Recruiting Frustrations

[kctanzen]

Score is a good rule of thumb estimator -- further reviewing the actual city to get a feel of a player's emphasis (heavy factories / heavy military / balanced mix) and whether or not they have a big pile of event buildings. Event buildings, to my knowledge, don't impact scoring but can have a significant impact on relative power / efficiency of one city to another of similar expansion size and chapter progress.

** added ** -- in addition to score, date city was formed
Last login could potentially have privacy issues, but formation is relatively benign.

 

[samidodamage]

Event buildings, to my knowledge, don't impact scoring but can have a significant impact on relative power / efficiency of one city to another of similar expansion size and chapter progress.

They can also tell you something about the player's activity level. If there are Winter Stars in the city, for example and the city has just entered dwarves, that person might not be putting a lot of energy into playing that city. Or, they may take their sweet time in the tech tree and still be an active FS member. Either way, it makes it worth asking questions about their ability to commit to the required FS activity level.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. Event buildings, to my knowledge, don't impact scoring but can have a significant impact on relative power / efficiency of one city to another of similar expansion size and chapter progress.

This has long been a point of annoyance for me. A city that is in every way "better" by having more pop/culture/production/military/empty space etc can have a lower score simply because they have really good event buildings.

EDIT: I was just looking for another example of how scoring is messed up, and came across this:
My workshop with 155% culture makes 22K per day
My Endless Excavation makes 132K per day.
So if the EE is better for my city than 6 workshops, why does it give me less than 1,000 points, and a single workshop give over 4,000?

Hopefully in the future elvenstats can be even more helpful in match making. I know if I was going for a spot in one of the top FS but didn't have the score needed, I would direct them to my stats page so that they can see my tournament history.

 

[DeletedUser2424]

@kingcake I'm with ya on the spam part.

I'm the AM of the top ranked fellowship in Khelonaar... add to that we have 24/25 members. So I get it I'm begging to get harassed. (But, i'm waiting for @elvenstats to get their stuff together before I go hunting again lol... so hurry up jk)...

Originally, I was borderline paranoid... cause I would get some fricking crazy solicitations for ... stuff.

I used to be puzzled... My fellowship does not accept applicants. But, somehow these "newbies" know to message the Archmage?
So, you assume they read the fellowship message... well this is what ours says:

"If you meet the following requirements, apply by sending an email to BOTH fasdfTTT & dogball. To clarify, there should be 2 (two) names separated by a comma in the 'TO' line like this: fasdfTTT, dogball"​

I used to think everyone was completely incapable of reading... I changed that message over and over again... moved it up higher and higher etc... almost as an experiment to see if people could follow directions or not.

Then, I realized what was going on... thanks to this gem of a message:

Spoiler

You got a bunch of horn dogs coming in here... only typing with one hand... thinking they get into fellowship to have like virtual sex with elves or something...

Just look at the message i got today that i didn't delete yet...

Spoiler

 

[DeletedUser5800]

You got a bunch of horn dogs coming in here... only typing with one hand... thinking they get into fellowship to have like virtual sex with elves or something...

You never noticed how many tiny cities have 'hook-up' names? LOL They have an ad floating around with blatant porn that says it's the number 1 adult game on the net.

Spoiler: Ad

I had to be really careful about how I cut that lest I extremely violate the ToS with the image that goes with it. It's been brought up before, they claim they have nothing to do with it, but it has been floating around for yrs. For the record all I did was google search "Elvenar Ad" which anyone sensitive or under 18 should definitely not do.

 

[Ashrem]

My workshop with 155% culture makes 22K per day
My Endless Excavation makes 132K per day.
So if the EE is better for my city than 6 workshops, why does it give me less than 1,000 points, and a single workshop give over 4,000?

Because rank is based on effort/cost, not output? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that rank is the reward for effort, and that buildings which cost several time as much and take up more space should provide more rank

 

[SoggyShorts]

Because rank is based on effort/cost, not output? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that rank is the reward for effort, and that buildings which cost several time as much and take up more space should provide more rank

Interesting. I honestly would never think of ranking to be a measurement of how hard you work- in most things your rank is determined by results.
The #1 ranked car isn't the one that was hardest to build, or used the most expensive materials.
It's the fastest/safest/has the best handling etc. The cost and effort used to make the car isn't even a factor when you compare 2 vehicles.
You would never think a product is better if it used more expensive but inferior materials.

In Elvenar as long as you spend more working pop and culture you get a better score....even if you spend it badly.
It really does make it a less useful metric for judging cities though.

Just as a simple example if you and I each have identical cities except
I have 12 workshops and all of the culture&pop buildings to support them, and
you have 6 WS, an EE, and 8 empty expansions
-----
My city has about 30,000 higher score.

Which city can has the potential to help more in the FA? Which city has the potential to progress through the chapters faster?

 

[Ashrem]

Interesting. I honestly would never think of ranking to be a measurement of how hard you work- in most things your rank is determined by results.
The #1 ranked car isn't the one that was hardest to build, or used the most expensive materials.
It's the fastest/safest/has the best handling etc. The cost and effort used to make the car isn't even a factor when you compare 2 vehicles.
You would never think a product is better if it used more expensive but inferior materials.

In Elvenar as long as you spend more working pop and culture you get a better score....even if you spend it badly.
It really does make it a less useful metric for judging cities though.

Just as a simple example if you and I each have identical cities except
I have 12 workshops and all of the culture&pop buildings to support them, and
you have 6 WS, an EE, and 8 empty expansions
-----
My city has about 30,000 higher score.

Which city can has the potential to help more in the FA? Which city has the potential to progress through the chapters faster?

There are several issues here. One, this is an artificial economy, so comparing it to cars is tough. Even then, the effort involved in producing the number one ranked car is more than simply it's current manufacturing costs. They have built on all the work that went into previous models, and spent a lot of money on safety and performance research and testing that might be spread across thousands of models over the life of the company. None of us has have a clear idea of what has been involved in the inputs for the top ranked vehicles.

To return to the artificial economy, the only thing rank does is generate revenue for the developers. They would be fools to reward anything but the most expensive path to a goal.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

To return to the artificial economy, the only thing rank does is generate revenue for the developers. They would be fools to reward anything but the most expensive path to a goal.

But they don't, really.

Magic/Diamond buildings increase rank the most, so that part of the equation works. But if event buildings aren't increasing rank, and events are presumably a money-maker for them, I'd think event buildings would have a higher corresponding rank. They indirectly improve rank, because they allow you to be more efficient elsewhere in your city (provided you consistently upgrade event buildings each chapter). But as discussed above, a city with AWs and event buildings might be much "stronger" yet much lower ranked.

If profits were the driver for rank, I'd expect to see huge ranking points tied to the 3rd Grand Prize, or the FA (granted your FS gets some points, but no direct player rank benefit).

 

[Ashrem]

But they don't, really.

Magic/Diamond buildings increase rank the most, so that part of the equation works. But if event buildings aren't increasing rank, and events are presumably a money-maker for them, I'd think event buildings would have a higher corresponding rank. They indirectly improve rank, because they allow you to be more efficient elsewhere in your city (provided you consistently upgrade event buildings each chapter). But as discussed above, a city with AWs and event buildings might be much "stronger" yet much lower ranked.

If profits were the driver for rank, I'd expect to see huge ranking points tied to the 3rd Grand Prize, or the FA (granted your FS gets some points, but no direct player rank benefit).

Event buildings are free. The effort is in obtaining the essences to win them, which is where they make a lot of money. The event buildings are already the reward for effort. Also providing rank would be a double reward.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Event buildings are free. The effort is in obtaining the essences to win them, which is where they make a lot of money. The event buildings are already the reward for effort. Also providing rank would be a double reward.

I agree that event buildings shouldn't provide rank.

But if money ---> essences ----> event buildings*, and you posit that Inno is/should tie ranking points to the activities that produce it money, then it follows that adding rank to event buildings would increase/complement players' desire to spend money on them.

* I realize that certain daily prizes (timer instants, military boosts) are not buildings but can be the result of essences. They're also less than 20% of the aggregate rewards (though I have no idea how much people select them - my gut tells me less than 20%, unless they're tied to a double-token day).

 

[Ashrem]

But if money ---> essences ----> event buildings*, and you posit that Inno is/should tie ranking points to the activities that produce it money, then it follows that adding rank to event buildings would increase/complement players' desire to spend money on them.

I didn't (and wouldn't) say that ranking points are the result of money. Nor would I ever say they are the only reward for money. I said they are the result of effort and resources, most of which can be obtained in larger quantity via money. Spending essences is neither effort nor resources. They are free gambling chips we get as the result of effort. Everything we get using essences is already a reward. Giving another reward for obtaining the initial reward, would be double pay-off, which is not fiscally prudent.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I simply find the system of ranking not being linked to output misleading.
If the #1 ranked city makes less of everything compared to the #2 city, that just doesn't line up for me.

IMO a city that can do more should be higher ranked, or even better, a city that does do more should be higher ranked.
I don't believe this would hurt inno as diamond players still have an advantage with expansions and magic buildings giving them greater efficiency.

 

[Ashrem]

I simply find the system of ranking not being linked to output misleading.

Unlike all kinds of other stuff Inno does?

IMO

You've forgotten the primary formula for assessing the value of an opinion:

[intensity of Opinion]X[{Monthly Diamond Expenditures}^2]

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

I must be a terrible archmage because I take members that are ACTIVE. That is the number one requirement. I want everyone to enjoy the game. Most decisions in the fellowship that I have to make, I do with the counsel and input of the fellowship. I don't care how many points they have or how many event buildings, especially now. Soggy's wisdom has finally sunk in after all this time. They make the event builds obselete. They don't give you the space that you actually need to keep all the event buildings, even though it would be nice to be able to keep a record of all the events you've participated in. I would love to have them on my mountainside once I have to retire them to that great deletion abyss.

And by the way, I'm not overly concerned with what thier boosts are either. That is what the trader is for and if they are actively trading, then all is good in the realm.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Using that formula would make @SoggyShorts opinion not worth what it realty is, 2nd formula please

 

[Ashrem]

Using that formula would make @SoggyShorts opinion not worth what it realty is

That was the point of the joke (i.e., the winky face a the end of the line.)

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I know..I was waiting for @SoggyShorts to chime in, I was continuing the joke.

 

[Pheryll]

There is an error in the formula stated. It fails to divide by 1 + the number of optional squad size technologies taken.

 

[Ashrem]

I'm not sure Inno can handle an equation with 3 variables.