Struggling smaller cities

[Silly Bubbles]

I'm new to the game and I suppose I'm not really qualified to comment on this thread, but some of the comments here got me curious so I went digging around on the forums to get a better idea of some of the things you folks are talking about. Apologies in advance if I don't use the right terminology.

I'm getting frustrated with the quests and tech tree. The quest I just got requires me to have 16 residences (I have 14 currently). It wants them all upgraded to level 4. About half of mine are currently level 3. That means that I need to build more culture buildings if I want to keep any sort of bonus. That's more spaces (and time) that needs to be invested. And the gold / supplies to pay for the upgrades.

Expansion - I don't have the goods to negotiate ("cater"?). So I have to fight. That means that I need units which take time to build. And armories so I can make more units. That's more space, and gold / supplies for upgrades. I need another ten provinces by the end of this chapter in order to progress.

Then there's these 2 events that are going on. The serpent event is OK I guess - or will be OK until I get to the point where it's going to want me to buy knowledge points. I'm already going through the tech tree faster than my goods production can keep up with. Trying to progress quests is making it hard to have the space to build more factories. And given the progressing cost of buying knowledge points, if I have to buy 50 or 100 for this serpent event, that's going to hurt me badly in the future.

As for the reward - honestly it's not worth it thus far. Mine gives me an extra 200 supplies per day in its current state. I'm keeping it for the population / culture boost currently, but I don't see keeping it much longer.

And then there's my Fellowship. I just joined them, and I've discovered that I can't do ANYTHING to help them except provide the Neighborly Help once a day. Can't contribute knowledge points - don't unlock the Ancient Wonders until chapter 4. Ditto for Tournament. Chapter 5 for Spire (which looks like a lot of fun, from the videos I've watched about it).

I'm in Chapter 2, and I'm already frustrated. I've concluded that the developers have set things up so that players are meant to get frustrated so they buy diamonds to get past whatever their current roadblock is. This conclusion is based on the requirement to spend diamonds to have more than 2 builders or upgrade the magic academy past level two. That, plus the "DIAMOND SALE" in-your-face ads that pop up nearly every time I sign into the game.

You are in learning stage that's why it feels all too much. I'd focus just on couple of things that you enjoy the most and slowly add more. Don't worry about events too much at this moment because the benefits of the buildings are attached to the chapter you're in so when you enter next chapter they will be obsolete and you'll be able to get better benefits. Now, imagine how much harder it would be if you already had Spire and tournament unlocked. It's better to learn the basics first. Happy gaming!

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Sorry if its already answered, i didnt read all the replys, but i can give you my personal experience.

I think what is wrong with your city and why you are stuggling, isnt really your fault.
The fault is the flaw in the tournament and spire formula (which we have been saying since they changed it).

you are penalized by placing expansions and by getting a higher boost, so if you don't want to be struggling you need to take that knowledge to your advantage. So my advice would be, get a good FS who are willing to help you with goods or try to rely on wholesalesman. Then dont build any manufactories at all. That way you don't have to place that much expansions for your city. Not having manufactories also means you can focus on keeping your boost as low as possible. If you do it like this your small city would be having a very easy time in spire and tournament.

The main focus should be (although counterintuitive) keep your city as small as possible so place as few expansions as possible.
This advice ofcourse doesnt help struggling citys as you cant (really) undo any of the things that make it more expensive.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Sorry if its already answered, i didnt read all the replys, but i can give you my personal experience.

I think what is wrong with your city and why you are stuggling, isnt really your fault.
The fault is the flaw in the tournament and spire formula (which we have been saying since they changed it).

you are penalized by placing expansions and by getting a higher boost, so if you don't want to be struggling you need to take that knowledge to your advantage. So my advice would be, get a good FS who are willing to help you with goods or try to rely on wholesalesman. Then dont build any manufactories at all. That way you don't have to place that much expansions for your city. Not having manufactories also means you can focus on keeping your boost as low as possible. If you do it like this your small city would be having a very easy time in spire and tournament.

The main focus should be (although counterintuitive) keep your city as small as possible so place as few expansions as possible.
This advice ofcourse doesnt help struggling citys as you cant (really) undo any of the things that make it more expensive.

This might be true for players that intend to park their city in early chapters. If progress is the main priority, they should do the opposite because it's all about space. The more space, the bigger guest races settlement and production, the faster progress through chapters.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

This might be true for players that intend to park their city in early chapters. If progress is the main priority, they should do the opposite because it's all about space. The more space, the bigger guest races settlement and production, the faster progress through chapters.

i did it on one account. I parked it in chapter 15 now, wouldn't call that an early chapter, but as im not sure why id wanna go further at the moment, im staying there.
City is only 5x5, i honestly loved the challenge of doing all those guest race production in a small area.

Honestly it didnt feel slow at all with a smaller city, its a bit of a paradox since a bigger city only means you need to produce more goods and troops only to keep up because your city is bigger. Also as soon as I was able to do cheap spire in a good fellowship, I was able to get so much time boosts, i could have hurried all my productions if i wanted to (tho i didnt, i liked the slower paste).
I'm doing 15k-20k score weekly on tournament, because its really cheap if you have a small city.

I guess everyone has a different playstyle, I'm not the kind that enjoys racing through a chapter by using timeboosts etc. some people waited 8 months for the last chapter and finished it in a couple of days, good for them but sounds very boring to me...

I kinda loved tournament and spire a lot, until they did the formula rework, that sucked all the fun out of the game for me, and thats why i made that extra account in the first place. i enjoyed it very much with those self limitations, while my previous big account it only felt like a drag.

The OP asked for help with struggling smaller cities, im just giving my tips on how to prevent struggling (not how to fix it once you are struggling).

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

I am observing this from an AM perspective as well as someone that runs FS with Spire requirements. I used to be able to take in new cities from chapter 1, get them Spire ready by chapter 3, and then be mostly done with hand holding because once they get the hang of climbing at chap 3, then they know how to build their cities to climb sustainably after that. That little city grows to be a fairly strong medium city and away we go.

Now if I get them at chapter 1, I'm a broken record telling them "build more factories" for 5 chapters. All the while, they're going to tell me "Nah, I have enough goods". Yeah, you have enough goods to twiddle your thumbs because there's nothing going on with tournament and Spire delayed in tech tree! Then chapter 5 and Spire are finally unlocked and then it's <wah wah>. All I hear is can't can't can't. Sad trombooooone. Remember how I said 50000000x that you needed more factories? It's super frustrating because they're not wrong. They're probably fine with 3 factories in chapter 3 and nothing else to do. Some will hunker down and course correct, but a lot more will just panic quit. And then I would have invested several months to have that player complete 0 Spires for our FS.

Yesterday, I learned someone in Woodelves didn't know what map provinces/encounters are. This happens because he came to us from one of those newbie fellowships with newbie archmages. I don't think they had a tourney requirement, but they were actively discouraged from doing the Spire. So yeah, with minimal demands, you can willy nilly your way through 9 chapters (!!!NINE!!!) and have absolutely no basic understanding of the game at all. Last week, he learned buildings have chapters on them. I commend the guy because he is really trying to learn how to climb now and he also understands there's so much more to the game he's completely missed. I just can't believe I have to hand hold a chapter 9 city, but it's because the game now rush them through the early chapters and routes them to play together in newbie fellowships. And if we don't take them in, then he'll prob just be another player that quits like all the black triangles from whence he came from. So from AM perspective, they are definitely showing up into later chapters with much weaker foundations than before.

I think the only time I had 3 manufactories was on day two lol. I'm surprised new cities can get away with so few manufactories given the storyline quests, which tiny cities rely on for stuff they used to get in tourney and spire, have specific quests to have x number of houses, workshops and manus.

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

Exactly This!!!!!!

I was trying to reach the end chapters as fast as possible in one of my cities. I was gold spire and 2k+ in the tournaments by the end of chapter 5. It was a struggle every single week!!!



This!!! I knew what I wanted and exactly how to get there. So I pushed my city right to the bleeding edge of its ability and just lived there, the struggle in my case was self inflicted.

I backed off the racing in chapter 7 because it was less important to me than the gold spire and the tournament. I backed off from the tournament for a few weeks for the same reason. Gold Spire in that city was non negotiable.


@Gordo the gassy I think you are wise to pause your roll and take a few deep breaths while you focus on your boost%.
You can roll right back up to the bleeding edge any time you want too.(and since it is always expanding rolling up on it is the only way to keep track of it )

Haha, did I say I was pausing?

I can't pause. That's not the game I want to play. I may very well crash and burn but it'll be one ach-ee-double hockey stick of a ride!

I know why I'm struggling and have adjusted my big boy pants accordingly. I lost sight of the fact that my lean mean ch 5 beta cities have had the benefit of many events to source the finest buildings and a wonderful selection of assets. Completing the spire week after week is a breeze with level 29 needles & sanc, fully grown fire chook and a wealth of military boosters. When I finally stepped out of ch 5 I was able to complete ch 6, 7, and 8 with all my manufactories in storage thanks to the half mil of each good I'd accrued. I'll now park up at the end of ch 8 and upgrade and replenish for the next mad dash! And it's that kind of game I'm looking to emulate here.

 

[Iyapo]

Haha, did I say I was pausing?

So I'm parked up at the end of ch 5 while I work toward that magic percentage.

Yeah, you did.

i did it on one account. I parked it in chapter 15 now, wouldn't call that an early chapter, but as im not sure why id wanna go further at the moment, im staying there.
City is only 5x5, i honestly loved the challenge of doing all those guest race production in a small area.

Where is this magical city, I would like to ohhh and ahhh over it but can't locate it.

 

[Pheryll]

Where is this magical city, I would like to ohhh and ahhh over it but can't locate it.

If @Heymrdiedier is referring to the Beta city with that name, then the 5x5 area looks to be allocated for guest race buildings, while the city as a whole is much larger.

 

[Dhurrin]

I think the tech tree is pretty much the same for humans and elf from what I can tell.

I appreciate your POV on my situation, certainly lots to consider.

The techtree is pretty much the same, but the units are not. Early in the game the human units are far superior to the elven units, so human cities will find fighting easier whereas elven cities may have better luck catering more.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

If @Heymrdiedier is referring to the Beta city with that name, then the 5x5 area looks to be allocated for guest race buildings, while the city as a whole is much larger.

ooh its not, havent played beta for years now.. got stuck in elvenar chapter there since noone was able to trade sentient goods with me. And felt like such a downer i just quit it.

A bit like how i feel about my main on last chapter and getting ascending goods now. I feel like im not doing much in this chapter except wait for trades....


the city i was referring too was this one https://www.elvenstats.com/player/nl1/848889412

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

Yeah, you did.



Where is this magical city, I would like to ohhh and ahhh over it but can't locate it.

My bad, it seems there's been a miscommunication. I assumed by pause you meant a pause from climbing spire and going all out in the tourney.

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

The OP asked for help with struggling smaller cities, im just giving my tips on how to prevent struggling (not how to fix it once you are struggling).

And I appreciate the different POV and tips!

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

Sorry if its already answered, i didnt read all the replys, but i can give you my personal experience.

I think what is wrong with your city and why you are stuggling, isnt really your fault.
The fault is the flaw in the tournament and spire formula (which we have been saying since they changed it).

you are penalized by placing expansions and by getting a higher boost, so if you don't want to be struggling you need to take that knowledge to your advantage. So my advice would be, get a good FS who are willing to help you with goods or try to rely on wholesalesman. Then dont build any manufactories at all. That way you don't have to place that much expansions for your city. Not having manufactories also means you can focus on keeping your boost as low as possible. If you do it like this your small city would be having a very easy time in spire and tournament.

The main focus should be (although counterintuitive) keep your city as small as possible so place as few expansions as possible.
This advice ofcourse doesnt help struggling citys as you cant (really) undo any of the things that make it more expensive.

This is really interesting! I'd have to pass up most of the storyline quests though because they drive growth by demanding x of x level manus etc but that's not the end of the world.

I'm saving this for my next adventure lol

 

[crackie]

Well our chap 9 newbie tendered his resignation and is leaving the game after being overwhelmed since learning there is 50000 things he missed from scooting along just focusing on the tech tree and doing nothing else.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Well our chap 9 newbie tendered his resignation and is leaving the game after being overwhelmed since learning there is 50000 things he missed from scooting along just focusing on the tech tree and doing nothing else.

I would too listening to all the complaints!

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

Well our chap 9 newbie tendered his resignation and is leaving the game after being overwhelmed since learning there is 50000 things he missed from scooting along just focusing on the tech tree and doing nothing else.

That's a shame. I hope you hadn't invested too much into the player. It can be tough for AMs in that way.

 

[crackie]

That's a shame. I hope you hadn't invested too much into the player. It can be tough for AMs in that way.

Ugh. 28 wonders. A lot of that was into the Monastery to help him fight easier. He did give it his best shot though, and for that, I commend him. I thought he would be able to turn it around, although on a longer timeline. I did suggest he just find a different FS without a Spire requirement that is more casual play, but alas, that is the finicky nature and nightmare of finding the right FS. Goldilock kinda went from too easy to too hard and never tasted anything in between. Also, now that he knows what he knows, it probably feels like he's still so behind the curve from everyone at his chapter even if he did switch to a casual FS. It's overwhelming and not great for morale.

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

Ugh. 28 wonders. A lot of that was into the Monastery to help him fight easier. He did give it his best shot though, and for that, I commend him. I thought he would be able to turn it around, although on a longer timeline. I did suggest he just find a different FS without a Spire requirement that is more casual play, but alas, that is the finicky nature and nightmare of finding the right FS. Goldilock kinda went from too easy to too hard and never tasted anything in between. Also, now that he knows what he knows, it probably feels like he's still so behind the curve from everyone at his chapter even if he did switch to a casual FS. It's overwhelming and not great for morale.

I remember feeling that way with the first city I built even though I followed the usual style of play. Now I don't take the game so seriously (not that I think others should play like me). My biggest concern is always to be in a fellowship where my style is an asset. The team work is the best aspect of the game and a great AM is critical. It sounds like your team has that in you.

 

[MichaelMichael]

My take is old, but I followed some basic rules in developing my human one city (currently a little over half way through chapter 21).

1. The primary goal is to add expansions
2. Core buildings are best - Workshops, Residences and Manufactories.
3. Bigger and better buildings are always best - Speed through chapters with the priority of upgrading core buildings
4. Scout flat out at all times - more space is more goods, coins & supplies
5. Culture bonus is a requirement - gained by visiting lots of neighbors and having high value culture buildings to visit.
6. Overbuild Workshops - the cost of being caught short is way too high - plan ahead looking at all upgrade requirement each chapter
7. Fighting ability sucks early on - Cater and build more manufactories.
8. Fighting is a waste of real estate and resources until chapter 6 (and probably later)
9. Climb the spire, complete tourney, and do events to what ever extent resources allow after items 1-4
10. Tourney increases manufactory bonus - this is more important early
11. Spire is for time instants, diamonds, and CCs - items used judiciously for the MA.
12. Events should focus on daily prizes (mostly buildings). Other items are an added bonus.
13. Objective 3 requires planning out to minimize time when you are research locked. Planning can solve (or at least minimize) all set backs.
14. Ruthlessly eliminate old event (or other) buildings with new and better buildings. If you have any building 4 or more chapters old, outside of a few critical evolving building, you are doing it wrong.

Each chapter is a new challenge needing a new solution. I finished through chapter 18 in less than 2 years by rushing through everything - typically 6 months faster than most leading players. I have absolutely no idea or understanding why anyone would ever park a city in any chapter. You can always optimize when you have better buildings available. Planning and adapting is a lot of work but it is core to my enjoyment of Elvenar.

 

[Deleted User - 850238979]

My take is old, but I followed some basic rules in developing my human one city (currently a little over half way through chapter 21).

1. The primary goal is to add expansions
2. Core building are best - Workshops, Residences and Manufactories.
3. Bigger and better building are always best - Speed through chapter with the priority of upgrading core buildings
4. Scout flat out at all times - more space is more goods, coins & supplies
5. Culture bonus is a requirement - gained by visiting lots of neighbors and having high valuable culture buildings to visit.
6. Overbuild Workshops - the cost of being caught short is way too high - plan ahead looking at all upgrade requirement each chapter
7. Fighting ability sucks early on - Cater and build more manufactories.
8. Fighting is a waste of real estate and resources until chapter 6 (and probably later)
9. Climb the spire, complete tourney, and do event to what ever extent resources allow after items 1-4
10. Tourney is to increase manufactory bonus - this is more important early
11. Spire is for time instants, diamonds, and CCs - items used judiciously for the MA.
12. Events should focus on daily prizes (mostly buildings). Other items are an added bonus.
13. Objective 3 require planning out to minimize time when you are research locked. Planning can solve (or at least minimize) all set backs.
14. Ruthlessly eliminate old event (or other) building with new and better buildings. If you have any building 4 or more chapters old outside of a few of evolving building - you are doing it wrong.

Each chapter is a new challenge needing a new solution. I finished the through chapter 18 in less than 2 years by rushing through everything - typically 6 months faster than most leading players. I have absolutely no idea or understanding why anyone would ever park a city in any chapter. You can always optimize when you have better buildings available. Planning and adapting is a lot of work but it is core to my enjoyment of Elvenar.

There's a lot of great advice here and it seems you've figured out how you like to play the game and have structured your growth around that which is smart!