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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Sorcerers' Homecoming discussion

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
The first thing I said about this building was that I was throwing all my diamonds at it. I am also not fond of the league mechanic, I think it exploits a gambling weakness and I refused to feed it extra diamonds or boot someone else out of gold. Does that make me altruistic? That is not the word I would pick considering all my choices here.


Nope, leave that to elvengems. They had the purple statue listed at 27 and the white tower at 18. Making the tower the number one grand prize pick. Which was wrong and probably contributed considerably to the "shortage" suffered by a number of players.

Edit to add: I saw it and the lack of an update at the minmax site....and I said nothing. Again altruistic is not the word I would choose.

I did not lie out right, but I was far less helpful than I normally would have been. So agreed, the leagues are a net negative.
Wow
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
Nope. I used the exact same strategy in 6 cities and only got 1 complete prize set and ended up with 1 city in silver, 4 in bronze and 1 in amateur. The truth is you'll never get enough event currency for the whole set unless you win it.
Although I agree with you that it was incredibly hard to win the forge, you could get enough currency for the whole set without winning it. I earned the whole set several days before the end, and I earned more just from quests and daily extra after that than I won in the map chests. If I hadn't won anything in the map chests, I calculated that I still would have earned the final piece ... it just would have taken me till the last 24 hours to do it.

(And yes, I did have a maxed Ashen fed.)

I think the difference between my strategy and others was the fact that I went with 18-45-27 instead of 18-45-80. A lot of people were recommending the latter strategy as the lowest cost per chest. I disagree. Even though the 27 is slightly higher (by 1/2 point) than the 80 divided by 3, it is very unlikely that you'll fail to get an 18 or 45 three times in a row. So the 18-45-27 strategy, choosing chests in that order, was the lowest cost per chest, I found. I doggedly picked only those, no matter what, except for maybe once or twice when I was extra tired and wasn't thinking. And also, I wound up losing at most 1 currency per night, since I didn't get a full 8 hours of sleep. So yeah, I guess I was kind of obsessive about the set ... although now that it's in storage, I honestly don't know why. It's not like it's a fire phoenix. It's useful, but not over the top. So I'll keep it in storage till I find a place for it.
 
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Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
Chest (sk)Expected Return (sk/flag)Face Return (sk/flag)Face difference
18 (1)1818.00
27 (1)1927.00-8.00
45 (sk) (2)19.7022.50-2.80
80 (3)21.6726.67-5.00
89 (3)21.6729.67-8.00
45 (no sk) (2)22.5022.50
54 (2)22.5027.00-4.50
32 (1)23.6032.00-8.40
30 (1)26.2530.00-3.75
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/sorcerers-homecoming-event.14656/post-92935

There are 5 chests that have an average of less then 22. if you consistently picked 18/45/80 or 89 (in that order and not a fan of the 27) the chances for you to go beyond 22 is very slim, you have to be realy unlucky to not make it. the 18 and 45 chests would normally offset enough bad luck on the 80/89 chests.

Yes you can fail in theory but it's very unlikely.
This was the strategy I used. I only got one full set in one city, the other 5 fell short.
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Altruistic is the word you are looking for. I had 40,000 diamonds for this event, my outcome was assured no matter what others did.
My negativity about the league system and more so the nerf was because of how I knew it would negatively effect others.

I still hate this format because it is bad for the game. having 10% of players get the complete prize might not translate directly to 90% of players being disappointed, but it's gotta be in that ballpark.

You stopped pumping how good the prizes were because it might increase the costs for you?
That sucks. I guess I can't really blame you, but what does such an action say about our community? Should TomatoeHu and I stop sharing our quest lists? Should Jack?
Perhaps as a new form of PvP we should put out the "best chest list" but switch the numbers around?
I'm not here for that though. This will always just be a co-op game for me, even if helping others works against me.

Remember the first thing I said about this league system? "I don't like where the game is headed."
The only problem with this system is that yet again, the Elvenar devs are incompetent as gak and somehow managed to take the simplest thing and blow it up...

In FoE, league rewards take into account how many upgrades the event itself will give. So an event like this one, where the currency was more often than not, insufficient to garner a full set, we would have been rewarded a 'Selection Kit' starting in Amateur league, with Silver + Gold leagues giving out 2x Selection Kits.

A 'Selection Kit' is simply an item that allows you to pick any 1 building of the set.

Hence, if the devs had had a couple functioning brain cells between them, then this would be a complete non-issue as everyone who completed the entire event would have had their final piece handed out via the League rewards. (or else been able to pick 1-2 additional set buildings of their choice from the kit.)


In FoE, typically the only 'grumbling' point about leagues are;
a) Gold is of course, 'pay-to-join'
b) Silver + Gold especially typically offer military boosters (ie: Lv2 Sentinel Tower and/or Lv2 Winner's Plaza being the typical offerings), which can cause some butt hurt among the 'always offended' crowd.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
Although I agree with you that it was incredibly hard to win the forge, you could get enough currency for the whole set without winning it. I earned the whole set several days before the end, and I earned more just from quests and daily extra after that than I won in the map chests. If I hadn't won anything in the map chests, I calculated that I still would have earned the final piece ... it just would have taken me till the last 24 hours to do it.

(And yes, I did have a maxed Ashen fed.)

I think the difference between my strategy and others was the fact that I went with 18-45-27 instead of 18-45-80. A lot of people were recommending the latter strategy as the lowest cost per chest. I disagree. Even though the 27 is slightly higher (by 1/2 point) than the 80 divided by 3, it is very unlikely that you'll fail to get an 18 or 45 three times in a row. So the 18-45-27 strategy, choosing chests in that order, was the lowest cost per chest, I found. I doggedly picked only those, no matter what, except for maybe once or twice when I was extra tired and wasn't thinking. And also, I wound up losing at most 1 currency per night, since I didn't get a full 8 hours of sleep. So yeah, I guess I was kind of obsessive about the set ... although now that it's in storage, I honestly don't know why. It's not like it's a fire phoenix. It's useful, but not over the top. So I'll keep it in storage till I find a place for it.
I have a lot of respect for you, Darielle. You play a smart game with well thought out strategy. I know you believe your strategy got you your building set but it really came down to luck. You said "it is very unlikely that you'll fail to get an 18 or 45 three times in a row" but that's not true. Every time chests are generated their value is assigned using RNG so you have exactly the same chance of getting or not getting an 18 or 45 each and every time.
Calculating the best chest strategy isn't simply a matter of choosing lowest cost per chest or best cost to flag ratio as evidenced by this elvenar player who's been trying to develop an accurate formula and no strategy is a guarantee; if it were then I should have had the same outcome for all 6 cities instead of the wildly varying results I did get.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Darielle I don't follow your reasoning about 27 being better than 80 if you don't win extra currency. If you take out the possibility of extra currency surely 26.66 is more efficient than 27?
It's not 26.6666 vs 27 though because with the 27 you move on to the next choice which hopefully contains an 18 or 45b. With the 80 you are committing to the high cost 3x.

In some events taking the slightly worse chest is better since it gives you more tries at better chests. An exaggerated wat to look at it would be by adding a 5,000 chest that costs 26.6. Would you blow all of your currency on it, or pay 27 and hope that the next 100 chests offer some cheaper options?
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
They had the purple statue listed at 27 and the white tower at 18. Making the tower the number one grand prize pick. Which was wrong and probably contributed considerably to the "shortage" suffered by a number of players.
Edit to add: I saw it and the lack of an update at the minmax site....and I said nothing.
Honest advice: If you do something like this, don't tell anyone.
You basically admitted that you saw someone's shoelaces were untied and you said nothing even though there was almost no chance they'd even be in the same race as you.
I'm having a hard time not thinking less of you for it.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Survey ??? what survey ....o_O
I am gonna hate myself in the morning, but Soggy is gett'n a raw deal here.
Don't kill the messanger, when the problem lies with the message .... :rolleyes:
"Those ppl that are anti-event, yet spent diamonds" ..... uhhh, hmmmm.

Very few evolve events have I even been 1 artifact short, let alone 2. I have
effectively the 2x AirTraders set in my main city and I was brand new for that
event yet still completed it and got the wraparound..... Getting 1 artifact
from the FAs is cake, if necessary.....

Having said that, all 3 of my cities in this event failed to get The Forge thru
regular gameplay and complete'n all 75 tasks, I followed the GP only strategy,
The nerf was basically 5x75+50+50, or 475 less currency..... to replace the lost
currency cost 2250 diamonds per world.

Due to the fact Bronze didn't even come close to the "260 need'd" to complete
the set, as has been said aprox 10-12% got there ... we will never know how many
used diamonds, and how many did all 75 tasks and didn't get the set.
Whatever the reason the devs nerf'd currency ( stupidity, revenue, ect, ect ),
It seems it had the desired effect, most ppl (+50%) that did all 75 tasks fell short
and had to spend diamonds if they wanted the last GP.

Certainly older players who remember a hard paywall for prizes aren't as surprised
as newer players are that weren't around then. In the last 12 months I have not
seen this much negativity to an event, so its clear that the general feeling around
here is ............ whaaaaaat ??? seriously .....whateva ...

Perception IS reality, to far too many people ... so even the perception that the devs
conspired to increase revenue, in some draconaian way.... leading to widespread
frustration and distain against this event, is not a good thing long term for Elvenar.

The only other event that came close to this event, was the "fog" event, and I chalk'd
that up to more the fact it was a unseen format, therefore more ppl didn't understand
how to play it correctly........ whereas this event was a regular 3 chest event, that more
ppl shudda known the strategies for different outcomes, like a GP only strategy....

Did I ultimately spend diamonds.... I already have posted that I did .... 1200,1200,500
in my 3 worlds.... 1) the full set was that good 2) an incomplete set = failure to me...
Am I piss'd that I was forced to use diamonds due to a crappy RNG, heck yeah !!!!!!
Am I stunned that currency was nerf'd so much that Bronze didn't end up over the
260+ mark, of course ... that's insane , if ya ask me ....

But .............. lately Inno seems to be trying to cater somewhat to newer players, in a
desperate attempt to retain paying customers, So an event like this is like take'n
3 steps backward, in the PR struggle... that says, Inno listens/cares about thier
playerbase/customers....

I also have to agree that, whats the point of earned dimonds, if players are just
going to Horde/Farm them.... now only once, for 3 hrs, was it possible to buy
directly, event currency with $$$$, so don't tell me Inno only did this only for revenue,
or they wouldda had that deal up alot more, and made sure everyone got the
popup for stash outpost (I didnt), cause thats $$$$ only... diamonds won't work.

The sticking point here is whether or not it should take diamonds to complete
the full set, or are diamonds more for all the "xtras" ppl want...... like getting
into Silver/Gold or more than 1 full set. If 10-12% got the full set, then even the
notion of imbalancing the game comes into play, by the simple fact that .....

that .... when more ppl have something, its better balanced ..... but when only a
select few have "something", and of those most have more than just "something"
thats when its unbalanced .... therefore as good as this set is, by how things played
out.... the event itself, did add to the imbalances in the game.

When true multi-accounting and farming is allowed, then its only a matter of time
before some pencil pushing geek, that doesn't play Elvenar, pulls some lame
report on diamonds and concludes :
Way too many ppl have , way too many diamonds, we better use events to ferret
out diamonds from our players hands... cause we're not actually offering things
our players will spend thier diamonds on.... or the saturation of those items into
players hands, is causing ppl not to spend thier diamonds.....

I feel this event was a fail for 1 reason : Anyone complete'n all 75 tasks, should
be relatively secure that they can get the Full Set..... not any xtras, not even get into
Silver, just get the complete Manor set.... without subjected/held hostage by a RNG.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I am gonna hate myself in the morning
If I had a nickel... ;)
the nerf was basically 5x75+50+50, or 475 less currency..... to replace the lost
currency cost 2250 diamonds per world.
Also, the 45>35 daily login reward change so another 220 fewer currency for another ~1200 diamonds. :(
I feel this event was a fail for 1 reason : Anyone complete'n all 75 tasks, should
be relatively secure that they can get the Full Set..... not any xtras, not even get into
Silver, just get the complete Manor set.... without subjected/held hostage by a RNG.
this should be reasonably simple to implement:
  • Reduce the number of chests with extra currency to 2
  • Make the total of 75 quests+ daily+ 20(?) collects = 5,200
  • Make the chests that don't offer any chance at extra currency cost 20,40,60 per 1,2,3 flags
That's it. Anyone who wants to gamble can go for the 2 chests with +currency chances and anyone who just wants the full set avoids them.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
I fall back to Sherlock Holmes who ( basically said, not exact quote )
Once you eliminate everything you can prove to be false, whatever is left ...
no matter how improbable, must be true !

Therefore I have my opinions on why what happened, happened. ;)
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Honest advice: If you do something like this, don't tell anyone.
....
I'm having a hard time not thinking less of you for it.
Yeah, me too. As for the advice, I am to old for that. Shame is an utterly unproductive emotion and the only way to get past it it to look at it, own it , tell on yourself and move on. Telling those you offended against helps prevent a repeat. I was less helpful than I otherwise would have been prior to the leagues.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@BrinDarby
This was the most spectacular set Inno has come out with since the Sun and Moon set imho.
It was worth diamonds to many players and Inno knew that. If more than one or two players had thrown math up here for anything but the CCs everyone would have known that. I am not the only person that was less helpful than I otherwise might have been.

@Lelanya You really dont think I am the only one who noticed and said nothing, do you? Share that wow around.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
@BrinDarby
This was the most spectacular set Inno has come out with since the Sun and Moon set imho.
It was worth diamonds to many players and Inno knew that. If more than one or two players had thrown math up here for anything but the CCs everyone would have known that. I am not the only person that was less helpful than I otherwise might have been.

@Lelanya You really dont think I am the only one who noticed and said nothing, do you? Share that wow around.
It's really hard to believe you're genuinely regretful of your decision to be deceptive when you keep minimising it as simply being less helpful. I'm wondering if your repeated posts stating how players didn't need the last piece was really an attempt to dissuade players from spending to get it.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
Honest advice: If you do something like this, don't tell anyone.
You basically admitted that you saw someone's shoelaces were untied and you said nothing even though there was almost no chance they'd even be in the same race as you.
I'm having a hard time not thinking less of you for it.
Right? A VERY high percentage of players use Gems for reference. 'Nuff said.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
Here I got
80 25x (0 returns)
89 21x (1 return)

And just like that, I failed.

Meh. I was always excited to cash the paycheck that I earned, even though I knew how much it was.
I picked 80, 89, 45 and 18 almost all the way through, in that order. I got NO bonuses and ended up barely making bronze. In my case it's probably not bad luck, it's probably just I used the wrong strategy -- trying to get the bonuses instead of the lowest average.

Live and learn.

AJ
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Eudemonia
No, I am pretty sure that was very clear about my intention of spending all my diamonds on it. I repeatedly said that it was a spectacular set. I repeatedly said it was worth diamonds to me. What i did not do was math out the space savings so other players could see why i said what i said. It is worth diamonds to me if it is not worth diamonds to you dont use them.
Besides I really do think the CCs were the most valuable production and players falling short with no diamonds needed to know the set worked with 6 buildings so they did not scrap it.

That is not deceptive. It is less helpful than I would normally be.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Right? A VERY high percentage of players use Gems for reference. 'Nuff said.
Last times Gems got that section wrong, gems put in a bigger disclaimer. You were told that the Pilgrims Manor Set charts were wrong at the start of the event you passed that info on, it is still not corrected.
Gems will stop being a reference if Gems continues to allow errors of this nature in one of the few updated section.....events.

Also the full page sex doll ads are not going to encourage me to be helpful.
 

Eudaemonia

Well-Known Member
@Eudemonia
No, I am pretty sure that was very clear about my intention of spending all my diamonds on it. I repeatedly said that it was a spectacular set. I repeatedly said it was worth diamonds to me. What i did not do was math out the space savings so other players could see why i said what i said. It is worth diamonds to me if it is not worth diamonds to you dont use them.
Besides I really do think the CCs were the most valuable production and players falling short with no diamonds needed to know the set worked with 6 buildings so they did not scrap it.

That is not deceptive. It is less helpful than I would normally be.
You keep telling yourself that.
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
@Eudemonia
No, I am pretty sure that was very clear about my intention of spending all my diamonds on it. I repeatedly said that it was a spectacular set. I repeatedly said it was worth diamonds to me. What i did not do was math out the space savings so other players could see why i said what i said. It is worth diamonds to me if it is not worth diamonds to you dont use them.
Besides I really do think the CCs were the most valuable production and players falling short with no diamonds needed to know the set worked with 6 buildings so they did not scrap it.

That is not deceptive. It is less helpful than I would normally be.
I would NOT call this a 'spectacular' set... While it is very good, it very clearly begins to lag and become rather pedestrian by later chapters. Unlike for example, the Moonstone + Carnival sets which retain high value regardless of game progress. (with the Moonstone obviously being the single most OP set in the game!)

the Sorc set *is* a top tier set for anyone who is pre-Elementals chapter, due to the insane amount of T1 it produces, and T1 still being in constant demand for researching, tournament/spire/world map negotiations, and numerous building upgrades.

It is a decent set for Elementals, and possibly also Amunii as well.
The T1 is less useful now, since the game is beginning the shift to focusing on Sentient goods. Now, being able to ditch ALL T1 production buildings is a big help to allow for more focus on the T4-5 requirements, but you will also begin to require less and less T1 especially at this point, and your T4 will continually decay into yet more T1 anyways.

By Constructs and on, the only real value left in the set is the CC + the relics to forge more CC's... T1 is basically almost a non-entity at this point, and by the time most players reach this stage, you have millions of T1 already and don't really need to be producing a ton of it anymore.
On the other hand, anyone who was around for the weekly Moonstone Library parades has a much, much more valuable farm that will still give them CC's, but also T4 + T6 as well, which is in far higher demand than T1 goods.
While the mana is still great, it again is of less value vs. say, if the set was boosted to give Seeds instead at this point.


Now, if the set would give T4 vs. T1 and Seeds vs. Mana by say Constructs, then it would retain a really high value regardless of game progress.
As it is, the only late game players who will continue to love the set will be those who never had a chance to farm endless Moonstone pieces from the first year and a bit of the Spire's existence. :p