, didn't men to cause a bru-ha-ha ....
I only used your FS and me as an example.....
my point is/was, if the #1 focus for a FS is
Spire Gold, everything else is Secondary...

( funny haha ) but if you can't just ... not scroll
down enuff to see my offers, you got bigger
problems than we thought....
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
( funny haha ) but if you can't just ... not scroll
down enuff to see my offers, you got bigger
problems than we thought....
(funny haha ) but if your city can't thrive
with balanced trades, you got bigger
problems than we thought...
;)
But seriously it's not a matter of not scrolling too far. Since we can't have a special rule just for one player, cross trades (when allowed) are totally mixed into good ones.
E.G.
cross
cross
good
cross
good
cross
cross
good
x3-5 pages.
It's just sooooo fast to powerclick "accept" all the way from top to bottom that several players do it all the time in a 1:1 FS.
And in cross-trade FS avoiding the minefield to see if 1-2 players actually needs a1:1 trade somewhere is too time-consuming to be worth it.
my point is/was, if the #1 focus for a FS is
Spire Gold, everything else is Secondary...
True, but most FS are multi-faceted with several simultaneous goals. I'd say that since the Spire is easily the most challenging that a "spire-focused" FS naturally does everything else too. I mean, who's getting gold spire and under 1K tournament points? The FA as we know is...special and an entirely different thread or 50 is needed to address that, but in general, I'm pretty sure that high spire achievers are just high achievers at everything.
 
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Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
(funny haha ) but if your city can't thrive
with balanced trades, you got bigger
problems than we thought...
;)
But seriously it's not a matter of not scrolling too far. Since we can't have a special rule just for one player, cross trades (when allowed) are totally mixed into good ones.
E.G.
cross
cross
good
cross
good
cross
cross
good
x3-5 pages.
It's just sooooo fast to powerclick "accept" all the way from top to bottom that several players do it all the time in a 1:1 FS.
And in cross-trade FS avoiding the minefield to see if 1-2 players actually needs a1:1 trade somewhere is too time-consuming to be worth it.

True, but most FS are multi-faceted with several simultaneous goals. I'd say that since the Spire is easily the most challenging that a "spire-focused" FS naturally does everything else too. I mean, who's getting gold spire and under 1K tournament points? The FA as we know is...special and an entirely different thread or 50 is needed to address that, but in general, I'm pretty sure that high spire achievers are just high achievers at everything.
That's true but any player that is Spire focused will have a hard time finding a spot on the only, 10 Gold Spire FS, those spots are coveted and don't open up often. And even if they do the Gold Spire FSs are very selective. In a way it is a lose/lose, Spire focused players have a hard time getting into Gold Spire FSs and Gold Spire FSs overlook a lot of good players in order to keep the Gold Spire status. It is definitely true, if you build your city to do well in Spire it can handle anything else the game throws at you. That's what I did from the start and Top of the Spire isn't even really challenging for me now, but I like the Gold Spire FS rewards and wish more players could get them, it doesn't have to be handed to everyone to increase participation and make more Gold Spire FSs available for players who would like to join one.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
any player that is Spire focused will have a hard time finding a spot on the only, 10 Gold Spire FS, those spots are coveted and don't open up often.
I find the exact opposite to be true. there's a reason my signature has been recruiting for almost a year- there is always an open spot, not just in our Gold FS, but in a few of the other golds as well. The player retention in this game is atrocious.
And even if they do the Gold Spire FSs are very selective.
Again, I'm not seeing that on my servers (beta/win/khel)
  • Second floor boss
  • 1600 tournament
  • regular visits
  • 1:1 trades
Doesn't seem overly selective to me.
 
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