Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[TimeMachine]

Inno refuses to sell all the little menushia we all have said we'd
pay diamonds for, but stuff that which too many players have
spent hundreds of dollars for get invalidated.... creates the
very environment where less and less ppl pay $$$ or quit.

I am totally with you on this one. I've never bought diamonds but due to the changes I lost some strong playing fellows who probably did in the past.
One of them said that this abrupt change to the game mechanics made him quit.
My first fellowship has lost it's strongest tournament-player.
And of course he was and is not the only one who felt or feels kind of fooled.

I think the "mistake" in mindset is to think that a player just pays for having a wonder on a higher stage or for completing the latest research for example although it definetly is like that in game.

I guess one should think about how much hours, days, months or even years of entertainment @InnoGames provided and what a reasonable price would be for that.

To me one thing was pretty early very clear in Elvenar: "The route is and stays the goal!"

 

[BrinDarby]

@TimeMachine , ( hypothetical senario )

take player A, B, and C, so 3 players.....
Lets also say 1 of them is willing to pay Inno
20$ a month, 2 are a F2P players. Lets then say
a chg ia made and 1 stops paying in, and the
other two start paying in 10$/mo. The balance
sheet only shows $20/mo is still comming in.
It doesn't matter from whom, 20$ is 20$. My
point is : It doesn't matter who pays, just that
as many as possible pay in to the game. When
there are glaring obstacles stopping ppl from
paying in, mgmt is basically shooting themselves
in foot, or killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Everyone (inno/playerbase) touts "balancing",
yet there seems to be 1 exception. (P2P players)
Its hard enough to "balance" between endgame
players and newbs, but its exponentially harder
to balance things between P2P players and the
rest of us.

1 of the Biggest blockers to more revenue is the
fact that InnoGames ToS =/= Elvenar ToS. There is
and always has been, massive cheating/pushing/farming,
whatever ya wanna call it..... but if there less staff now,
its even harder to have the manpower to eliminate
the cheating/ect. It hurts the game AND Inno's bottom line.

When F2P players can sell to the P2P players, the F2P players
become P2P players, because they encourage and drive $$$
sales. That cannot happen without 1st eliminating the cheating.

My use of "Cheating" is my opinion and I am fully aware that
because Inno ToS and Elvenar ToS are different and I will be
told its not cheating.... thats why I'm saying its my opinion.

When players hit the wall where there's nothing really left to
buy yet they still have $$$ to spend, whats wrong with buying
stuff/res from players for diam which may/may not have been
bought with $$$, yet once you're outta diam, you have to start
buying them with $$$ so the simple fact you're draining down
ppls diamond stockpiles is more important then where they
came from ( bought/earned ).

 

[Glandeh]

As you can see in the spoiler it is 8x Trading Station.

One Trading Station delivers 1x 10% Portal Profit every 24h hours, since it is Dwarven-Chapter or a higher chapter.
So I gain 8x 10% Portal Profit per day.

When I disentchant them I get 800 spell fragments for each. 8x 800 spell fragments /24h makes 6400 spell fragments per day.

Edit: The Trading stations expire after 50 days, so if you win one in spire and decide to disenchant all the Portal Profits it delivers 40K of spell fragments spread over 50 days.
As far as spell fragments are concerned the Trading Station is the new "Jackpot" in spire.

You have strange Trading Stations @TimeMachine. Mine produce the 10% PP in 48 hours. But I still like them for the fragments

 

[TimeMachine]

It doesn't matter from whom, 20$ is 20$. My
point is : It doesn't matter who pays, just that
as many as possible pay in to the game.

Agreed and I guess @InnoGames would agree with you too on this point.
They should have a natural interest in increasing the number of P2P players.

Everyone (inno/playerbase) touts "balancing",
yet there seems to be 1 exception. (P2P players)
Its hard enough to "balance" between endgame
players and newbs, but its exponentially harder
to balance things between P2P players and the
rest of us.

To me it always seemed like the balancing between endgamers and newbies was and is well done and i found it very intersting to learn a little more about the game and how it all works together with each new chapter.

Of course it it is exponentially harder to balance between P2P players and F2P players. @InnoGames created much gray areas for that.
For example Magic Residences and Magic Workshops can be bought and be won in the spire.

Because I got lots of Magic Residences and lots of Magic Workshops (all won in spire) fellows and other players were often thinking that I've bought those.
If I try to switch perspectives now, it is possible to buy magic buildings or Premium Expansions for example without being recognized as a P2P player.
I don't know about it but I can imagine that a lot of players who already bought big or small amount of diamonds, don't want others to know that they had spent or are spending real money ingame.
So this is probably not just balancing but an gray area.

About two years ago, I was looking at top ranked cities and thought that all them magic buildings I could see in them big cities were bought, today I know that they could be bought or captured in spire.

It was a hobby of mine for a while to determine if some of my fellows are buying diamonds. One of whom I was pretty sure that he did purchase diamonds confessed it first after several months . He said in the past he paid 50 - 100$ for a game he was sometimes just playing for a month or so. And because he liked to spend much time in Elvenar it was his intention to pay for that game he liked so much.
Sounded very reasonable to me! By the way he wasn't on for about two months now - another long time fellow that, i fear, will probably quit the game.

Another fellow who I would have never suspected to buy diamonds then wrote that Elvenar is a very expensive game.
I was pretty shocked sometimes when people told me what they were using their diamonds for and always tried to explain how it could work without them.
And Yes I know how expensive the last Premium Expansions are and of course I know that the last 33 Province Expansions are only available against diamonds.
Another of my long time fellows who had already competed all chapters was saving up diamonds for one year just to be able to unlock the next Premium Expansion.
A few weeks later he just remained offline completley without saying a word and until today nobody knows what happend to him. Was playing about a year in the same fs with him and was wondering how he could manage and endure to be the only fellow in that fs who did 10K of points and more every week.
What I would like to say that selling diamonds to players can maybe be easier if for example the fellows won't be able to recognize those buys.

I always wondered about why @InnoGames was always trying not to offer too strong advantages for P2P players. I guess that this would put money into the till. For example them culture buildings that can be bought with diamonds cannot be upgraded in any way, not even in the next chapter. Why should I invest in those "disposable goods", made only sense to me if I really would like to spend much diamonds in the game.
They always said P2P players shouldn't be able to buy too strong advantages because Elvenar is just a "pay-to-play-faster" not a "pay-to-win"

I guess they wanted to eliminate the well known phenomenon that players quit the game very shortly after their first buy.
A friend of mine who is, in contrast to me, really into gaming once said to me that after buying the first goal in an browser game it often felt very boring shortly after the first purchase because one is able to buy everything now - doesn' have to play anymore.

To me the charm of being able to come along without buying diamonds was always predominant because to me it always felt like a greater challenge.

To shorten it up, to me it would be no problem if P2P players would be able to purchase greater advantages than there are now atm.
But it seems like @InnoGames doesn't want that to happen.

For those who are thinking they will have to buy CCs, spell fragments or RR in the future, I would say of course you can but you don't have to.
With enough patience on your way everything comes for free in Elvenar and I guess this hasn't changed and wil not be changed.
One thing I really like the most about Elvenar is that it is the best patience-trainer I've ever had!

There is
and always has been, massive cheating/pushing/farming,
whatever ya wanna call it

Yes there are some possibilities of cheating, but that never interested me very much. No need to push my own cities, much more fun pushing my fellows. Back in the days I was like "the most reported gamer" on my home server, just because others got envious or afraid of my progress.
Got checked several times but I didn't do no pushing or anything else at all.
To me it is not important if it is a freak cheating, a good organized gamer plaxing hard or a P2P player spending money to overtake on the ranking list.

When players hit the wall where there's nothing really left to
buy yet they still have $$$ to spend, whats wrong with buying
stuff/res from players for diam which may/may not have been
bought with $$$

Sounds like a very good idea to me! If it would be designed in a way that both playerbase and @InnoGames could profit from, it could be a very interesting feature I guess.

You have strange Trading Stations @TimeMachine. Mine produce the 10% PP in 48 hours. But I still like them for the fragments

Thank you very much @Glandeh I am afraid that you are right - I will correct myself now.

My only excuse for that would be that my days have 48h because 24h isn't and has never been enough.

 

[BrinDarby]

It has been mentioned along the lines of....
what is tied to what, and does that scale correctly.

The majority were tied to SS, and a player's SS touches
other things. Inno has the internal data on SS, therefore
just a tweak to the formula would allow it be tied to CH
not SS, yet in reality using SS per CH, thus still tied to
SS for scaling reasons. What this cleverly does is Not
effect anything else in the process, while doing the exact
same thing and with the same metrics, for AWs.

Even tho I'm dumbfounded that the next 10 CHs are only
possible if the 1st 20 CHs/game are/is chg'd, by only chg'n
small chunks and releasing them.... rather than doing all the
chgs and then releasing it all @ once, those players that now
in need of a huge re-do of thier city/plans/playstyle, can be
confident that the chgs they make will stick. Otherwise us
players are trying to roll with the chgs, but how we chg.. can't
just change again 1-2mo later as the next chunk is released.

We have the chgs themselves, and the cost chgs to upgrade.
this post only addresses the changes themselves, which are
in conjunction with the other chgs in the game.

 

[Astram]

I think you are wrong by denigrating players who had massive numbers of armories in their cities.

To be fair I was using that an example that I have heard many times in the Discord Wonder Feedback. And it was in response to a comment from @BrinDarby that said
"most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now ..."
That I took exception to as being not supported in truth.

 

[AussieChick]

You all say stuff I can mostly agree with, but I firmly believe that the new owners of Inno are 100% doing all this to force everyone to spend diamonds = real money, to get ahead.
I have always upgraded my AW's as they were ready, but now have no hope as they all sit waiting for spell frags.
Once they are all full?
Game over.

 

[BrinDarby]

I did what now, ohhh good grief Charlie Brown
Where's Lucy , someone needs psychiactric help for 5c

 

[BrinDarby]

@Astram , where's the full quote please ?
Which post, what date and time please.....

 

[Astram]

@Astram , where's the full quote please ?
Which post, what date and time please.....

Feedback - Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

New thought - The new rules mean players that finish the last chapter will leave. Many of those players buy or did buy lots of diamonds. But what does a player do buried in KPs, Shards and KP instants do in the game? Wait for a build up of Spell Fragments? I guess they could convert the KP...

us.forum.elvenar.com

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]BrinDarby​

​

• Thursday at 8:36 PM

"most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now,
might as well wait for CH 11-15 then CH 16-21 chgs...
because you know they're a comm'n, and if they are
anything like the CH 1-5, 6-10 chgs you might as well
wait so ya know how to rebuild stuff correctly."


Did you think I just made it up? and FYI if you need Lucy for Psych Help well ....

 

[BrinDarby]

To be fair I was using that an example that I have heard many times in the Discord Wonder Feedback. And it was in response to a comment from @BrinDarby that said
"most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now ..."
That I took exception to as being not supported in truth.

most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now,
might as well wait for CH 11-15 then CH 16-21 chgs...
because you know they're a comm'n, and if they are
anything like the CH 1-5, 6-10 chgs you might as well
wait so ya know how to rebuild stuff correctly.

Great, lets unpack this, shall we.

You stuck your foot in your mouth in a very un-Mod
fashion, then blamed me for your indesgression.....

"most ppl that lost out" is NOT "most ppl playing the game"
"might as well wait ........" is self explanatory......

so you claim my statement wasn't truthfull, but thats false....
Yet the context is "of the ppl that lost out" even if thats only
a small % of all players, and continues on..... might as well wait.
Thats 100% truthfull in the context I was saying, because the
point was, why re-do everything toword a certain goal, then
have more chgs that just negate all the re-do they just did.

is English your 2nd language, my god Astram get off my back
untill you can correctly understand context in the english language.

 

[Pheryll]

Thats 100% truthfull in the context I was saying, because the
point was, why re-do everything toword a certain goal, then
have more chgs that just negate all the re-do they just did.

Many people in chapter 21 did rebuild or store their massive number of armories, in anticipation of the new chapters. Not everyone kept their "perfect city" intact just for tournament use.

 

[TimeMachine]

Not everyone kept their "perfect city"

Back in the days when there was the QAs on facebook I learned from Tiago that Elvenar should always invite to rearrange and change cities.

Of course I l know the benefits of running a temporally "perfect" city but isn't that boring somehow? Having everything perfect no need to think of trying out any changes?

I guess that from the devs perspective Elvenar should have never been this rigid, I guess they want it to be more dynamic.
Except those who have already finished last chapter everybody should be invited to go ahead in research to reach the new chapter.

To me it seems like that is why humans and elves are now getting kind of "rewarded" for selling old buildings.
Another point is that one who has lots of event-buildings which she or he maybe used a lot of RR, is now saving RRs for wonder upgrades.

In my opion this leads humans and elves to not to stay in a chapter for too long and using their RRs on them beloved sets and event-buildings.
@InnoGames invites humans and elves not to park their cities and restore them to "perfect" but to reach the new chapter and to take part in upcoming events.

They might think that by this change the general activity can be raised. This seems to be right for those who will still take the challenge.
But to me (I am playing in 9 friendships) it seems like humans and elves are not willing to take this new challenge.
For example, they are slowing down or even stopping their wonder resarches, if they don't have already quitted the game.

Maybe this new challenge seemed a little too hard for a big number of players.
At the moment I live in constant fear of loosing more fellows, than I've already lost due to the new changes.

I know players that have already upgrade all wonders to the maximum and I am pretty sure that everybody of them would agree that they haven't really needed all them wonder levels to finish a chapter or to take part in spire and tournament.
In my eyes it seems like nobody really needs all wonders on maximum stage. Mostly it is about ranking-points at the top of the ranking-list!

So just don't give up to hasty, I am pretty sure that @InnoGames will add more "balancing stuff" (like the new recipe for example) at latest when they've recognized that humans and elves in big numbers are running out of spell fragments or RRs completeley - hopefully earlier!

I hope it will be somehow like when I play the spire too hard with my smaller cities and ran out of tools and supply windfalls, I often find a crafting offer for a 100% supply windfall in my magic academy.

What I wanted to say is: "Yes the game is becoming a little harder but maybe much more exiting as well.
Don't judge to early! This game is a dynamic system that can be changed in so many ways - we will see what comes next.

 

[Rowdiesaurus]

We have lost a lot of players, and not sure how to replace them. The forum seems dead, I mean, how would new players know about it?. Noone looks at the posts for searching players. Any suggestions, I have 6 players missing, seems like things are falling apart quickly..

 

[BrinDarby]

@TimeMachine ,
I read your post 4 times. There are so many ways to
discuss it, leading to many tangents. It also relies on
players subscribing to Inno's premise of playstyle.

On the other hand I watch/read the announcements,
official views we're told, and actual events taking place.
If Inno says " we wanna do X" yet the chg "does Y", then
us players are left asking, "Are we just getting lied to ?"

You mentioned the new crafting recipies, but A) didn't
that just dilute the crafting que, when B) 12-18 months
ago we got the exact opposite craftings, for the opposite
reason. So thats like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.
You're not addressing the root cause, only kicking the
can down the road so to speak, with weak mitigation.
It is playing whack-a-mole, but not with the game...
with the players's playstyles themselves.

Elvenar succeeded ... by attracting a broad demographic
of people, offering many playstyles, keeping the game
pretty darn simple, being non confrontational ( not PvP ),
and based on cooperation not competition. Elvenar seems
to now be failing by going against its core strengths, along
with eroding the trust of its playerbase in Inno's vision.
Elvenar is not ForgeofEmpires and attracts a different kind
of player. If players want FoE, then go play FoE.

Its illogical, if the new CH's can't work without rebalancing,
to not just rebalance the whole game once, then release it.
Unless "you're" a P2P player, all the rebalancing seems to
be making everyone else's cities mediocre. Its also illogical
to claim you are fostering progression, yet on the gound....
the opposite is occurring.

(to me and others) Elvenar is no longer "Fun to play" its a J.O.B,
F2P players and Casual players need not apply. Would "anyone"
go buy a Corvette, then while its in for an oil chg, the dealership
installs a chevette engine because the overall speed limits were
lowered ??? Of course they wouldn't .... (to me and others) The
basic trust between customer and company, has been broken.

TimeMachine, you mention it being more dynamic not rigid, yet
again on the ground its exactly more and more rigid every day.
Any 1 chg on the surface can easily be explained away, yet when
taken in aggregate cannot be.

I'd love to share your enthusiasm, I just cannot. Its both illogical
and innefficient, not to make 1 chg and solve a root cause of an
issue/problem instead of 5-6 mini chgs, becuse Elvenar is so
interconnected, 1 chg can force other necessary chgs due to the
Law of unintended consequences.

Perfect example was Spire prize chgs(nerf), facilitating MA bonus
chest chgs(nerf) and MA crafting chgs that got us the (2) craftings
for CCs costing SFs, only now to be given (3) crafting options of
the exact opposite..... now costing CCs for SFs, and not "fair" when
you compare 2 opposite offers that should be just the same offer
in reverse.

Ohh and "keeping a perfect city", as you progress, is just as legitimate
as having the goal of a high ranking city or any other playstyle premise.

 

[Lelanya]

We have lost a lot of players, and not sure how to replace them. The forum seems dead, I mean, how would new players know about it?. Noone looks at the posts for searching players. Any suggestions, I have 6 players missing, seems like things are falling apart quickly..

I would advertise on Discord.

 

[Rowdiesaurus]

I cannot use discord, it's not good ui, totally not user friendly. Can't find anything. Also, can't login after several tries, seems like an unreasonable waste of my time . What was wrong with the forum??

 

[AussieChick]

I cannot use discord, it's not good ui, totally not user friendly. Can't find anything. Also, can't login after several tries, seems like an unreasonable waste of my time . What was wrong with the forum??

Not sure how much money Inno earns by forcing us to use DIscord.
I am not giving another social media all my personal information.
That's what discord is.
Another change we did not want!
Why dismantle our forum?

 

[Astram]

... Why dismantle our forum?

At this time the Forums are still here and nothing has changed in that regard

 

[AussieChick]

At this time the Forums are still here and nothing has changed in that regard

Sorry but you are very wrong!!
I am unable to access the forum from my game any longer.
The options are Wiki and Discord.
Stop kidding yourself!!