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    Your Elvenar Team

Struggling smaller cities

  • Thread starter Deleted User - 850238979
  • Start date

Silly Bubbles

I only POP the bad ones
I don’t want any new players who might read this thread to come away with the wrong idea.

I believe in full disclosure and letting players decide for themselves what they want to do. As much as tournament and Spire is important for FSs to get group rewards, it is a lot of pressure on someone who is just starting while it gets easier later on. Of course, if it's the part of the game that they enjoy then it's fine, if they enjoy progressing fast then I would consider other options. It did work for me quite well.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
It seems that Inno expect a new player to join a fellowship in Chapter II, thus that fellowship then guides the new player through the subsequent chapters.
This doesn’t happen though because the game’s FS suggestion mechanism is borked. Since anyone can start a FS too, if you don’t know what you are doing, as is the case of a new player, then it’s almost analysis paralysis with too many choices trying to find a FS on your own.

As much as tournament and Spire is important for FSs to get group rewards, it is a lot of pressure on someone who is just starting while it gets easier later on. Of course, if it's the part of the game that they enjoy then it's fine, if they enjoy progressing fast then I would consider other options. It did work for me quite well.
They are optional and there are many ways to play the game. However, having embedded myself with a bunch of newbies for a few months to observe what they do, I feel like most chose to ignore both even after they have unlocked them. After all, they played 4 chapters without doing either just fine so why pay attention to it. That AM doesn’t know better what those are for to encourage it. And then it makes me wonder if you look at most of the newbie fellowships, if they didn’t already stall out to black triangles before chapter 5, I wonder if this is a big reason you rarely see anyone past chapter 8 in these newbie FS. Suddenly you hit Orc chapter and you could spend weeks progressing nowhere on the tech tree while just shrooming and shoveling poop. If you were used to feeling like “progress” is moving through the tech tree, then this is a rude awakening to understand the really slow nature of the game. Most of the production times in Orcs is 12hrs+. The game suddenly becomes a whole lot of nothing going on if you don’t have Spire or tourney to do in between.
 

Silly Bubbles

I only POP the bad ones
And then it makes me wonder if you look at most of the newbie fellowships, if they didn’t already stall out to black triangles before chapter 5, I wonder if this is a big reason you rarely see anyone past chapter 8 in these newbie FS.

There could be millions of reasons why people stop playing the game. Whatever it is, it's related to enjoyment, nobody will keep playing game they don't enjoy. It's important that players find an FS that fits their playing style, we all enjoy different things in different degrees, there is not one FS style that fits all. Some quit because they get bored, some quit because it's too much or too little etc. It's definitely up to the player to decide how they want to play and it's good to show them that whatever style they choose it's fine. And when they need help, it's good to help them to get what they want.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Spire is important for FSs to get group rewards, it is a lot of pressure on someone who is just starting while it gets easier later on. Of course, if it's the part of the game that they enjoy then it's fine, if they enjoy progressing fast then I would consider other options. It did work for me quite well.

Spire and tournament supercharge a town. The issue if someone is slowing down doing them is not the spire and the tourny but the person has either not built enough factories (see crackie's comments) or has overextended themselves. Its amazing how people have no clue of the size of manufacturing they might need or how to ensure their town is growing and they are not blowing all their goods on tourny and spire. Play those right and your town will only grow quicker and stronger.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
So how do you explain or replicate my growth without much of tournament or Spire for a year?
Based off of your forum posts, you dont seem to care for wonders and you really seem to enjoy buying KP. I am guessing your speed through the chapters has a lot to do with you dumping most of your kp into your tech tree. Just guessing.
 
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JackofShadows

Active Member
I'm new to the game and I suppose I'm not really qualified to comment on this thread, but some of the comments here got me curious so I went digging around on the forums to get a better idea of some of the things you folks are talking about. Apologies in advance if I don't use the right terminology.

I'm getting frustrated with the quests and tech tree. The quest I just got requires me to have 16 residences (I have 14 currently). It wants them all upgraded to level 4. About half of mine are currently level 3. That means that I need to build more culture buildings if I want to keep any sort of bonus. That's more spaces (and time) that needs to be invested. And the gold / supplies to pay for the upgrades.

Expansion - I don't have the goods to negotiate ("cater"?). So I have to fight. That means that I need units which take time to build. And armories so I can make more units. That's more space, and gold / supplies for upgrades. I need another ten provinces by the end of this chapter in order to progress.

Then there's these 2 events that are going on. The serpent event is OK I guess - or will be OK until I get to the point where it's going to want me to buy knowledge points. I'm already going through the tech tree faster than my goods production can keep up with. Trying to progress quests is making it hard to have the space to build more factories. And given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.

As for the reward - honestly it's not worth it thus far. Mine gives me an extra 200 supplies per day in its current state. I'm keeping it for the population / culture boost currently, but I don't see keeping it much longer.

And then there's my Fellowship. I just joined them, and I've discovered that I can't do ANYTHING to help them except provide the Neighborly Help once a day. Can't contribute knowledge points - don't unlock the Ancient Wonders until chapter 4. Ditto for Tournament. Chapter 5 for Spire (which looks like a lot of fun, from the videos I've watched about it).

I'm in Chapter 2, and I'm already frustrated. I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is. This conclusion is based on the requirement to spend diamonds to have more than 2 builders or upgrade the magic academy past level two. That, plus the "DIAMOND SALE" in-your-face ads that pop up nearly every time I sign into the game.
 

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
I'm new to the game and I suppose I'm not really qualified to comment on this thread,
Welcome to the game and the forum! :D Please don’t ever have the idea that your opinions are less valuable here than those of more established players. You’re especially qualified to comment on this thread. We older players can talk it over and make suppositions about the impact until we are blue in the face but we are just guessing at what a new player is actually experiencing. Even if we start a new city, we have preconceived strategies and expectations and won’t actually be able to replicate a new player’s experiences. Hearing directly from a new player (and one who has obviously done his research!) about this is great.

but some of the comments here got me curious so I went digging around on the forums to get a better idea of some of the things you folks are talking about. Apologies in advance if I don't use the right terminology.

I'm getting frustrated with the quests and tech tree. The quest I just got requires me to have 16 residences (I have 14 currently). It wants them all upgraded to level 4. About half of mine are currently level 3. That means that I need to build more culture buildings if I want to keep any sort of bonus. That's more spaces (and time) that needs to be invested. And the gold / supplies to pay for the upgrades.

Expansion - I don't have the goods to negotiate ("cater"?). So I have to fight. That means that I need units which take time to build. And armories so I can make more units. That's more space, and gold / supplies for upgrades. I need another ten provinces by the end of this chapter in order to progress.

Then there's these 2 events that are going on. The serpent event is OK I guess - or will be OK until I get to the point where it's going to want me to buy knowledge points. I'm already going through the tech tree faster than my goods production can keep up with. Trying to progress quests is making it hard to have the space to build more factories. And given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.

As for the reward - honestly it's not worth it thus far. Mine gives me an extra 200 supplies per day in its current state. I'm keeping it for the population / culture boost currently, but I don't see keeping it much longer.

And then there's my Fellowship. I just joined them, and I've discovered that I can't do ANYTHING to help them except provide the Neighborly Help once a day. Can't contribute knowledge points - don't unlock the Ancient Wonders until chapter 4. Ditto for Tournament. Chapter 5 for Spire (which looks like a lot of fun, from the videos I've watched about it).

I'm in Chapter 2, and I'm already frustrated. I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is. This conclusion is based on the requirement to spend diamonds to have more than 2 builders or upgrade the magic academy past level two. That, plus the "DIAMOND SALE" in-your-face ads that pop up nearly every time I sign into the game.
My sincerest sympathies. This is so different from my early game experience. The only thing I can offer is that the game will become much more fun and less frustrating once you have all that stuff unlocked (if you can stomach it long enough to get there). Once you get to chapter 5 or 6, you also won’t need the rewards from the quests so desperately, so you will be able to start ignoring them if they are not convenient for you to complete (like your current quest for more residences). That will free you up to be able to develop your city the way you want, and focus on what you actually need at any given time.

The prevailing wisdom has been that it’s much easier for new chapter players to negotiate than to fight because the units take so long to train early-game that it’s hard (or even impossible) to replace units as fast as you lose them, since most of your province encounters will be Hard or Very Hard. Normally, I would have recommended you focus on building up your manufactories (or placing any event buildings you might have won; the Luscious Cakes available today is an excellent producer compared to a manufactory, even in ch. 2), instead of placing more armories and attempting to fight. I don’t know if this still holds true, however, because of the increased speed you’re rushed through those first chapters, and the decreased resources available as a result. :-/
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
I'm new to the game and I suppose I'm not really qualified to comment on this thread, but some of the comments here got me curious so I went digging around on the forums to get a better idea of some of the things you folks are talking about. Apologies in advance if I don't use the right terminology.

I'm getting frustrated with the quests and tech tree. The quest I just got requires me to have 16 residences (I have 14 currently). It wants them all upgraded to level 4. About half of mine are currently level 3. That means that I need to build more culture buildings if I want to keep any sort of bonus. That's more spaces (and time) that needs to be invested. And the gold / supplies to pay for the upgrades.

Expansion - I don't have the goods to negotiate ("cater"?). So I have to fight. That means that I need units which take time to build. And armories so I can make more units. That's more space, and gold / supplies for upgrades. I need another ten provinces by the end of this chapter in order to progress.

Then there's these 2 events that are going on. The serpent event is OK I guess - or will be OK until I get to the point where it's going to want me to buy knowledge points. I'm already going through the tech tree faster than my goods production can keep up with. Trying to progress quests is making it hard to have the space to build more factories. And given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.

As for the reward - honestly it's not worth it thus far. Mine gives me an extra 200 supplies per day in its current state. I'm keeping it for the population / culture boost currently, but I don't see keeping it much longer.

And then there's my Fellowship. I just joined them, and I've discovered that I can't do ANYTHING to help them except provide the Neighborly Help once a day. Can't contribute knowledge points - don't unlock the Ancient Wonders until chapter 4. Ditto for Tournament. Chapter 5 for Spire (which looks like a lot of fun, from the videos I've watched about it).

I'm in Chapter 2, and I'm already frustrated. I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is. This conclusion is based on the requirement to spend diamonds to have more than 2 builders or upgrade the magic academy past level two. That, plus the "DIAMOND SALE" in-your-face ads that pop up nearly every time I sign into the game.
I only have 2 things to say because without seeing your city it is hard to give specific advice.
1. Don't worry about purchasing KP. I have had extra gold for as long as I have played the game and have always bought KP with it. Yes the price goes up but as you buy KP you put it into tech and wonders and your city progresses and amazingly you will be earning more and more gold. Still buy KP to this day and never have said "oh its so expensive".

2. You are in ch. 2. I started a second city almost 1 year ago and it was a grind in the lower chapters. But it gets better. Following the quests is sort of a guide as to what you should have in your city. You can always adjust it. Don't want 16 residences in the future, sell them. Like I said earlier, I can't really give specific advice but as a ch. 2 player you should not worry about helping your fellowship so much. Grow. You will be helping them soon enough.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
I'm new to the game and I suppose I'm not really qualified to comment on this thread,
Welcome to the forum!!! You are perfectly qualified to comment on the new cities struggle thread! You are living it!

I know the daily quests are difficult but I advise you to focus on those daily quests as "most important", where you are in the game(Chapter 2)those quests are your best reward payout. Here are links to a Daily Quest List for an Elven City and for a Human City. I hope it helps:

Post in thread 'chapter questlines' https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/chapter-questlines.37534/post-290951


Just my opinion but for the Season of Triump and the Event take any goodies that fall into your lap but basically, ignore them both. You can't finish either 100% without spending diamonds and nothing you can win will be useful for more than a chapter or 2. Also, when they are over there will be another and another and another and . . .
I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is.
This is exactly correct, spending diamonds will save you a bit of time. That is it.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
The prevailing wisdom has been that it’s much easier for new chapter players to negotiate than to fight because the units take so long to train early-game that it’s hard (or even impossible) to replace units as fast as you lose them,
This is not completely true in chapters 1-3 any more. The free troops that they give you are the only thing that get you through, you will run out of everything if you try to negotiate the first 3 chapters. You can't replace the troops but you definitely have to fight because you can't make enough goods to negotiate.
Don't worry about purchasing KP.
In the early chapters 1-3 you do not have enough Coins to buy KP like this event requires. It will completely stall your city.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Then there's these 2 events that are going on. The serpent event is OK I guess - or will be OK until I get to the point where it's going to want me to buy knowledge points. I'm already going through the tech tree faster than my goods production can keep up with. Trying to progress quests is making it hard to have the space to build more factories. And given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.
The buy KP quests don’t go away, but even so, the increase from each successive buy don’t increase so much that they become unmanageable, even after playing for years. There is a coin crunch early game since you don’t get much out of residents so you will struggle with it, but eventually, coin becomes the “cheapest” commodity to come by bc it is easiest to acquire.
As for the reward - honestly it's not worth it thus far. Mine gives me an extra 200 supplies per day in its current state. I'm keeping it for the population / culture boost currently, but I don't see keeping it much longer.
Know that there will always be new events and at some point, you will run out of room to put all the event buildings out. Therefore, you can somewhat ignore them if the main building doesn’t appeal to you. However, you should still try your best at the events because the side prizes are still something. Even if your “best”only gets you halfway through the quest line, you will still win some troops, some goods, some spells, and culture buildings. Also, the culture buildings from the build menu are subpar. The ones from events give much better yield. You’ll always want to rotate out stuff you win from events because buildings have chapters too. As you progress, you will want culture buildings from latest chapter to provide highest yield.

That said, I haven’t been paying much attention to the past few events because the main building doesn’t help me much, but they just “re-balanced” some Magic Academy recipes and increase CC costs, prob to adjust to prizes of this building, which makes this building annoyingly part of the game balancing equation. I am making more of an effort on getting this one evolved for that reason.
I'm in Chapter 2, and I'm already frustrated. I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is. This conclusion is based on the requirement to spend diamonds to have more than 2 builders or upgrade the magic academy past level two. That, plus the "DIAMOND SALE" in-your-face ads that pop up nearly every time I sign into the game.
The good news is if you have time to collect coins, you can fly through early chapters fairly quickly in the new tech tree. However, there are some advantages and disadvantages to flying through chapters. Slow poking and playing like a turtle is not necessarily bad either. It’s an open ended game. There really isn’t a finish line, except for where you want to define it. You put the checkered flag wherever you want. Some put it at chap 21. Some put it at Spire. Other think it’s tourney. Chap 5 is good enough for some. They are all right answers.
 

hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
@jackofshadow .. actually a real new person is just what this thread needed, i'm not running across many that like the new reasearch ch 1 to 5 for several reason, it seems the programmers are like engineers that sit in a room drawing without any real world experience (looks great on paper), i don't think many if any of them actually play the game, also your fellowship should not expect you to help at a begginer level other than growing and enjoying yourself, they should be helping you..best advice i can give you is set a comfortable pace for yourself to grow and learn. you will figure out a style of play that suits you, the game goes on for like forever so stressing out should be avoided at all time and let your city and style develope on your timeline
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
@jackofshadow .. actually a real new person is just what this thread needed, i'm not running across many that like the new reasearch ch 1 to 5 for several reason, it seems the programmers are like engineers that sit in a room drawing without any real world experience (looks great on paper), i don't think many if any of them actually play the game, also your fellowship should not expect you to help at a begginer level other than growing and enjoying yourself, they should be helping you..best advice i can give you is set a comfortable pace for yourself to grow and learn. you will figure out a style of play that suits you, the game goes on for like forever so stressing out should be avoided at all time and let your city and style develope on your timeline
I don't think the revamp of chap 1-5 comes from Devs though, even if I agree they prob play the game only super casually. It prob comes from the brass, who are probably even more removed from the game, but looking very hard and closely at some number from a report somewhere. Cause if I were a dev, I would take the "If it ain't broke, don't mess with it" approach to my code. I certainly wouldn't take the "Let's dig up the water main and break it on purpose for half the players first, and then everyone else later" approach. If I got those marching orders as a dev, I would hear a record scratch and probably have a heart attack.
 

Katwick

Cartographer
given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.
Right now you're hurting for Coins, but once you have a lot of neighbors and a lot of houses you'll be swimming in Coins; the COST of buying KPs only increases linearly, while the Coin sources increase exponentially. To the point, if you look at the Chapter 21 threads, the developers just introduced an ALTERNATE to Coin production, because TOO MANY Coins was forcing folks to buy KPs that could only be dumped into their Ancient Wonders. Endgame players spend a million Coins per KP and don't even blink.

You may want to look up ElvenArchitect. You have yet to discover the JOY of planning the layout of your city, and getting it JUST EXACTLY RIGHT. And you'll learn a LOT about the game in the process.
 
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JackofShadows

Active Member
I have about 30K gold and 4K supplies currently. That has to build houses, upgrade houses, upgrade barracks, upgrade armories, train soldiers, build / upgrade factories, manufacture goods, and unlock technologies. These are things that need to be done that have long-term benefit to my little city (on Ceravyn, if you want to take a look at it).

This doesn't count doing anything special for the event quests *cough*"Accept 3 trades from the wholesaler"*cough*

Purchasing KP with my limited gold means that these other things don't get done. I get that it will almost certainly get better, but that doesn't make it better NOW.

If one of you kind folks will point me to a guide for fighting that is geared to beginning players, that would be nice. I have looked at the "crackle guide" (I think that's what it was; it's pinned at the top of one of the forums), and it gives some good information especially about initial placement. It does NOT, however, address strategy past the first turn in detail.

The YouTube videos I've found usually start out with "feed your fire phoenix" or some such - items that I do not have and CANNOT GET until Chapter 5 when the Spire opens. Because before then - the number of spell fragments that I have access to is very small. It's limited to what I can disenchant. And disenchanting isn't available to me yet. I *think* I get that when I unlock Crafting, but I'm not sure.

Anyways, I just got home from taking my wife to lunch. Despite my kvetching, I'm enjoying the game enough to keep playing, and I do appreciate everyone's replies. So I'm going to login and see what progress I can make.
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
So, not specific to city strategy, but certainly what set me up for success early in game. I was lucky enough to get into a good FS that gave me a lot of lopsided trades in goods. That enabled me to build up my manufactories and get my city's foundation strong. I focused on building things that would make me self-sufficient so I didn't have to continue with the lopsided trades. I autofight entirely, so early fighting was just accepting that I was going to lose troops. However, event after event is going to give you troops (either as instants in your inventory, or directly).

As @Iyapo said, those early quests are actually pretty helpful for building up your supplies, troops and coins. They may seem arbitrary, but you will be surprised to find that they actually guide you to some pretty accurate numbers early on. As you progress, you will be able to sell off residences, and probably some manufactories as well. But early game you are going to need every one you can get.

As far as the Autumn Zodiac event, I would just focus on collecting the daily drops around your city and the daily currency gifts. You won't get as far, but it will still enable you to get some daily prizes (or other prizes from the orbs) without: overscouting, trying to purchase KP you don't want to, tying up your workshops producing toolboxes, etc.

As @MaidenFair pointed out, the luscious cakes is a great prize. If you don't have currency to get that, you could always go for the daily prizes of supply instants or AW runes. For future events, consider trying for buildings that give you advanced troops you haven't yet researched (like the Training Dojo - having Rangers early in game would be quite a boon).
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I have looked at the "crackle guide" (I think that's what it was; it's pinned at the top of one of the forums), and it gives some good information especially about initial placement. It does NOT, however, address strategy past the first turn in detail.
It's called Fighting on Crack: Mastering the Art of Pew Pew. It doesn't go into detail after the first round because getting the right screenshots takes forever and a half. Unless you're doing a ton of tourney and hitting higher provinces, most encounters don't really last more than 2 or 3 rounds anyway, unless you're dragging it out and playing ring around the rosie trying to kill a heavy melee with a heavy range while doing laps around an obstacle to play keep-away. Understanding the setup and 1st round also apply to autofighters, whereas going into detail about what to do after the initial round would only help manual fighters. Not messing up the initial round is most critical and maximizes your advantage so that's what I focused on.
 
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