Recruiting Frustrations

[DeletedUser1108]

Now I already know that this will not reach the audience for which it is intended, but I feel the need to vent. When a top 10, 20, 30, likely all the way down to at least 100 fellowship is down a player and recruiting, we are all besieged by a flood of 1 week or less players trying to join. I DO understand THEIR motivation, but they never bother to read your front page and see what it is you are seeking. It is nearly impossible for a larger fellowship to take on a player who is easily a year away from from being able to offer any kind of actual help to your fellowship members. Newbies have no reference to be able to understand that (I guess, I saw it when I started, but...I'm trying to give some slack.) and on the couple of times I actually answered someone and attempted to explain, I received obscene responses and my attempts to refer them to suitable fellowships were spurned. I've taken to simply deleting the applications and messages, but it seems rude to me and I wish there was some way to offer an explanation as to why a game measured in years of play should work this way.

 

[SoggyShorts]

For your FS:
Ideal Candidate
Would have a score around 221983 and would have one or more of the following boosts: scrolls, magic_dust

The problem is that pretty much everyone who fits that description already has a FS.

It is nearly impossible for a larger fellowship to take on a player who is easily a year away from from being able to offer any kind of actual help to your fellowship members.

I think this is only true if you care about FS rank. We take in brand new day 1 cities, and within a month they can pull their weight in the tournament, which is really all the help you need from FS members(and the FA). I don't imagine that a top 10 FS needs much in the way of goods balancing if they are only down 1 member.

Much more important than size is activity. Visits are the same for chapter 1 and chapter 12, tournaments are scaled, so as soon as a player unlocks enough provinces to get 1600 points, they can do it. In fact if you have smaller players it can actually be better because you can feed them goods that allow them to do far more in the tournament than you could.

For example instead of catering province #30 two times, you give those goods to a small player who can use them to clear 4 or 5 extra provinces two times.
If you find that uneven, they could always donate the KP to you, and they get to keep the relics. win-win.

I'm not saying we don't need better matchmaking tools (and elvenstats is working on it as well) but I don't think small players necessarily hurt a FS.

 

[DeletedUser1108]

For your FS:
Ideal Candidate
Would have a score around 221983 and would have one or more of the following boosts: scrolls, magic_dust

The problem is that pretty much everyone who fits that description already has a FS.

I think this is only true if you care about FS rank. We take in brand new day 1 cities, and within a month they can pull their weight in the tournament, which is really all the help you need from FS members(and the FA). I don't imagine that a top 10 FS needs much in the way of goods balancing if they are only down 1 member.

Much more important than size is activity. Visits are the same for chapter 1 and chapter 12, tournaments are scaled, so as soon as a player unlocks enough provinces to get 1600 points, they can do it. In fact if you have smaller players it can actually be better because you can feed them goods that allow them to do far more in the tournament than you could.

For example instead of catering province #30 two times, you give those goods to a small player who can use them to clear 4 or 5 extra provinces two times.
If you find that uneven, they could always donate the KP to you, and they get to keep the relics. win-win.

I'm not saying we don't need better matchmaking tools (and elvenstats is working on it as well) but I don't think small players necessarily hurt a FS.

If you only consider the tourney possibilities, you are right, but a large fellowship DOES have goods balancing issues and when you are consistently lacking Magic Dust for instance, not because of raw player numbers, but because of relative size and production differences, you'd have to be out of your mind to accept a player who is nowhere near large enuff to provide any help at all anytime in the next year! Bigger fellowships have much bigger appetites, in a tourney that requires lots of Dust we go thru well over 100k in Dust! Those of us who are primarily fighters go thru less, but lots of folks cater more than they fight and that doesn't even take into consideration the research, upgrades and other demands. Someone who can't possibly provide even a smidgen of that need is just not an option...it isn't their fault, it is just how the game works. I am very dedicated to keeping my folks fed! The availability issue is not quite what it seems when you only look at free players: plenty of folks are uncomfortable in their current fellowships for a wide variety of reasons. They may be oversized, bad personality fits, dissatisfaction with tourneys or trading...most of the time I either spot a likely candidate or they come knocking on their own.

 

[SoggyShorts]

a large fellowship DOES have goods balancing issues and when you are consistently lacking Magic Dust for instance

Perhaps. I do see your FS has a slight deficit in Magic dust, but surely that can be overcome with trades on the world map? Have a look at my FS, we are pretty badly unbalanced, and yet we never have trades that last more than a few hours up, and while we are not a top 10 ranked FS, we are a top 5 tournament ranked FS. I suppose it's possible that we are lucky with trading partners on the map though(or your FS is unlucky)

The availability issue is not quite what it seems when you only look at free players: plenty of folks are uncomfortable in their current fellowships for a wide variety of reasons. They may be oversized, bad personality fits, dissatisfaction with tourneys or trading...most of the time I either spot a likely candidate or they come knocking on their own.

While we may not have done all that we could to recruit, it took my FS a very long time to fill up with players that have the same attitude and goals, if we'd been picky about size we'd still be short 5 players. As is we ended up recruiting from our FS on another server. In 2 full FS we only have 38 unique players.

You're not wrong, and you certainly can't be a top 10 FS doing it my way. I just have a different order to the requirements for joining my fellowships.
The way we play, there is no difference at all between a player with 50K score or 250K score if they each do 7 visits and 1600+ points in the tournament.
DERP recruiting priorities:
Activity(inc tournaments) >>personality>>>boosts>>>>>starting size.

Starting size will always be at the bottom for us, because it's realistically the only one that will change.

 

[Ashrem]

Have a look at my FS, we are pretty badly unbalanced, and yet we never have trades that last more than a few hours up

It's worth noting that a couple of players who have been around long enough to be in a busy area can carry a lot of the balancing for the whole fellowship. I am lucky enough that I can frequently use my nearby neighbors to swap around most of what my FS is seeking, and come out fairly neutral on the whole thing. If a FS happens to not have any (or many) active players who are also in a busy area, or if those that are don't think about performing that service for their group, it is an entirely different situation.

 

[DeletedUser6375]

I think it's somewhat a problem to recruit ideal candidates. I've posted on the Platinum Leaf Group on facebook, i've posted on the forums here and we'll even change our name to (Recruiting) and we'll go weeks without anyone besides new players applying. We're rank 46 right now, and it feels like a desert when trying to get anyone over 10k. Alot of our recruits have all been me mailing people directly by seeing they're in a dying FS and making sure they are active by seeing that they have newish event buildings, and probing if they are interested in joining us. It really seems to be the only way we get the players we want.

There does seem to be a disconnect between players who might not exactly be happy in their current FS and a way to connect them to FS's that need them. Especially if it's Like something where the players will only move if they can bring 1 or 2 others.. not quite on the level of a FS merger but still sometimes we'll only have 1 slot.

I think Elvenstats is amazing, (specially the link to Elvenar Architect) I'm hoping you can find a way to matchmake people for FS's. that would be really helpful. I know for me, using your page will make it easier for me to scout dying fellowships for new recruits.

Maybe make something for Archmages to set FS tags Like maybe the #1 FS is "Hardcore", "Gem Buyers" , "300k+", "10th chest every week" and maybe others like mine would be "Relaxed", "Nerds", "Old People", "5th chest 4 ever"

lol.


p.s. - Elvenstats shows my Archmage inactive, but he's been on everyday. I think he's primarily on mobile, so i'm not sure if that has something to do with it? But he just recently built a bunch of level 1 stuff for the Event, and i also made sure to Update. (NO I WILL NOT REBOOT MY COMPUTER AND CLEAR MY CACHE!)


-- DB.

 

[SoggyShorts]

and we'll go weeks without anyone besides new players applying

The most effective for us was having our FS members reach out to their FS members on other servers.
e.g. We have a player like Mykan on Winy who also plays on Aren where we have no FS. He asks his FS there if anyone has a city on Winy.
This way you at least kinda know what sort of player you'll be getting.
The other way we got most of our recent additions that weren't DERPs on the other server was just from me being a loudmouth on the forums, at least this way they know what kind of FS they are getting

p.s. - Elvenstats shows my Archmage inactive

Best to use the "contact" form at the top of the page so they can have a look.

 

[DeletedUser16361]

@thedarkboo

Thanks for the kind words! RE: ElvenStats

I did some digging into why your AM appears as "Inactive". The way the algorithm works right now is it compares the scores from each week.
If no change for 14 days it puts the warning icon up.

In this players case the score hasn't changed since March 3rd. Perhaps they're queuing up a bunch of provinces in preparation for the next event.
ElvenStats doesn't know about when you login, etc. (Thank god, right?). So, as far as the privacy respecting computer algorithm is concerned... they appear inactive. Granted... said algorithm needs to get a bit smarter and also consider his tournament history because they're definitely active there.

Spoiler

I see that his score has increased this week so once the next round of snapshots go out on Sunday... that indicator should disappear.

Please feel free to reach out to me via contact link on www.elvenstats.com to discuss further offline privately.

 

[bkbajb]

Both of my FS have the same issue with finding players. I really do not care where a player ranks but I would just like to find active players. We will help you grow. I think a lot of new players see the amount of time that is needed to grow and that pushes them away. It is too bad. If they would just stick with it they would grow.

 

[DeletedUser6375]

I also tend to reach out to players i see active in the trader or those that visit me pretty consistently. But i will admit that it's getting kind of limiting.

My feeling is, that given enough time.. that everyone that actually plays long enough eventually whoever is left will all be in the same FS.

 

[HJK84]

A suggestion I could give. One which I still use on another gaming forum

Closed, applicants.
And in your Overview page, a contact name.
Once someone contacts without much detail about themselves, reply back by telling them to read Overview Page/Requirements, etc. Or have a pre-made message for them, copy/paste it into PM.
Most people will read it and either reply back with "sorry" or something similar, or they just won't reply back.

You can also keep, Applications Only. And do the same with a pre-made PM answer or advise them to read Overview.

I used to run a group of over 75ppl, and was top 15. Used to get tons of applicants, I was keen on following with the above info.

With accomplished groups, comes a tad more responsibility and as you're now realizing "stress" lol

We're both in the same World, so I bid you a:

Good luck!

 

[mucksterme]

When a top 10, 20, 30, likely all the way down to at least 100 fellowship is down a player and recruiting, we are all besieged by a flood of 1 week or less players trying to join. I DO understand THEIR motivation, but they never bother to read your front page and see what it is you are seeking

There is a problem with this complaint

Maybe not so much with the top twenty, but I guarantee if you would look at the overviews on the top 100 you will see most of them requiring something like "must have at least 30000 rating."
But then look at their member list and you'll see members with 5K or 10K.
So you can't expect people to take overviews seriously if the FS doesn't.

btw

I just recently took a flier on a member so new he didn't even have a trader yet. ( usually my minimum requirement to even consider someone)
We just lost a couple older players and I thought "Why not give someone new a chance and help them grow?"
I accepted him on a Thursday. Sent him a message giving him some advice ( get a trader asap. get into the tourney if possible to take advantage of the chests ).
On Monday I booted him because it was obvious from the two buildings he was upgrading that he had not logged in since being accepted.
Now people like that make me not want to take a chance on noobs.

 

[DeletedUser1108]

There is a problem with this complaint

Maybe not so much with the top twenty, but I guarantee if you would look at the overviews on the top 100 you will see most of them requiring something like "must have at least 30000 rating."
But then look at their member list and you'll see members with 5K or 10K.
So you can't expect people to take overviews seriously if the FS doesn't.

btw

I just recently took a flier on a member so new he didn't even have a trader yet. ( usually my minimum requirement to even consider someone)
We just lost a couple older players and I thought "Why not give someone new a chance and help them grow?"
I accepted him on a Thursday. Sent him a message giving him some advice ( get a trader asap. get into the tourney if possible to take advantage of the chests ).
On Monday I booted him because it was obvious from the two buildings he was upgrading that he had not logged in since being accepted.
Now people like that make me not want to take a chance on noobs.

I think what got missed in my original vent is that the vast majority of the players I was speaking of were players that were literally less than a week old and NONE of them had bothered to read the fellowship front page regarding boosts and score needs...when I look and see 4 bldgs in the city and none of the boosts I am requesting then it a waste of time.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I think what got missed in my original vent is that the vast majority of the players I was speaking of were players that were literally less than a week old and NONE of them had bothered to read the fellowship front page regarding boosts and score needs...when I look and see 4 bldgs in the city and none of the boosts I am requesting then it a waste of time.

I think the thrust of the complaint is very valid. It plagues really all aspects of FS management - there aren't good tools available (though @elvenstats) is helping on this front.
In your original post, you noted that you wanted to respond to newbies and help them out. Just don't bother. I helped with recruiting with my last FS, and my procedure was: 1. click "visit city" for each applicant, and 2. if the city was pre-dwarves, delete their application and move on.
The rare person (less than 1 in 10) that follows up, maybe then you give some thoughtful consideration about admitting them despite their city deficiencies.

But consider the other side of the coin. You're a newbie player. You may not even know what someone means when they say "only dust boosts apply." And it costs you nothing to apply to the top 500 fellowships, except a sore clicking finger. Worst case? You get 500 rejections. Best case? A good FS lets you in and helps you grow.

 

[mucksterme]

I think what got missed in my original vent is that the vast majority of the players I was speaking of were players that were literally less than a week old and NONE of them had bothered to read the fellowship front page regarding boosts and score needs...when I look and see 4 bldgs in the city and none of the boosts I am requesting then it a waste of time.

I think what you missed was my saying that many an FS lies on their front page so it is not surprising that people ignore them.

For example look at the last page of members of your own FS on F world

An FS that insist everyone be 200K

 

[DeletedUser5800]

you can't expect people to take overviews seriously if the FS doesn't.

We have that but it isn't because we don't take it seriously but because we have raised the min. since people joined that have not reached the new low bar as well as have accepted people that sent a message saying something to the affect of " I know I'm not quite as big as you require but I'm super active and would love to join."

I delete new accounts daily that apply having obviously paid no attention to anything, I used to leave them for a few weeks and see how fast they started but like 95% never grew at all so I just started deleting immediately and I'm still annoyed every day when I have to go look to see their tutorial city before I do it.

There should be a way to set a min. to apply OR at least show their score in the application page.

 

[DeletedUser1108]

It's worth noting that a couple of players who have been around long enough to be in a busy area can carry a lot of the balancing for the whole fellowship. I am lucky enough that I can frequently use my nearby neighbors to swap around most of what my FS is seeking, and come out fairly neutral on the whole thing. If a FS happens to not have any (or many) active players who are also in a busy area, or if those that are don't think about performing that service for their group, it is an entirely different situation.

I do the same as do several of my members, it is why we DO survive our deficit periods and recover relatively quickly...I suppose I am likely a bit to much of a mother hen about the issue, but I hate seeing fs trades last too long and seeing my Dust makers bleeding themselves dry. When my neighborhood big Dust guy puts a bunch up I always take most of it and push it out into the fellowship, then go about re-balancing myself for what I had to spend to do it. That doesn't change the fact that I still try to make us more self sufficient when I can.

 

[DeletedUser13002]

I'm not sure what sort of "tools" Inno could offer. Elvenstats has been a phenomenal help with this sort of thing so far, more than I would've expected. They offer a forum page here as well. Beyond that, I don't really see why this sort of thing falls under the devs' purview anyway. If we want the freedom to run our fellowships the way we want, each with its own rules and qwirks and personalities, it's up to each fellowship to figure out how to fill its needs. (The copy-and-paste method HJK84 mentioned above seems best to me.) What sort of matchmaking widget could Inno come up with that would solve all of these problems...?

The other way we got most of our recent additions that weren't DERPs on the other server was just from me being a loudmouth on the forums, at least this way they know what kind of FS they are getting

Watch it, folks ... he'll suck you in with this devious technique!

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I'm not sure what sort of "tools" Inno could offer.

When you apply, the application automatically shows your boosts and your chapter?
When you apply, it shows your last 4 tournament scores, and your last FA rank?
Players could put a flag or other icon that says "looking for fellowship"?
Archmage could see "last login" for players not in a fellowship?

Again, lots of stuff Elvenstats is doing, but lots of other games implement these sorts of things pretty easily and readily.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

I would be happy if they just added the score so I didn't have to look...