Should tournaments be based on squad size?

[Pheryll]

Just to get a few thoughts here, I put a list of different ways the tournaments could be accessed their difficulty. Which of the following seems the best fitting for determining tournament costs?

1) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on squad size.
2) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on highest squad size tech researched.
3) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on era.
4) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on era.
5) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on manufactory research.
6) Other

 

[SoggyShorts]

1) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on squad size.(current system)
I'm not a fan of this as it discourages players from taking the optional SS techs.
2) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on highest squad size tech researched.
This is in my opinion the best option as it gradually increases the difficulty without favouring skipping techs.
3) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on era.
Better than #1, but not as good as #2 as it would lead to big spikes in catering costs and troop losses.
4) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on era.
5) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on manufactory research.
Again, I don't like tournaments being based on SS. If getting the extra SS techs didn't massively increase my catering costs, and troop losses then I could get them without penalty and use my troops on the world map as well.

Under the current system, a player who skips all optional SS techs has the same catering costs in the middle of chapter 11 as a player who doesn't skip any has in early chapter 9-- Not a fan.

 

[DeletedUser2334]

Under the current system, a player who skips all optional SS techs has the same catering costs in the middle of chapter 11 as a player who doesn't skip any has in early chapter 9-- Not a fan.

Totally agree with you Soggy. I'm a player who likes to upgrade everything, thinking it will give me the best advantages. Instead I am being penalized for doing the optional SS upgrades in tournaments, and provided no other benefit because my squad size is still way too small to win actual province battles out here in the 14th ring. In what other game are upgrades a penalty and not helpful in overcoming the challenge difficulty?

 

[qaccy]

I agree in that making squad size irrelevant for tournaments isn't the best idea. Well actually, maybe it does have a purpose...I know squad size is generally normalized, but if you're a lower player and you clear enough provinces to hit your maximum squad size, does it continue to increase via the tournament scaling even beyond your squad limit or does it stop? Perhaps that's the 'benefit' of squad size research, even though a player in the later game is not going to be able to reasonably reach that many provinces in a given tournament.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

my squad size is bad enough 2346 max for chapter 11.,

 

[DeletedUser7711]

No

 

[SoggyShorts]

No

Well they do have to be based off something, do you have a preference/suggestion?

my squad size is bad enough 2346 max for chapter 11.,

Perhaps you misunderstood the question. If not squad size, then what should tournament squad sizes be based on?

 

[Ashrem]

I like fight size being based on squads. It allows participation for even those who are not interested in the details of the combat. That said, I'm not certain squad size and negotiating costs should be tied together. If fights were based on squad size, while negotiating costs were based on MH or some product of total manufactory squares and manufactory levels, then advanced players will little interest in combat would not get cheap negotiations.

Possibility:
6) Other. Score. Could be in groups of perhaps 10,000. Scores of 20001 to 30000 would face the same squads and negotiating costs, regardless of their squad size or chapter.

 

[SoggyShorts]

6) Other. Score. Could be in groups of perhaps 10,000. Scores of 20001 to 30000 would face the same squads and negotiating costs, regardless of their squad size or chapter.

That would be interesting-- would give pop/culture buildings a significant edge over normal residences.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

If the tournament squad size is based on squad size then it would make sense to give those with bigger squad sizes more points as it does cost alot of tools to maintain my army.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

The way they have it set up now. If you research all the squad size upgrades you will have easy province battles (if in the GZ), but will have way tougher battles in the tournaments. I have not enjoyed doing tournaments since they changed this as they are way harder for me then the provinces, because I research every tec as it comes along. I don't mind that it goes off your SS, but think they could dial back the amount of enemy troops that we have to face in tournaments per SS upgrade, so that those of us that don't skip any can enjoy the tourney again.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Sir Squirrel
Good points. So perhaps instead of giving us the choice to have either very hard tournaments or very hard world map fights they just dial both back a smidge and make tournament SS based off last SS tech unlocked

If the tournament squad size is based on squad size then it would make sense to give those with bigger squad sizes more points as it does cost alot of tools to maintain my army.

But if you have a bigger squad size it means you are further along in the tech tree meaning you have gained more expansions and access to better workshops too.

 

[Mykan]

Could always go back to a formula of provinces explored but tweak how SS and catering comes out as they were badly lopsided.

Personally I am not too fussed as long as it is equitable for all players, sadly the current system is not for reasons @SoggyShorts and @Sir Squirrel have mentioned.

Did I read somewhere that orcs appearance (in tournaments) for catering is based on provinces not tech? Not 100% sure on the trigger for this but one would think a tech should be the trigger.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Did I read somewhere that orcs appearance (in tournaments) for catering is based on provinces not tech?

The trigger is either 1250 or 1251 squad size.

 

[DeletedUser4220]

EDITED:
1) Tournament SS should be based on training speed of Barracks. If you have Training Ground or Merc Camp with higher speed than Barracks' than tourney SS should be based on the highest speed military building and NOT based on squad size. The AW training speed bonus should not be factored in SS size as it should act as bonus, not penalty.
2) The rewards should be also scaled with the tourney SS. Larger the SS required from the player the larger the rewards (more KPs, relics and spells) to make it feel like we have achieve something. Otherwise progressing in research is currently completely offset by tourney size. That is no progress at all. Why just not stay in chapter 2 or 3 and complete more tourney provinces than anybody else by just negotiating for coins, supplies and minimal amount of lvl 1 goods?

 

[Ashrem]

1) Tournament size should be based of total Armory+Training Ground+ Merc Camp level and NOT based on squad size

Sounds promising for me, because I haven't built a Training Ground or Mercenary Camp so I should get easier Tournaments.

2) The rewards should be also scaled with the tourney SS. Larger the SS required from the player the larger the rewards (more KPs, relics and spells) to make it feel like we have achieve something. Otherwise progressing in research is currently completely offset by tourney size. That is no progress at all. Why just not stay in chapter 2 or 3 and complete more tourney provinces than anybody else by just negotiating for coins, supplies and minimal amount of lvl 1 goods.

So a person with a large squad size and no Merc or Training ground should get high rewards for a cheap tourney?

 

[Mykan]

The trigger is either 1250 or 1251 squad size.

Which again favours skipping techs for tournaments.

It would seem the issue is less the basis for how tournament difficulty is scaled but the application of that basis so it is consistent and fair to all players in both tournaments and provinces. The basis is still important to ensure it is something that can be applied consistently so a basis that allows for optional techs/buildings etc leaves room for manipulation

It also wouldn't hurt to cap it either so your tournament SS does not exceed your provincial one, although this might be an intentional soft cap on the difficulty and number of provinces that someone can complete.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

You forget Shrewdy AW increases training size quite a bit. 756 in my case at lvl 2

 

[DeletedUser7611]

Only linear squad size's should be used in the formula, standalone SSs (that aren't required for tech advancement) should only be for provinces. In some tournies you have = squad sizes yet they have 6X troops V our 5X giving them 20% more troops.

 

[DeletedUser8382]

Why not make it so that even if you don't research a squad size from a previous age, as soon as you age up, it's counted anyways?

So that way, you still gradually increase difficulty during an age, but skipping previous ages have no real benefit.