Should tournaments be based on squad size?

[DeletedUser7370]

I am not sure what method I would choose. I just know that I started this game about 3 months ago and that I joined a fellowship about 2 months ago. I like fighting in the tournaments but I find that by round 3 I'm facing 3 star units and losing more troops than I care to lose. I think that whatever system they are using right now is highly demoralizing to new players. I think that I have a pretty good grasp on tactics and troop movements but what good does it do for me to face 3 Star units when I am fighting them with 1 or 2 star troops. Also it is extremely unfair to fight 7 or 8 units when the max I can put on the field is 5. What about allowing me the option to field more troops?
I enjoy all your comments and I will continue to fight but I would just love to see it get easier to fight in tournaments.

Combat in this game does not properly balance until you have access to all 5 unit types.

The enemies being able to field 8 squads is balanced by a reduction in the size of the squads. When you have a perfect offense against such opponents that reduced squad size is enough to allow your squads to completely eliminate one of their squads on a single attack. They also perform weakly against you because of the reduced squad size. Again you must field proper units to make use of the advantage-disadvantage system in the game; and that can only be consistently performed when you have access to all 5 unit types.

 

[slikkdogg]

Thank you for a reply to my question. I must have misled you into believing that I didn't have access to all units. I am currently at the end of chapter 4 and I always get the high score for our fellowship in the tournaments. I was simply stating that it is unfair to face 3-star units when you only have access to one to two-star units in return. I also have found that I face these units as early as round 3 which to me seems a little early. I know others in my fellowship are just as frustrated with the tournaments.

 

[Pheryll]

Three star units should not be appearing in tournaments until you reach the 6th tournament province. The way tournaments are set up is that each consecutive province out causes a single upgrade (or upgrade and replace) of one of the four units assigned to the province. For instance, consider our last tournament (crystal). The enemy units for each tournament province are shown below:

1) Orc Deserter, Hellhound, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
2) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
3) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
4) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress
5) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
6) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
7) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
8) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer III, Enchantress II
9+) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer III, Enchantress III

As you progress in rounds in a tournament province, the units remain the same. The only upgrades of stars is by going from one tournament province to another. So the sixth round of the first tournament province will have only one star enemies.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I was simply stating that it is unfair to face 3-star units when you only have access to one to two-star units in return.

The balance in combat is that the enemy sometimes has more than 5 stacks, 3 star units, and bigger stacks than you.
Against that, you get to choose what units to bring, and can choose to bring units that have up to 80% bonuses against the enemy.
A 2 star unit that has a +60% damage bonus against a 3 star unit should do quite well in the fight.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

Three star units should not be appearing in tournaments until you reach the 6th tournament province. The way tournaments are set up is that each consecutive province out causes a single upgrade (or upgrade and replace) of one of the four units assigned to the province. For instance, consider our last tournament (crystal). The enemy units for each tournament province are shown below:

1) Orc Deserter, Hellhound, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
2) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
3) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Faineant Frog, Enchantress
4) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress
5) Orc Deserter II, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
6) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound II, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
7) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer II, Enchantress II
8) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer III, Enchantress II
9+) Orc Deserter III, Hellhound III, Cannoneer III, Enchantress III

As you progress in rounds in a tournament province, the units remain the same. The only upgrades of stars is by going from one tournament province to another. So the sixth round of the first tournament province will have only one star enemies.

Two star Cerberus eat 3 star mages all the time. It has a lot less to do with the stars and number of swords a unit has against another unit, as it does with the actual +attack and -defense bonuses that a unit has against another unit. Mouse over the swords and get the actual details, sometimes 4 swords has the same value as 2.

 

[DeletedUser12068]

Related question:

We're in the middle of the Scrolls tournament right now, and I have Squad Size Upgrades 13 & 14 fully KP'ed, but not purchased. Will unlocking these now affect the difficulty of battles/catering for the remainder of this tourney? Or is the difficulty of this current tourney already set?

 

[Pheryll]

Yes, updating the squad size mid tournament will impact all future encounters (even those whose tournament province has already been unlocked).

 

[DeletedUser7611]

Has the tourny been changed as of late? I now get 6-8 enemy stacks with 3 different types of troops and = squad size, it's become a little painful to slog through.

 

[samidodamage]

From a conversation in another thread my understanding is the scrolls tournament is considered more difficult than the others. The combo of mages and heavy range is difficult to overcome without heavy losses. I made the decision to activate a squad upgrade tech partway through and really took a hit. Decimated my military...

Has the tourny been changed as of late? I now get 6-8 enemy stacks with 3 different types of troops and = squad size, it's become a little painful to slog through.

 

[slikkdogg]

Yeah, this tournament mix makes it nearly impossible to fight your way through it. I lost all my troops and I am having to cater due to the stacks of troops and mixture. WAY TO DIFFICULT.

 

[Mykan]

Has the tourny been changed as of late? I now get 6-8 enemy stacks with 3 different types of troops and = squad size, it's become a little painful to slog through.

Its possible you crossed a trigger point. I recall a comment from a mod or community manager that at a certain point you only get 5+ squads of enemies or something similar to that.

 

[DeletedUser1996]

yeah -they changed it - Im getting KILLED on this tourny --of course I need to cater more this time as well....And Oh` since they messed up the light and bell AW. Goods are low.

 

[DeletedUser8382]

Its possible you crossed a trigger point. I recall a comment from a mod or community manager that at a certain point you only get 5+ squads of enemies or something similar to that.

These "trigger points" are brutal. On my original world, I just crossed 15 squad researches (total, not actual number) and the difference in cater was now it asks for Tier 3 goods, which actually is nice, because it's asking for a lot less T1 goods, which used to be murder (I was getting to the point where 1 cater was 3,000 T1 goods. Now it's more like 1,000 T1, and 100 T3). However, I was fighting through the 4th round in Provence 1, and now I struggle to even get through the 3rd round. I wonder what other brutal trigger point there are? I think sitting before these trigger points leveling AW for awhile might be the smart thing to do...

 

[DeletedUser4219]

Squad size and race period. We know it is hared to play Elves so we should have enemies according to the race of the player. And yes that is not only possible but has been done in many games I have played.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Squad size and race period. We know it is hared to play Elves so we should have enemies according to the race of the player. And yes that is not only possible but has been done in many games I have played.

I wouldn't say elves are harder. Especially since 10 of the 15 available units in the game are identical for both races.

 

[DeletedUser3484]

1) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on squad size.(current system)
I'm not a fan of this as it discourages players from taking the optional SS techs.
2) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on highest squad size tech researched.
This is in my opinion the best option as it gradually increases the difficulty without favouring skipping techs.
3) Tournament army size and cater costs are based on era.
Better than #1, but not as good as #2 as it would lead to big spikes in catering costs and troop losses.
4) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on era.
5) Tournament army size is based on squad size; cater costs are based on manufactory research.
Again, I don't like tournaments being based on SS. If getting the extra SS techs didn't massively increase my catering costs, and troop losses then I could get them without penalty and use my troops on the world map as well.

Under the current system, a player who skips all optional SS techs has the same catering costs in the middle of chapter 11 as a player who doesn't skip any has in early chapter 9-- Not a fan.

Seems to me that the people who DONT upgrade their squads are the ones who seem to be getting the higher rank in the tourneys... i always upgrade my squads and because of that unbalance am not able to get even close to the top ranks because my costs are significantly higher than some one of equal size, level and rank who does not research squads just to get the lower costs to participate.. just doesnt seem fair....

 

[Mykan]

A member on the EN forum posted their calcualtions/information in relation to squad sizes and tournaments

Squad Size = N * (N + 1) * 1.5 + 6, where N is the number of researched SS upgrades
I'm surprised that Inno did not publish such information.The research of these upgrades does not give anything useful increasing requirements in troops and resources for tourneys

For a long run research these technologies for disadvantage of yourself only. This is a huge imbalance in tournaments.

If you do not research all 14 optional upgrades # 3,5,9,13,15,17,20,22,25,26,28,30,32,39 then the difference is 2346 (39 squad size upgrades) / 981 (25 squad size upgrades) = 2.39 !!! times the bigger needs in your troops and the enemy squad sizes and catering cost are proportionally.

The difference between those who from the dwarves chapter (from upgrade #17) did not research any optional SS upgrades and who researched all of them
2346 / 1401 = 1,67.

It's unclear for me how these upgrades in Inno's view are related to increased production of resources.

There is clearly an imbalance in the current method which favours not researching technology rather than researching it

The option to base difficulty off the highest researched squad size tech would help reduce this gap a lot.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

The balance I think the dev's believe is in the fact that province battles are easier if you research all the tecs. I have researched all the SS upgrades and have very easy provinces in the 13th ring and easy province fights in the 14th ring nearing the end of halflings. But in tourney's I am getting defeated by the 4th or 5th star. So it is either skip some SS upgrades to fight in tournaments and have harder province battles (and higher cater cost) or research them all for easy provinces battles and harder battles in tourney's.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The balance I think the dev's believe is in the fact that province battles are easier if you research all the tecs.

While that may be true, it's not like we are really given the choice. 99.9% of players didn't know about this game mechanic when they reached their first optional tech. Actually I'm not even sure if it was like this before the battle changes.

Even if we were able to go back and make the choice again, it favours non-fighting players either way. The increased difficulty on the world map has no effect on them, so the only choice is skipping all possible techs making tournaments 60% cheaper.
This rift continues to widen as you progress, since scout times get longer and eventually you are clearing no more than 3-4 map provinces a week, but can do 10, 20, or even more in the tournament each week.

 

[Mykan]

If the intent was that than the tech description needs to change so players can make informed choices. It seems crazy that an upgrade technology actually makes it harder and no newish player would expect that until they learn the mechanic either from the forums a guide or informed in-game players.