Spire Rules

[Iyapo1]

Wouldn't it just be easier to cap the spire points?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Cheating is cheating, just saying. It's one thing when something happens like this occasionally but week after week? If a company has a ToS that speaks of multi-accounting and then does absolutely nothing about it, then that is wrong. A company should not have rules they are not willing to enforce.

The ToS is written for all games innogames makes, this is the only one without PvP so they openly choose to not enforce it.
They even wrote at least om some forums that it's okay to multiaccount for this specific reason and that this is an exeption for elvenar on those rules (not sure about us world but at least on the smaller ones it is)

And is it cheating? the rules do not disallow it.
But who cares again nobody is getting hurt here, it does in no way diminish your gameplay.

The spire has 1 difference why rankings do not work and therefore have no prizes associated with that rank, and that it has a hard and fairly low cap. this means the race to the top "within your standards" means eseentialy who makes the quickest sprint to the top.
It has nothing to do with teamplay, or results but only which group would be weekly stupid enough to waste there resources to be on the top the first.

It gives you no special medal, no special reward nothing.
You can "cheat" all you want and you get 0 back from it.
2 days later that information is gone never to be found again.

So now to please those handfull of whiners who cannot stand the rankings which have no game-value we are going to possibly limit the possibilities of those other 99.9999% of the players.
Just to protect someone's ego we are going to revoke the rights of many.

schrew that ego, let it rot and die and save the many tens of thousands of others who can't care less about someones ego being hurt because they reached 1575 the first and someone surpassed them and now there second and it makes no difference at all.
There are worse things in life.

 

[samidodamage]

Here's the link to the Knowledge Base FAQ on Inno's support page that addresses multiple accounts on the same world:
https://support.innogames.com/kb/El...-play-more-than-one-account-on-the-same-world
Here's the text from that link:
Can I play more than one account on the same world?
Yes, in Elvenar you can play using as many accounts as you like, even if that is on the same world. Please do note that if you choose to play using multiple accounts, all of our game rules apply to each of the accounts, without exceptions.

Example: Even though playing with multiple accounts is allowed, it remains forbidden to create or use one or more account(s) as a "push-account" to benefit one or more other account(s).

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Wouldn't it just be easier to cap the spire points?

They could just remoce the ranking altogether, there is also no ranking for fellowship tournament points. so why one for the spire?
We have bronze, silver, gold thou the step from silver to gold is huge and the ranking might help attracting those last few players to make the jump to gold.

But ouside that case the medals work just fine.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

When they introduced the fellowship team rewards in the Spire, they should have made it similar to the Fellowship Adventures. If you are not in a Fellowship when the Spire opens for the week, you cannot participate in the team rewards. You can still do your solo thing if you join after the Spire opens, but your fellowship will not get any team points for your effort. That would stop the swapping in and out of the alts to reach gold and win all the rewards for the real people in the fellowship. What is sad is that this kind of cheating requires a group effort from the members of a fellowship. It is not one member out of 20 or 25, it is 5 or 10 members all doing the same thing, and the other members being guilty by association as they watch it happen, while doing nothing about it and collecting their dirty diamonds each week.

 

[Iyapo1]

What is sad is that this kind of cheating requires a group effort from the members of a fellowship. It is not one member out of 20 or 25, it is 5 or 10 members all doing the same thing, and the other members being guilty by association as they watch it happen, while doing nothing about it and collecting their dirty diamonds each week.

If a FS is a 50 points off bronze silver or gold, I dont think most players view running an alt up as cheating.
Dirty diamonds, lol!

 

[Lelanya]

I will turn this out around another way.
Let's say I have 2 cities in the same fellowship. Let's also say that both cities spend their resources and make it to the top of the Spire.
Let us suppose that the leaders of said fellowship booted my either of my cities so they could bring in a ringer and make gold.
They get gold. I have a city that worked just as hard as everyone else, but got nothing. So I speak up and you know what? That would probably get my other city booted too.
But the point is, it's not cool. It's disrespectful in the extreme, and at the root it's an attitude - that one person, or city, is less important than another. And that is one big steaming pile of... orc dung!
And if a fellowship were to admit to creating a city to use for no other purpose than to push Spire, that is against the rules, and they should be punished.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

When they introduced the fellowship team rewards in the Spire, they should have made it similar to the Fellowship Adventures. If you are not in a Fellowship when the Spire opens for the week, you cannot participate in the team rewards. You can still do your solo thing if you join after the Spire opens, but your fellowship will not get any team points for your effort. That would stop the swapping in and out of the alts to reach gold and win all the rewards for the real people in the fellowship. What is sad is that this kind of cheating requires a group effort from the members of a fellowship. It is not one member out of 20 or 25, it is 5 or 10 members all doing the same thing, and the other members being guilty by association as they watch it happen, while doing nothing about it and collecting their dirty diamonds each week.

Why? this limits changing fellowshops to only a few hours a week between saturday 22:00 and sunday 16:00 CET as the only possible switch time.
This is a very narrow window. way to narrow.
And why? again how does anyone get hurt by this? why would you introduce anything that hurts people to prevent something that doesn't hurt anyone?

I will turn this out around another way.
Let's say I have 2 cities in the same fellowship. Let's also say that both cities spend their resources and make it to the top of the Spire.
Let us suppose that the leaders of said fellowship booted my either of my cities so they could bring in a ringer and make gold.
They get gold. I have a city that worked just as hard as everyone else, but got nothing. So I speak up and you know what? That would probably get my other city booted too.
But the point is, it's not cool. It's disrespectful in the extreme, and at the root it's an attitude - that one person, or city, is less important than another. And that is one big steaming pile of... orc dung!
And if a fellowship were to admit to creating a city to use for no other purpose than to push Spire, that is against the rules, and they should be punished.

For starters in my fellowship I do not want 2 accounts from the same player, the game is much more fun with multiple players instead of multiple accounts, if you need that second account find another fellowship this gives you more people to interact with.
If a second account is added it's only mine or my other mage who adds an account. that second account is only there as a filler untill we find a regular player. for the above reason we do not care of our filler account gets booted. it's a filler account for a reason. you get booted whenever it benefits the fellowship.

Last but not least if you aspire to get gold with your fellowship aquiring a filler/swap account is almost a must.
The issue is that the last jump from lab to the top in the spire is quite expensive. so what you often see is x fellowships with gold and then a huge gap to lets say 1100 points. those last 230 points are like the grand canyon.

The funny part is once you say you "guarantee" gold status it's the magical 1 sheep that follows and often you do not need this filler account at all. but if you make a claim you need to be able to back up that claim.
Once you guarantee that the prize on the top is guaranteed enough people will be going to the top to make swapping not nessesary.
Sometimes 1-3 weeks are needed to show some others gold is serious before they follow.

So it actually has a usecase in which is can help a fellowship, once a fellowship is gold they often stay there and no accounts are needed.
It also avoids infighting, lets assume you miss gold on only a few points, I have seen fellowships being torn apart because of people blaming others.
having the option

 

[Dew Spinner]

You can have as many accounts on the same server as you want, but they should not interact together in a way that is obviously beneficial to one account at the expense of the others. Jumping alt accounts in and out of a fellowship, just to push the point total to gold, so that their primary account in that fellowship gets the rewards is cheating, and that player, and all the account logging in from the same IP address to the same server, can be flagged and banned. Multiple people using the same IP address to play separate accounts on the same server can also trigger a false flag and ban if their activity triggers those flags meant to catch real cheaters.

Also the rules state that you are not allowed to use the invite button to invite yourself or another member sharing an internet connection. So if the alts being moved in an out are inviting themselves or other members of their household, that is another violation of the rules.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Also the rules state that you are not allowed to use the invite button to invite yourself or another member sharing an internet connection. So if the alts being moved in an out are inviting themselves or other members of their household, that is another violation of the rules.

that invite button relates to a feature that involves you getting diamonds for inviting a friend to the game.
That's a feature thats not present in elvenar.

As said those rules are written to encompass all games so it has some strange things into it that are not related to elvenar.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Cheating doesn't require a reward to be involved, cheating is cheating. If you play cards with your friends, with no money involved, and cheat, it is still cheating and your friends will be very upset with you. And I would still like to hear an official response on this issue from the mods.

 

[Darielle]

Is this the one? With 1611 Pts.

Yep, that's them.

 

[Darielle]

Last but not least if you aspire to get gold with your fellowship aquiring a filler/swap account is almost a must.
The issue is that the last jump from lab to the top in the spire is quite expensive. so what you often see is x fellowships with gold and then a huge gap to lets say 1100 points. those last 230 points are like the grand canyon.

My fellowship, Knights of Good, has NEVER used that method to get gold in spire, and we get it quite often, as we did this week. Yes, it was hard getting people into it at first ... when I entered this fellowship a little more than five months ago, they had one gold medal in years of playing. But as we progressed, we did it, and we did it the right way, with enthusiasm and the right team. Lately we get it "most" weeks. NO ONE has ever climbed the spire and then left and someone else came in to climb the spire in our team. It simply was not done, not even at first to boost interest, so a filler/swap account is not "almost a must" ... if you work hard and you've got a great team (not a super high team, but a great one, like one member who always gets to the top and has about 40K points, and another even less) then you can do it without cheating.

I personally don't think gaming the system is fair. If you only have 4 mega-members in a fellowship who can make it to the top and want those gold rewards, then those four using multiple accounts over and over to get gold every week can't compare to the work of 25 members on all levels in another team who work at it, as we do in our fellowship. They get those points easily, running up multiple accounts while the other members opt out of playing. At the same time, even our little players work hard and struggle to get gold (that one with 40K doing it in the last half hour this week). The camaraderie of everyone pushing them onward, the true "fellowship" in the good sense of the word ... you get none of that with the other kind of fellowship. Frankly I would hate being in a fellowship where my diamonds each week were acquired by that method. I'd find another fellowship ... like Knights of Good. And even though the leaderboard is unimportant, it's ridiculous that the other team is in first place (not accusing our particular first place team, just making a general statement) while we are in third. If you compare effort levels, we sailed above them.

 

[Darielle]

Also the rules state that you are not allowed to use the invite button to invite yourself or another member sharing an internet connection. So if the alts being moved in an out are inviting themselves or other members of their household, that is another violation of the rules.

Good point

 

[getmomo]

You can have as many accounts on the same server as you want, but they should not interact together in a way that is obviously beneficial to one account at the expense of the others. Jumping alt accounts in and out of a fellowship, just to push the point total to gold, so that their primary account in that fellowship gets the rewards is cheating, and that player, and all the account logging in from the same IP address to the same server, can be flagged and banned. Multiple people using the same IP address to play separate accounts on the same server can also trigger a false flag and ban if their activity triggers those flags bymeant to catch real cheaters.

Dont most people use vpn's now? Why would multiple people have the same IP address? Seems nearly impossible to catch the cheaters.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Why? this limits changing fellowshops to only a few hours a week between saturday 22:00 and sunday 16:00 CET as the only possible switch time.
This is a very narrow window. way to narrow.
And why? again how does anyone get hurt by this? why would you introduce anything that hurts people to prevent something that doesn't hurt anyone?



For starters in my fellowship I do not want 2 accounts from the same player, the game is much more fun with multiple players instead of multiple accounts, if you need that second account find another fellowship this gives you more people to interact with.
If a second account is added it's only mine or my other mage who adds an account. that second account is only there as a filler untill we find a regular player. for the above reason we do not care of our filler account gets booted. it's a filler account for a reason. you get booted whenever it benefits the fellowship.

Last but not least if you aspire to get gold with your fellowship aquiring a filler/swap account is almost a must.
The issue is that the last jump from lab to the top in the spire is quite expensive. so what you often see is x fellowships with gold and then a huge gap to lets say 1100 points. those last 230 points are like the grand canyon.

The funny part is once you say you "guarantee" gold status it's the magical 1 sheep that follows and often you do not need this filler account at all. but if you make a claim you need to be able to back up that claim.
Once you guarantee that the prize on the top is guaranteed enough people will be going to the top to make swapping not nessesary.
Sometimes 1-3 weeks are needed to show some others gold is serious before they follow.

So it actually has a usecase in which is can help a fellowship, once a fellowship is gold they often stay there and no accounts are needed.
It also avoids infighting, lets assume you miss gold on only a few points, I have seen fellowships being torn apart because of people blaming others.
having the option

It does not matter if someone's cheating can affect my directly or not, cheaters are bad people who cannot be trusted. Having two accounts in a fellowship in a way that so obviously benefits only one of those accounts, as you describe you do, makes you are cheater.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Dont most people use vpn's now? Why would multiple people have the same IP address? Seems nearly impossible to catch the cheaters.

I have no idea. I have never used one in my life. And no one I know personally uses one either.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I would still like to hear an official response on this issue from the mods.

How much more of an "official" response do you want?
This issue comes up every ~6 months and always gets the exact same response from the mods.
Would it be better if @helya chimed in and said "yup"?

 

[Dew Spinner]

View attachment 9484
How much more of an "official" response do you want?
This issue comes up every ~6 months and always gets the exact same response from the mods.
Would it be better if @helya chimed in and said "yup"?

I want their response on the cheating aspect, if they are condoning the cheating or doing something about it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I want their response on the cheating aspect, if they are condoning the cheating or doing something about it.

"We investigate every report of cheating and take any actions we deem appropriate. Please note that due to privacy concerns we can not tell you about any actions taken"- Every response on the subject, ever.