Deleted User - 849192770
Guest
yes i little luck and a little garuntee is perfect
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Your Elvenar Team
Spire Shop
- Thread starter SoggyShorts
- Start date
Alram
Flippers just flip
No. Why move just the artifacts out of the Chests?
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
2 main reasons:
And a third reason: It's almost impossible to get 9 artifacts for a building in the spire therefore you'd have to wait 54 weeks before doing it again in the hopes of getting 9 total artifacts and making the building worth placing.
In the Spire Shop you could save up your points for 2 months and get a building leveled to max instead of 2 buildings half-way levelled which aren't even worth placing.
This adds choice to the artifacts instead of forcing ones we don't want or can't even use on us.
Alram
Flippers just flip
@SoggyShorts
How long were you waiting on your endless scroll? I'm still waiting on a genie. In the meantime, I keep winning dwarven armorers which are useless in my catering city. Some people don't need spell fragments. I just think that you cant have a shop for just the one thing you might want.
How long were you waiting on your endless scroll? I'm still waiting on a genie. In the meantime, I keep winning dwarven armorers which are useless in my catering city. Some people don't need spell fragments. I just think that you cant have a shop for just the one thing you might want.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
add the chapter specific drop down menu ) support hates the idea but if it gets a ground swell it solves all the player specific problems
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Just an FYI, I have a full firebird and don't want any more artifacts, this isn't personal, it's based on player postings in the forums and all of my fellowships.
That's not the same because at the time I had unlimited chances and only needed some patience and they fixed that anyways by adding the moonstone set to crafting.
The problem as outlined is that the Artifacts in chests make it almost impossible to be useful for anyone.
Sure an underdeveloped firebird is still good, but just wait until the Stonehenge artifact comes up next and
20% of players have a level 10 so the artifacts are useless
79.999% of players have no artifacts and win fewer than 7 making it not worth placing.
Alram
Flippers just flip
I didn't mean " you" in the personal sense. 
There are prizes in the spire. Some are useful to some players and some are useless. Part of the fun is not knowing what you are going to get.
I see the artifacts as just another prize that may or may not be useful to some players. I just do not think artifacts deserve special spire status.
This is a game that takes years to finish. What's the rush?
We have events regularly and lots of players don't get all the artifacts needed for full evolutions.
On a personal note, I have 3 bases sitting in my inventory. I won one artifact.
There are prizes in the spire. Some are useful to some players and some are useless. Part of the fun is not knowing what you are going to get.
I see the artifacts as just another prize that may or may not be useful to some players. I just do not think artifacts deserve special spire status.
This is a game that takes years to finish. What's the rush?
We have events regularly and lots of players don't get all the artifacts needed for full evolutions.
On a personal note, I have 3 bases sitting in my inventory. I won one artifact.
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
So long as the moonstone set is never for sale in this spire shop, I'm 100% on board
I think it will serve as an excellent incentive for spire shy players to push themselves further up the tower.
My one concern is the price of things. I go to the top of the spire every week, so could conceivably be buying an artifact every 2 weeks. Great for me but given that I had to wait an entire year for the chance to convert 2 new artifacts for a single one - Inno might find 2 spire climbs too cheap. So I think the price of things would need to be weighed carefully. Too expensive and people will miss the random chance to win 5 artifacts in a single climb. Too cheap andwe'll have genie farms to put wishing well farms to shame...and imbalance will follow.
[edit: ahh, I see. Genies would not be for sale in the shop, just artifacts.]
I think it will serve as an excellent incentive for spire shy players to push themselves further up the tower.
My one concern is the price of things. I go to the top of the spire every week, so could conceivably be buying an artifact every 2 weeks. Great for me but given that I had to wait an entire year for the chance to convert 2 new artifacts for a single one - Inno might find 2 spire climbs too cheap. So I think the price of things would need to be weighed carefully. Too expensive and people will miss the random chance to win 5 artifacts in a single climb. Too cheap and
[edit: ahh, I see. Genies would not be for sale in the shop, just artifacts.]
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
The statistical average is 5.5 per 6 weeks now.
Under the current pricing proposal (which is open to tweaking) the maximum you could get in 6 weeks by going all the way up + gold spire FS bonus is
63+12 = 75
75*6 = 450 or 4.5 artifacts
That's a 20% reduction in how many artifacts you should get and only if you put in maximal effort.
And remember not all artifacts are available all the time, they are on rotation just like now, but overlapping so that there are always 2 in the shop.
I think that hits the sweet spot between generosity and stinginess but I'm open to other numbers of course.
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hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
only 1 moonstone library set per player now unless you have them as inventory or placed in city
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
This is where we fundamentally disagree.
I think Artifacts should get totally different status because unlike all of the other rewards you must wait a full year to get more if you are unlucky.
All other offers in the Spire are an order of magnitude more useful to more players. That less than 1% of players needing/wanting 4 Stonehenge artifacts is nothing like some players being full of spell fragments due to having too many moonsets.
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AtaguS
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. Yes, it seems balanced, especially with these artifacts on a 6 week rotation.
I'd love a chance at a coldfire, since I only had eyes for the fire chicken last year. And a moonbear...even a mermaid.
Yup, liking this idea a whole lot.
Deleted User - 849281086
Guest
The idea is good in general...
Some players really want that stuff (i'm not concerned with it yet at all but i read things) and to play a long time just to never get lame RNG to hit enough so you can get enough artifacts and move on, seems wrong.
It's different than getting a lucky magic building or something (that stuff should remain RNG)... these artifacts not coming out in a timely manner for some players is nothing but frustration in a game that is already an exercise in extreme waiting.
Spire rewards seem good as RNG except for that 1 chance thing... artifacts.
Soggy's idea is good except i question one thing...
Why make someone wait for a cycle of specific artifacts to come up? You just took them out of RNG and it could take months to get enough points for all you need... so it seems no need to add wait time all over again. Imagine logging back in to Elvenar and thinking "i get to wait 5 months before my artifact shows up in spire shop"... my opinion (and my opinions are always facts) this cycling part of your idea should be scrapped.
I know why you'd be doing it because it's in theme with how Elvenar already makes you wait this way on artifacts but it was wrong to begin with.
This game has enough extreme waiting as it is. I think if you earn the points you should be able to buy whatever artifact you want without this seasonal cycling stuff.
Imagine if Everblossom event was only RNG to upgrade your sleigh. Lame.
Spire artifact RNG = no.
Soggy's idea = yes except they should all be there, and maybe the points to get artifacts need to be tweaked... probably should make it take longer if his "bonus fellowship points" become part of the equation. This shop thing should have to be work if you want to bypass RNG. No matter how big your city is, or how easy to get up a spire, or how active your fellowship is.
(and.... pulling out artifacts they should add 1 or more cool things to the spire chance list to replace them)
Some players really want that stuff (i'm not concerned with it yet at all but i read things) and to play a long time just to never get lame RNG to hit enough so you can get enough artifacts and move on, seems wrong.
It's different than getting a lucky magic building or something (that stuff should remain RNG)... these artifacts not coming out in a timely manner for some players is nothing but frustration in a game that is already an exercise in extreme waiting.
Spire rewards seem good as RNG except for that 1 chance thing... artifacts.
Soggy's idea is good except i question one thing...
Why make someone wait for a cycle of specific artifacts to come up? You just took them out of RNG and it could take months to get enough points for all you need... so it seems no need to add wait time all over again. Imagine logging back in to Elvenar and thinking "i get to wait 5 months before my artifact shows up in spire shop"... my opinion (and my opinions are always facts) this cycling part of your idea should be scrapped.
I know why you'd be doing it because it's in theme with how Elvenar already makes you wait this way on artifacts but it was wrong to begin with.
This game has enough extreme waiting as it is. I think if you earn the points you should be able to buy whatever artifact you want without this seasonal cycling stuff.
Imagine if Everblossom event was only RNG to upgrade your sleigh. Lame.
Spire artifact RNG = no.
Soggy's idea = yes except they should all be there, and maybe the points to get artifacts need to be tweaked... probably should make it take longer if his "bonus fellowship points" become part of the equation. This shop thing should have to be work if you want to bypass RNG. No matter how big your city is, or how easy to get up a spire, or how active your fellowship is.
(and.... pulling out artifacts they should add 1 or more cool things to the spire chance list to replace them)
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
1. How would that work with bases?
2. That removes the FOMO, which is an essential part of F2P games. It's pretty much their whole business model.
3. If all prizes are available all of the time then shortly players will get all of the ones they want and have nothing to look forward to.
The idea with having 2 at a time where you can fully evolve 1 of them with enough effort is an in-between compromise from waiting a full year to complete a single building vs having all buildings all the time.
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Deleted User - 849281086
Guest
I don't see this as messing with their income at all. I also see no reason to compromise as you said you did with them. Is it really good business for them to make someone wait as long as they do or frustrate players with horrible RNG over an artifact?
This should be compromised with about as soon as we should compromise on their other great ideas like making us dump hundreds of hours of KP down the drain in to unboosted goods techs. I don't care if their fix was to have some reason later on down the road. I consider it a lame bandaid for a bad decision.
Your idea is good. 5 times better than what they came up with (judging from the bad RNG stories you hear of). I just don't see cycling as being part of a solution when you take them out of a spire and possibly force people to wait months for what they want to show up in a shop.
This game has enough "waiting for months" aspects. It has "waiting for months" well past what it should.
I'll just end by saying compromising as you mention is like them handing us a plate covered in cow manure and someone comes up with the better idea of scraping off half of it and calling it better. I'm exaggerating obviously, but...
A game that literally pushes the extreme of "wait" on players (more waiting in any game i've ever played times 20 probably), can only hurt people by having a setup as they have... skip my idea i don't care... just don't compromise cuz they are just wrong and i guarantee you more people have left this game because of being pushed over the "more things you get to wait months for" precipice... especially a RNG one. We're not talking magic buildings etc... just damn artifacts haha.
They could use a few "let's speed things up for them" decisions.
This should be compromised with about as soon as we should compromise on their other great ideas like making us dump hundreds of hours of KP down the drain in to unboosted goods techs. I don't care if their fix was to have some reason later on down the road. I consider it a lame bandaid for a bad decision.
Your idea is good. 5 times better than what they came up with (judging from the bad RNG stories you hear of). I just don't see cycling as being part of a solution when you take them out of a spire and possibly force people to wait months for what they want to show up in a shop.
This game has enough "waiting for months" aspects. It has "waiting for months" well past what it should.
I'll just end by saying compromising as you mention is like them handing us a plate covered in cow manure and someone comes up with the better idea of scraping off half of it and calling it better. I'm exaggerating obviously, but...
A game that literally pushes the extreme of "wait" on players (more waiting in any game i've ever played times 20 probably), can only hurt people by having a setup as they have... skip my idea i don't care... just don't compromise cuz they are just wrong and i guarantee you more people have left this game because of being pushed over the "more things you get to wait months for" precipice... especially a RNG one. We're not talking magic buildings etc... just damn artifacts haha.
They could use a few "let's speed things up for them" decisions.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
In the half-decade that I've been here tossing out suggestions and feature requests I've become a little less... optimistic about what might actually be implemented.
If they are giving us 1 cookie per month it's possible that they might consider giving us a couple of half cookies per month, but the chances of them just handing us the jar is pretty low.
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samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
And don't forget: We might get the cookie we asked for, but they give it to us with one hand and use the other to smack us in the head!
Deleted User - 849281086
Guest
Sogg... i have a change to your idea.
Though I believe it should only be artifacts, not things like magic buildings etc, i believe the cost should be doubled. But you get the same points from spire as you suggest, BUT ALSO you get same points from 1-10 fights in tourney (max points per 6th star fight, up to 10 fights).
So same idea as yers, but you have to do both modes of play well to get the points in a timely manner.
Way too many inactives or barely actives in this game... and maybe by having a shop (no longer spire shop) that points can be earned for the artifacts (and whatever else they come up with maybe, though yes RNG needs to stay for some things), maybe it would motivate some people to lift more than their left pinky finger in effort in these 2 modes of play.
I'd say also keep your "slight fellowship bonuses for how well they do", as added motivation for especially AM's to start kicking people in to gear or finding people to replace the chaff.
So yeah... same idea as yours, with the same 'time' in terms of weeks to earn an artifact.... just make the points needed to do it be spread over spire and tourney points combined.
Increase activity for both modes instead of just 1, while also handling your artifact RNG initial point.
I'd say 2 birds with one stone but in Elvenar i guess i should say 2 turtles.
Though I believe it should only be artifacts, not things like magic buildings etc, i believe the cost should be doubled. But you get the same points from spire as you suggest, BUT ALSO you get same points from 1-10 fights in tourney (max points per 6th star fight, up to 10 fights).
So same idea as yers, but you have to do both modes of play well to get the points in a timely manner.
Way too many inactives or barely actives in this game... and maybe by having a shop (no longer spire shop) that points can be earned for the artifacts (and whatever else they come up with maybe, though yes RNG needs to stay for some things), maybe it would motivate some people to lift more than their left pinky finger in effort in these 2 modes of play.
I'd say also keep your "slight fellowship bonuses for how well they do", as added motivation for especially AM's to start kicking people in to gear or finding people to replace the chaff.
So yeah... same idea as yours, with the same 'time' in terms of weeks to earn an artifact.... just make the points needed to do it be spread over spire and tourney points combined.
Increase activity for both modes instead of just 1, while also handling your artifact RNG initial point.
I'd say 2 birds with one stone but in Elvenar i guess i should say 2 turtles.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Shhhh that's the next step.
If teh spire shop ever got traction then adding Artifact Essence to the tournament Chests or more importantly to the FA spots would be a logical follow-up.