Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[Dominionofgod]

You may be one of the edge cases they tried to capture.

i spent years at this point... (my god...has it been that long...) Im the player they should be sucking up to. Thats some dedication there lol.
But before this update, i was able to do a lot more then when i was able to at the start of this hold. Able to be a top tourney player in fs; full spire, have the room to go nuts in fa's. So i was able to be quite effective despite being still. - Im sure i still can, but some things might have to get adjusted. - Speaking of, was there a change to the unit training time or barracks? Iv heard a few ppl mention it but i havnt seen anything official about it that i recall.

 

[Henroo]

i spent years at this point... (my god...has it been that long...) Im the player they should be sucking up to. Thats some dedication there lol.
But before this update, i was able to do a lot more then when i was able to at the start of this hold. Able to be a top tourney player in fs; full spire, have the room to go nuts in fa's. So i was able to be quite effective despite being still. - Im sure i still can, but some things might have to get adjusted. - Speaking of, was there a change to the unit training time or barracks? Iv heard a few ppl mention it but i havnt seen anything official about it that i recall.

The max benefit of Needles, Victory Springs, and Flying Academy increased. So: if you have very high level versions of these wonders, the training speed of your barracks, training grounds, and mercenary camp increased. Most players did not notice this because Dwarven Bulwark and Shrine of Shrooms also got more powerful. I did notice the increase in training speed. However: despite the fact that I actually have a higher training speed in all 3 buildings, the duration of my training queue increased due to the buff given to Dwarven Bulwark and Shine of Shrooms. The increase for Shrine of Shrooms was very high for me. I went from roughly a 13 hour queue to an 18 hour queue. And most of that was due to Shrine.

 

[Mykan]

Shrine of Shrooms also got more powerful.

Well it didn't get more powerful just different. For many it may appear more powerful, but there are a number of players where it is now worse. Another example of inno trying to wipe out edge cases.

 

[AussieChick]

Ok, so my Sanctuary was at 30 and full of KP.
I have filled the rune ring, and now they want 31,000 Spell Fragments.
Any idea how they expect us to get them?

 

[Henroo]

Well it didn't get more powerful just different. For many it may appear more powerful, but there are a number of players where it is now worse. Another example of inno trying to wipe out edge cases.

Dwarven Bulwark was so much better for most players in the end game phase than Shrine of Shrooms before the update. Now I do realize there were a limited number of players with 12 or more maxed armories in the end game phase. And that for these players, Shine of Shrooms became more effective than Dwarven Bulwark.
The counter point I would offer to this is: if you have that many maxed armories in your city then you already have a very high training size. Essentially: if you had enough armories in your city that Shine of Shooms was better than Dwarven Bulwark, then you really did not need Shrine of Shrooms anymore. Just having that many armories was enough training size.
The final thought I would leave you with is: most of the players with massive numbers of armories were highly dependent on Martial Monastery/Sanctuary and Watchtower Ruins for culture. These builds got nuked by the culture reduction. If they wish to continue, it is highly likely they will reduce the number of armories. So even if there had not been a change to how Shine of Shrooms calculates its benefits, the cities which benefited most from it before the update would have seen it decrease in effectiveness.

 

[Mykan]

I think more towns than you indicated were impacted but have no numbers and don't know the precise amount of armouries. I was pretty sure it was way less than 12 for shrooms to be better than bulwark (soggy probably has a post somewhere non it). The point was it was not a universal buff, it was town dependent and could easily go either way. The hit to culture doesn't mean a thing in terms of armouries, it again is town dependent and each player will determine how many armouries they need for their life and their town. I lost 1.6M in culture and don't recall removing an armoury to fix the issue.

 

[Honeybubbles]

Shrooms went down around 25% in training size in my Halflings city with only 5 armories. From 4050 down to 3173. It was way better than Bullwark...

 

[Rowdiesaurus]

how do I get all these spell fragments? I play the spire, but looks like I cannot upgrade a single wonder, not even close to having enough. is there a building that makes them? And what to do with the relics? are they still needed for any thing?

 

[Rowdiesaurus]

I am sad about my DA, I loved it because it had great value, was about to have it at lvl 30, but that will never happen now for 2 reasons, it's not as valuable of a wonder, and I cannot afford it.

 

[BrinDarby]

There are a few things current being used by mgmt,
that can't have been originally designed this way.....
Expansions (placed land)
Buy KP
Royal Restorations

Now, there's always been the tradeoff of BPs and RRs.
Both upgrade bldgs, 1 does magic stuff, 1 special bldgs.
We've also had the debate when Spire got chg'd last
time about SFs, which also caused a chg to MA bonuses.
Inno decided to Nerf down SFs/CCs, but now they have
chg'd AWs, so now there's a whole new need for both.

When it comes to RRs/BPs, they are the ONLY THING that
Noone can workaround to make more. There's only 1 place
to get them, and very small qtys...... in Tournaments.
You can't build bldgs like Moonestone to boost RRs.
You can't frag stuff for more RRs , therefore its the 1 thing
that even parked cities will NOT have a huge buildup of.
Going up just 1 CH, might cost 300-500 RRs.
( yes I know fragging got chg'd , but only if you sell/frag the stuff noone would,
the reg crappy stuff is still worthless )

While there are a couple bldgs that give CCs other than
the MS mainpiece, at best we might a shot at one, once
a year, but then with $$$$ ppl can just get multiples.

Inno has the huge problem right now..... that if they give
players a way to get more CCs/SFs to help in upgrading
AWs, they run the risk of some ppl just using them to
flip the MA bonus chest and rack up diam/stuff, thus
another big nerf comes to V V bonuses. So be carefull
for what you wish for, and you know Inno will never
return to letting ppl win multiples of the MS set.

Inno has reinforced the have's and the have not's.....
they have slowed progression in general, and with
each chg, "variety" in playstyles are being eliminated.
At the same time new and insidious paywalls are being
put up, 7 years of players tweaking thier cities is totally
being obliterated and jumbled up.

this is my visulization of the AW chgs :

This was created after listening to all the complaints
and comments over the past week/10 days.

 

[Pheryll]

Shrooms went down around 25% in training size in my Halflings city with only 5 armories. From 4050 down to 3173. It was way better than Bullwark...

If you go through chapter 21, then it will be 10 armories that you would need for the original shroom equation to be better. The shrooms does lose out late game, and the ramping up of squad size following chapter 20 allows even greater gains than the linear armory level equation.

 

[Pheryll]

I was pretty sure it was way less than 12 for shrooms to be better than bulwark (soggy probably has a post somewhere non it).

At the end of chapter 21 it was 10 armories needed. What Soggy had beforehand changed with the chapters because squad size increases were a quadratic function while armory level was a linear one.

 

[Darielle]

I am sad about my DA, I loved it because it had great value, was about to have it at lvl 30, but that will never happen now for 2 reasons, it's not as valuable of a wonder, and I cannot afford it.

My heart goes out especially to new players. They're going to find it impossible to get all the spell frags. I noticed that they offered frags for sale for diamonds yesterday. I'm really angry they couldn't even wait 24 hours before proving this was all about dollars, not at all about helping players. The update sucks.

 

[muffy.]

Several questions on spell fragments….besides disenchanting the items in inventory, where else can you get the spell fragments, considering an upgrade is now 16 to 17k ?

 

[Myne]

Several questions on spell fragments….besides disenchanting the items in inventory, where else can you get the spell fragments, considering an upgrade is now 16 to 17k ?

We haven't figured that out yet.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Several questions on spell fragments….besides disenchanting the items in inventory, where else can you get the spell fragments, considering an upgrade is now 16 to 17k ?

That was the problem even before this update. Thats why it annoys me so much.
The spire was rly only providing enough frags and catalysts to cover selective crafting. Not enough to craft everything i would like to.
So then inno added frag use for the cauldron. And in far to high a number.... but with no more frags to aquire. - I simply never use any there,
And now they added frag and catalyst use for upgrading aw's. Again, with no extra way to get any..... >>><<<

Im strapped on both catalysts and frags on only crafting military buildings, pet food, and 50/100% supply instant. And thats with skipping the vitality surges. With the new military unit boost buildings, i can be at a negative. - Especially since in the spire, only the first encounter per group (1 of 4 fights) has a chance of giving catalysts. And only a 20% chance at that. And im running catalysts in magic acadamey 24/7. Still cant keep up. Now its going to get even worse...

 

[BrinDarby]

Moonstone Lib set = 525/day or 15,750/month.
Doing lvl 1 & 2 in Spire can be another 5k or 20k/mo.

Realistically thats 35k/mo , I'm guessing a Max of
50k if ya do all the Spire, and collect sooner than
once a day on MS set. BUT, thats if you don't use
any in your MA all month. Beyond that its frag city.

 

[muffy.]

Ive attached this link to the Ancient Wonders section in the Sorcerers Scrolls of Knowledge, its easier access and easier to compare the old values with the new requirements

 

[Myne]

That was the problem even before this update. Thats why it annoys me so much.
The spire was rly only providing enough frags and catalysts to cover selective crafting. Not enough to craft everything i would like to.
So then inno added frag use for the cauldron. And in far to high a number.... but with no more frags to aquire. - I simply never use any there,
And now they added frag and catalyst use for upgrading aw's. Again, with no extra way to get any..... >>><<<

Im strapped on both catalysts and frags on only crafting military buildings, pet food, and 50/100% supply instant. And thats with skipping the vitality surges. With the new military unit boost buildings, i can be at a negative. - Especially since in the spire, only the first encounter per group (1 of 4 fights) has a chance of giving catalysts. And only a 20% chance at that. And im running catalysts in magic acadamey 24/7. Still cant keep up. Now its going to get even worse...

I am in the same boat. RRs have always been scarce and every time we have asked for a way to get more they have said no. I had always assumed they valued them more than bluprints. I have passed disappointed and become ensconced in disgusted. A building that produces RRs wouldn't even get them out of this mess IMHO.

 

[muffy.]

That was the problem even before this update. Thats why it annoys me so much.
The spire was rly only providing enough frags and catalysts to cover selective crafting. Not enough to craft everything i would like to.
So then inno added frag use for the cauldron. And in far to high a number.... but with no more frags to aquire. - I simply never use any there,
And now they added frag and catalyst use for upgrading aw's. Again, with no extra way to get any..... >>><<<

Im strapped on both catalysts and frags on only crafting military buildings, pet food, and 50/100% supply instant. And thats with skipping the vitality surges. With the new military unit boost buildings, i can be at a negative. - Especially since in the spire, only the first encounter per group (1 of 4 fights) has a chance of giving catalysts. And only a 20% chance at that. And im running catalysts in magic acadamey 24/7. Still cant keep up. Now its going to get even worse...

Seems I'm doing the same as you . Maybe they will offer a new way or increase the qtys they give now.... theres always hope