The Crack Guide to Fighting

[samidodamage]

@crackie
Lots of caveats here, lol! I'm horrible with pics, have worked only with Paint, and still have to watch videos to do some basic stuff there. I've tried to somewhat recreate the graphic I'm talking about. It's an awful reproduction. For one, I couldn't find a video for 'how to put arrows on the end of straight lines in paint?'
I'm putting it in a spoiler so (a) not everyone has to load it that comes in the thread and (b) hoping someone who's better with pics comes up with one that deserves to be loaded when someone comes into the tread.

Spoiler

Each line should have an arrow on the right end:

Going along the line from left to right (where the arrow would be), you could see that the sword dancer for example had a strong attack against LR and Mage. Going from the right to the left (arrow back to the blunt end of the line) shows the sword dancer is vulnerable to HR and HM.

 

[crackie]

Lots of caveats here, lol!

My initial reaction was "That's NOT a circle, @samidodamage! I will never let you live this down! HAHAHA " And then I read it and learned this is what you created and not what you found. Darn. *puts pointing and laugh kit away*

But yeah, it's what I said...it's the Initiative order, except with the Mage and Light Range flipped.

I would also love for you to open a signature shop in the Artists Corner though. I want to see MS Paint avatars and signatures. Maybe my next one, I'll do a MS Paint avatar or signature.

 

[The Fairy]

it's the Initiative order, except with the Mage and Light Range flipped.

It is the order they appear in the training buildings and in the list where you select troops from when fighting. I, like @samidodamage , used this order to remember the troop strengths.

 

[Dreamyn2]

I would also love for you to open a signature shop in the Artists Corner though. I want to see MS Paint avatars and signatures. Maybe my next one, I'll do a MS Paint avatar or signature.

*Foresees more shenanigans… oh boy!!*

 

[Zoof]

Dammit now I've got an urge to pop open Paint.net and cobble together some manner of infographic that might have a chance at being helpful.

Tomorrow. Tomorrow, I'll ask someone to hold onto my tophat.

 

[crackie]

It is the order they appear in the training buildings and in the list where you select troops from when fighting. I, like @samidodamage , used this order to remember the troop strengths.

I looked and yes it is!

*Foresees more shenanigans… oh boy!!*

I don't know how @Sir Squirrel has the patience and longevity to do what he does. Must be those kind and polite Canadian sensibilities coming through. I feel like the only way you'd get me to open up shop is if I get to make whatever the heck I feel like making for you. The player has no say in it. AT ALL! No revisions either. And if we're going to be honest, I'm pretty sure whatever I decide to make is probably not what you'll want anyway. Unlike Sir Squirrel, I'm here to placate my own visual amusement, not to fulfill your needs. In which case, it's probably best for all parties involved that I don't even get started. Asking the Shenanigan Elves to make you an avatar/signature is prob not a good idea.

Dammit now I've got an urge to pop open Paint.net and cobble together some manner of infographic that might have a chance at being helpful.

You can submit your Paint version of an Elvenar splashscreen here and maybe KingOlaf will come back and buy it...one day. You can't win the lotto if you don't play.

 

[crackie]

I've appended Using Army Setup Window to Determine Strengths and Weaknesses to the Know Thy Friends and Enemies entry. Is that clear enough?

 

[Lady Dastardly]

Is that clear enough?

Looks good, although you might want to mention that it wraps around. (It's obvious to me, but maybe not to newbies?)

 

[Deleted User - 849777001]

I know I am very simplistic...but:
I play on the app...and autofight is all I can do.
So early on, I just tapped the opponent's icon to see what his strength was, and then placed my strongest troop right opposite him...Same for all five positions.
I sometimes didn't lose any troops...not often... but it made me put them face to face. I cater as soon as their troop # is greater than mine...so I never get too deep into "fodder troops"

 

[crackie]

I play on the app...and autofight is all I can do.
So early on, I just tapped the opponent's icon to see what his strength was, and then placed my strongest troop right opposite him...Same for all five positions.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! We are here to depart knowledge to help you get better…if you want to. From a sports perspective, sometimes the difference between an elite athlete and a high school athlete is the elite athlete has infinitely way higher game IQ despite all physical skills being equal. The elite athletes know how to take advantage of even the smallest things and add it to their repertoire.

If you go to the Know Thy Friends and Enemies battle tip, you will see even using the unit info the game gives you, it can be somewhat misleading if that unit is your best choice of options. It’s not giving you wrong information, but it’s not presenting the best information. Using the Unit Stats page is more accurate.

I cater as soon as their troop # is greater than mine...so I never get too deep into "fodder troops"

You can win battles where their troop # is greater than yours. I mean, know your limits obviously, but just because they outnumber you does not mean you are in trouble. Many times you can still win. And then if you have wonders and military buff buildings or Fire Phoenix, then you have the advantage even if you are outnumbered. It’s like there are 100 of them fighting with knives and you might have only one unit, but your one unit is a tank. You wouldn’t be worried at all.

 

[Zoof]

You can win battles where their troop # is greater than yours. I mean, know your limits obviously, but just because they outnumber you does not mean you are in trouble. Many times you can still win. And then if you have wonders and military buff buildings or Fire Phoenix, then you have the advantage even if you are outnumbered. It’s like there are 100 of them fighting with knives and you might have only one unit, but your one unit is a tank. You wouldn’t be worried at all.

I fully understand this sentiment and mostly agree with you.

The part that disagrees is also the part that acknowledges that autofighting does very silly things which diminishes your tank's advantage. See:

 

[Raccon]

I fully understand this sentiment and mostly agree with you.

The part that disagrees is also the part that acknowledges that autofighting does very silly things which diminishes your tank's advantage. See:

That of course if, by a very rare chance, there are no over privileged Mist Walkers among your enemy troops.
Mist walkers are always the first to strike, they can reach anywhere on the battle field, they shrug off your troop's buffs and debuffs and very resiliat even against heavy range shots, as if you're shooting marshmallows at them

 

[crackie]

Ex: Sword Dancer is flagged as 'good' against Archers. That does not necessarily mean it is the best choice against Archers.

Ugh. I just won Sword Dancer troop instants in my MA mystery object chest. Seriously?? They're the Winter Lampions of Troop Instants.

The part that disagrees is also the part that acknowledges that autofighting does very silly things which diminishes your tank's advantage. See:

This is not wrong! That guy also looks like he's trying to fight the weather.

 

[Smooper]

Since we are discussing the positioning here, can I ask if it is fruitless most of the time to place your troop opposite the foe they are strongest against when they end up walking 2 hexes over to get around the rock that is in the way?

 

[Yavimaya]

Since we are discussing the positioning here, can I ask if it is fruitless most of the time to place your troop opposite the foe they are strongest against when they end up walking 2 hexes over to get around the rock that is in the way?

And on mobile I cannot see a rock! Lol. Can't wait until I can be home more to use my pc and learn manual.

 

[Deleted User - 849777001]

I am actually exploring my new practice city, by using my recently repaired PC.
I am trying to apply what I learn (from Forum folks) to improve my understanding of all matters Elvenar...and yall are my heroes!

 

[Sir Squirrel]

When in doubt use Buddy!! lol (sometimes!)

 

[crackie]

Since we are discussing the positioning here, can I ask if it is fruitless most of the time to place your troop opposite the foe they are strongest against when they end up walking 2 hexes over to get around the rock that is in the way?

I don't think it's fruitless because you're setting up for probability in outcomes, esp when autofighting. I'll use LR vs mages as an example. If you have a decent Needles, you can kill a mage in one shot on opening round. With the exception of Mist Walker, no one is acting before you so you get to fire first while the chessboard is still undisturbed with everyone in their starting positions. Bearing no obstacles, the only shot a barrack LR in Positions I, IV, and V can take is to walk across and shoot whatever is in front of them. Therefore, even if you autofight, you can expect AI to do this because it's his only shot. It's no longer chance...it becomes math. Now if there is an obstacle in the way, this shot will be blocked. HOWEVERRRRRR...that's where Mr. Ranger comes in. He has an extra movement compared to barrack LR units and CAN walk around an obstacle to still shoot the mage. That extra movement is enough to overcome a lot of variations of obstacle setups. So in those positions, the Ranger has enough advantage over an Archer to make a difference on whether he can take down that mage or not. It's still a very high probability outcome pairing the strongest unit across from its designated enemy. Also, most players with manual fighting experience know to lean away from melee units as much as possible because it is a high probability that they get nothing done due to obstacles and they need to walk up directly next to someone to do anything. They either take scenic strolls and never make it to the battle or they are getting bombarded by long range Abbot and Cannoneer artillery fire and die before they reach the battle scene.

The more you understand a unit’s initiative, movement, and range numbers, the more you can stray from general strategy and implement specific strategies, similar to if you buff enough, you can throw the combat pentagon out the window. For example, @samidodamage and I have discussed in the past the strategy of lining up mages across hellhounds. Even though mages are weakest against hellhounds, knowing initiative means deploying this strategy in certain cases is the better option.

 

[Smooper]

For example, @samidodamage and I have discussed in the past the strategy of lining up mages across hellhounds. Even though mages are weakest against hellhounds, knowing initiative means deploying this strategy in certain cases is the better option.

Especially if they aren't the slowest version of Hell Hound. Those fast ones suck but sometimes you can block them with the hated HM and then they are toast. But only if they don't reach their target on round 1.

 

[Smooper]

I have been reading your battle guide and I think it is missing two things: one the most important tactic (to me) is kiting and probably should be discussed and second, most of your examples occur on a clear battlefield but this never happens and a lot of the time starting position is overrated so either surrender or learning how to hang back on round one is another very important strategy or tactic.