Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[Kraken52]

Well since I have none needing an upgrade and the next one I do have is 13,000, I would say it was perfect.

Well that must be for a level 12 upgrade. What are you going to do when you need to upgrade to level 22 OR 32?

 

[Pheryll]

Well that must be for a level 12 upgrade. What are you going to do when you need to upgrade to level 22 OR 32?

Perhaps start a different AW. The levels after 21 are low reward and should be weighed against how they up the tournament/spire SS.

 

[Glandeh]

Perhaps start a different AW. The levels after 21 are low reward and should be weighed against how they up the tournament/spire SS.

Perhaps you should make that after 20. Saves 25 RRs that way. But I agree with that idea. Much less inclined to upgrade level 20+ wonders.

 

[JackofShadows]

Well since I have none needing an upgrade and the next one I do have is 13,000, I would say it was perfect.

That's your personal experience. Here's my personal experience to counter yours:

My GA will take 18K fragments to upgrade. Assuming I get 12K / week from the Spire and spend 1K / day on crafting (leaving me with 5K / week to upgrade), it will take me 4 weeks to accumulate the fragments to upgrade that one AW.

My Needles will take 14K fragments. That's another 3 weeks.

By the time that seven weeks is up, my GA will be ready to upgrade again, as will my other AWs.

BTW, an average of 1K / day for crafting isn't a lot. A 20 hour time booster is 960 fragments. And that's just one thing.

If I cut my crafting back to 5K / week leaving me with 7K for AWs, it still takes me 5 weeks to upgrade those 2 AWs. And the slowdown in crafting will hurt me in other ways - not as much pet food, so I can't be guaranteed to be able to feed Tinlug every week for the tourney - which reduces my CC income. I won't have the troop booster buildings, so fighting the Spire will be more costly - which means I might not make it to the top every week - which reduces my fragment intake and compounds the problem.

I'm not one of the end-game players like many people on these forums. I'm relatively new, in early Dwarves. I don't have multiple moonstone libraries and a level 10 fire phoenix and a maxed out brown bear. If a player like me can do the math and see that there is a shortage of fragment availability in the game, I'm absolutely shocked that you can't see it also.

 

[Astram]

That's your personal experience. Here's my personal experience to counter yours:

My GA will take 18K fragments to upgrade. Assuming I get 12K / week from the Spire and spend 1K / day on crafting (leaving me with 5K / week to upgrade), it will take me 4 weeks to accumulate the fragments to upgrade that one AW.

My Needles will take 14K fragments. That's another 3 weeks.

By the time that seven weeks is up, my GA will be ready to upgrade again, as will my other AWs.

BTW, an average of 1K / day for crafting isn't a lot. A 20 hour time booster is 960 fragments. And that's just one thing.

If I cut my crafting back to 5K / week leaving me with 7K for AWs, it still takes me 5 weeks to upgrade those 2 AWs. And the slowdown in crafting will hurt me in other ways - not as much pet food, so I can't be guaranteed to be able to feed Tinlug every week for the tourney - which reduces my CC income. I won't have the troop booster buildings, so fighting the Spire will be more costly - which means I might not make it to the top every week - which reduces my fragment intake and compounds the problem.

I'm not one of the end-game players like many people on these forums. I'm relatively new, in early Dwarves. I don't have multiple moonstone libraries and a level 10 fire phoenix and a maxed out brown bear. If a player like me can do the math and see that there is a shortage of fragment availability in the game, I'm absolutely shocked that you can't see it also.

Again the point was my personal experience, and my feelings about the wonder change are clear and have been expressed on Discord many times. As I have said the Overall wonder changes are good and yes some parts hurt, but the one area I am firm on is the Cost structure. This portion was bad as it introduced a "Structural Scarcity" into the game that only creates more of a "Have versus Have not" or simply put "the rich against the poor"

 

[Silver Lady]

I hate to disagree with you @Astram but I find I must*. As a long time player with both established cities and a brand new baby city just starting Dwarves (chap 6) the old cost structure was much better. My baby city has 2 AWs a GA L6 and CL L3 both were built and leveled before the change and are again ready to upgrade. I can’t upgrade either due to lack of resources and those resources are not tradable within the FS. I do @10 provinces (all I have open) in tournament and first floor of Spire every week. It’ll will be months before I can upgrade if I ever do. My older established cities are in a slightly better position (having Moonstone sets, Tinlung but no Fire Chicken or Brown Bear) and a reserve of old event buildings, but I’ve got AWs I’d like to upgrade but it’s a hard balancing act between upgrade or craft as I can’t do both to the extent I could before the change. And we haven’t even had to factor in an FA yet. IMHO this cost structure is creating more “Have nots”. I’m still waiting and watching but as the weather turns better and the outdoor projects mount up I will definitely be reconsidering the amount of time, money and effort spent on this game.

Edited to clarify with whom and with what I was disagreeing.

*Second edit: As Astram removed his quote: to clarify, I am disagreeing with his implied approval of the change to the cost of upgrading AWs. I believe the new AW upgrade cost structure will create a bigger gap between “have and have not” players, but I am still (for now) in the wait and see stage.

Edited: Most humble apologies for agregious use of incorrect name (Ashrem instead of Astram) and for failure to notice and correct sooner.

 

[Silver Lady]

@StarLoad I was disagreeing with (incorrect - Ashrem) Astram, I have edited the original post to make this clear.

Edit: corrected name, apologies to both Ashrem & Astram.

 

[Astram]

@StarLoad I was disagreeing with Ashrem, I have edited the original post to make this clear.

I will help and clarify by removing the quote

 

[TimeMachine]

It's all a matter of perspective thinking and mind set I guess.

Of course it will take longer to upgrade Ancient Wonders now for everybody but is this really that terrible?

I don't have an answer to this at this time.

To know an answer I will have to run out of a recource that is needed for wonder-upgrading first and experience how to live with that or where to find a walkaround.

 

[Pheryll]

*Second edit: As Ashrem removed his quote: to clarify, I am disagreeing with his implied approval of the change to the cost of upgrading AWs. I believe the new AW upgrade cost structure will create a bigger gap between “have and have not” players, but I am still (for now) in the wait and see stage.

Do you mean you are disagreeing with @Astram? I do not see any posts by @Ashrem here. The last time Ashrem posted appears to be in September.

 

[Silver Lady]

@Pheryll you are correct; apology posted.

Edited: Most humble apologies for agregious use of incorrect name (Ashrem instead of Astram) and for failure to notice and correct sooner.

 

[JackofShadows]

@TimeMachine - I gave a breakdown of what I'm looking at for my AW upgrades in my previous post. Under the old cost structure, I could afford to upgrade an AW every 2-3 weeks. Doing at least 10 chests in the tourney weekly generated plenty of relics. Now I'm looking at 7 weeks to upgrade 2 AWs, and that's if I get lucky with the Spire and limit my crafting.

 

[Astram]

@Pheryll you are correct; apology posted.

I am confused, you are disagreeing with my statement

As I have said the Overall wonder changes are good and yes some parts hurt, but the one area I am firm on is the Cost structure. This portion was bad as it introduced a "Structural Scarcity" into the game that only creates more of a "Have versus Have not" or simply put "the rich against the poor"

this part?

 

[TimeMachine]

I gave a breakdown of what I'm looking at for my AW upgrades in my previous post. Under the old cost structure, I could afford to upgrade an AW every 2-3 weeks.

This depends to the chapter one is playing in and how fast she or he was and is moving forward in chapters but under the old cost structure, if KP would have been no matter I would have been able to upgrade wonders non-stop, especially in my bigger cities.

Now I'm looking at 7 weeks to upgrade 2 AWs, and that's if I get lucky with the Spire and limit my crafting.

Wow! Seven weeks for 2 Ancient Wonder upgrades sounds really hard to me. Maybe they've slowed it all down a little too much.
As far as spell fragments are missing I would recommend to do more spire and in return maybe a little less tournament.
I wish you good luck that your upgrades can be started earlier than expected!

I've heard that the devs and especially Alina are working on a few new exciting spire-rewards.

I am really excited if this could have been the first harbinger of upcoming changes in spire?

Spoiler

[/SPOILER

 

[TimeMachine]

This portion was bad as it introduced a "Structural Scarcity" into the game that only creates more of a "Have versus Have not" or simply put "the rich against the poor"

Did you mean the old or the new cost structure to create more of "Have versus Have not"?

 

[Silver Lady]

@Astram
Yes and no. Yes - Was disagreeing with what I thought I saw in your statement. No - Have now found glasses and after rereading your post have deleted my statements as they are not applicable.

Apologies for all confusion caused.

 

[Astram]

@Astram
Yes and no. Yes - Was disagreeing with what I thought I saw in your statement. No - Have now found glasses and after rereading your post have deleted my statements as they are not applicable.

Apologies for all confusion caused.

No problem I sometimes do the same thing on my own posts

 

[Astram]

Did you mean the old or the new cost structure to create more of "Have versus Have not"?

The addition of SF as a Currency creates the "structural scarcity" that is extremely detrimental to the game on par with an ELE asteroid, such as that even a glancing blow is the end, so, best to make it miss totally.

 

[JackofShadows]

The addition of SF as a Currency creates the "structural scarcity" that is extremely detrimental to the game on par with an ELE asteroid, such as that even a glancing blow is the end, so, best to make it miss totally.

Upthread - context is in regards to how many SFs the Spire gives (14K approx):

Well since I have none needing an upgrade and the next one I do have is 13,000, I would say it was perfect.

Is it "perfect" or is it "scarcity". It cannot be both.

 

[JackofShadows]

Wow! Seven weeks for 2 Ancient Wonder upgrades sounds really hard to me. Maybe they've slowed it all down a little too much.
As far as spell fragments are missing I would recommend to do more spire and in return maybe a little less tournament.
I wish you good luck that your upgrades can be started earlier than expected!

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post, but that 7 weeks figure already assumes that I top the Spire every week and get 12K SFs from so doing. It also assumes 1K fragments per day spent in crafting, which I believe to be quite reasonable. so a net of 5K fragments per week for upgrading wonders.