Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Sure, I could post some screenshots of my tournament encounters, assuming the others would do the same to back up their numbers. I am not the one who has a point to prove, it is the ones just throwing out numbers.
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Your Elvenar Team
Tournament Changes
- Thread starter helya
- Start date
Sure, I could post some screenshots of my tournament encounters, assuming the others would do the same to back up their numbers. I am not the one who has a point to prove, it is the ones just throwing out numbers.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@Enevhar Aldarion Great, let's do it.
So what data do we need? From @MinMax Gamer 's site I think it's these:
This will be good data for the other feedback thread- I'd like to take each of your cities data (and mine) and see how it changes if you complete chapter 17 for example and other choices like +5 level per AW
So what data do we need? From @MinMax Gamer 's site I think it's these:
- maxB – maximum unlocked boost percentage for T1/T2/T3 goods
- M – total number of unlocked mandatory tech items (research)
- A – total number of AW levels (including currently upgrading)
- V – number of placed non-premium expansions (including initial 6)
- P – number of placed premium expansions
This will be good data for the other feedback thread- I'd like to take each of your cities data (and mine) and see how it changes if you complete chapter 17 for example and other choices like +5 level per AW
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
@SoggyShorts you already know all that about me because I am at the end of chapter 16 and all that shows up on elvenstats. I want to see an actual screenshot from Ed showing he has the 50k troop squad size he threw out as an example. And I want to see clusseau's screenshot showing his tournament squad size of 40-80 times his normal squad size. They need to back up their claims.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Cost of next premium expansion?
Also, I don't really have a dog in this fight.
You are the lone voice claiming that all is well because the changes have given you no pain.
Others are claiming otherwise therefore IMO it's up to both parties to put in a little bit of effort to try and see where the facts point.
I assumed it was an exaggeration to make a point.
My question to you is: Do you actually want to get accurate data and try to understand things from another player's perspective or are you just out to win an argument?
DeletedUser19458
Guest
It was for me an exaggerated number for the purpose of showing you one of the primary reasons people dislike the change and are complaining, and you shrugged it off as an after-thought, which tells me you do not understand what the problem is at all. You are also insulting in how you try to convey your point and why nobody here is inclined to side with you, factual or not.
I do not have nearly the level of expansions nor wonders as many others; this is me at the start of province 28. So although I exaggerated 50k, it was not a stretch to think some people here are facing it.
Edit: Just want to add, the other primary issue that seems to not be coming across, is that this change was absolutely not applied fairly. I used to get top 20 fairly regularly in tournament, and up to top 5 on good weeks especially T1. So far in the easiest 3 weeks, I am struggling to stay top 100. If this was a universal, fair change, I would be able to still run somewhere near that top 20 using same amount of effort/resources. If I want top 20 now, the cost is much much more.
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
That is about what I have for numbers in province 24 - star 1, so four provinces sooner than you, and I do not think it is that big a deal.
And no, from my understanding of things from Beta, this was supposed to make things more fair for everyone by making it easier for early to mid-chapter players, and taking away what Inno considers the unfair advantage endgame players had. Obviously, some people disagreed with that or did not like their advantage being messed with.
StarLoad
Well-Known Member
First off, I never said 50K troop Squad size, get your facts right.
Pheryll
Set Designer
I am not sure where you are getting this from. The diagonal system for difficulty was to discourage going too far with minimal difficulty, which applies to all chapters. The CAL squad size system was announced to encourage people to progress through chapters even though it did not make this goal. All these things were announced through the developer videos. I have not seen word from the developers that showed that they thought the midchapter players to be suffering from an unfair disadvantage.
Clusseau
Active Member
Hm, sounds like classic straw-man argument?
Create a false position for your opponent, and argue against that, instead of what they actually said?
Ive not claimed squad size is 40-80x . Ive said that many squads must be sent to do a battle.
I'll attach a screen of where i stopped this week, province 40, first round.
My squad size, like many i assume, is 5316. In this battle, i must send 43380/5316 = 8.1 squads per slot,
8.1 x 5 slots means 40.5 squads needed to fight.
In Marble/Steel i went further, and the last battle i checked required 17 squads per slot, (=80 squads to fight the battle).
My complaint has been that in battles such as this, even an easy victory (vs an opponent x2 size) will burn 8-10 squads.
With L31 Needles/Simia, my barracks will produce about 1.5 squads per hour.
I'll add that i have L31 Fly Academy, and L12 Vic spring. I'll leave you to do whatever math you like to guess how many of these battles you could do per week, -and how many of the more expensive ones that follow. And, no, Im not feeling inclined at this time to prove to you that my squad size is 5316, or that this is battle 40-1.
Heymrdiedier
Active Member
this is my province 21, round 3
Imo way to expensive, and i hate tournament on this account now. I used to do 60-70 provinces and have fun doing it. I dont mind the loss of kp, i mind the uselessness, I feel like im running for president in a rigged election. (like in N korea of Russia maybe)
Imo way to expensive, and i hate tournament on this account now. I used to do 60-70 provinces and have fun doing it. I dont mind the loss of kp, i mind the uselessness, I feel like im running for president in a rigged election. (like in N korea of Russia maybe)
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
So about double mine at the same point. The question is, do you have a bunch more premium expansions or a bunch more AW levels, or both, that makes such a huge difference? I am guessing it is the expansions more than the AW levels making that difference. And I think that is the spot where Inno needs to rethink their formula, as a lot of people are saying that people spending diamonds should not be getting punished for that.
Heymrdiedier
Active Member
does it matter how many expansions or AW levels i have? surely the wonders and expansions alows met to train more then 150% of your troops you train(since the costs increases less then the benefit of both according to announcement).
At least thats how inno's logic is, i dont really agree with it, but im tried of saying the same things over and over.
So as a result, im making a account that exploits the weak points of this formula (no expansions, no goods bonus, no wonders) and then ill have a laugh when i can do 40K points on that account with a minimal costs. Of course it will take me a while till that account is ready, but at least it keeps me bussy and i enjoy the game again on that account since the game on my main account is basically game over.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
No, I think @MinMax Gamer and his numbers would say differently. The expansions, especially the premium ones, make a huge difference in squad sizes.
Pheryll
Set Designer
The premium ones are those that are discounted in the formula. That said, there are wonders that will militarily make a huge difference; so a no wonder approach is not optimal.
DeletedUser7462
Guest
My squad size is 3258 so I should be using 3095 archers and 1548 orc strategist in the old tournaments province 19
Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
Guess you do not really understand the forumula.
It's A * B * C * D
You can never say A or B is the main culprit as they are MULTIPLIED.
How much A, B, C or D adds depends on the other 3 values and cannot me taken on it's own.
because it's a multiply keeping 1 value expremely low, can have a big impact. keeping relic bonus on 0 for example can slash your negotiation costs by a factor of 36 (~50 vs 1800)
Instead of saying we come up with unrealistic numbers, start playing in MinMax sheet with all the values. you can find some crazy differences.
For example here 3 town in chapter 16, 1 Maxed, 1 Average, and one Super efficient
These are cities that actually exist already and will exist in the future as people start to build towards it.
The difference normal and maxed is almost 300%, thats no joke and between super optimised (tho it should not have progressed past chapter 15 as there is no benefit) is 2300%
These are not even the most extreme examples you can come up with that are possible, but 3 conservative examples that show the problem and that we can verify with calculations
The one that thats screwed the most in this example is the person who spend the most money in this game.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Yep, and I said just that over in the other thread that Nightguest started. Seriously, there will only be 39 premium expansions once chapter 17 goes to Live. As I said over there, they need to cut the increase to squad size from them at least in half. And maybe they really should not count them at all. That would be the nicer thing to do for the diamond spenders. But that is probably unlikely, considering how many players have bought expansions with free diamonds. But reducing the effect by half would be a good first step.
Deleted User - 3932582
Guest
Can confirm numbers and existence of examples 2 and 3 (well, very close). But do you know of existing examples of chapter 16 cities in 25 expansions? I suppose it is theoretically possible, but if someone did that already (for whatever reason), they would be in great shape for tournaments for quite a while...
Mykan
Oh Wise One
If the goal was to remove unfair advantage and mass farming of kp, best look at the scores in elvenstats as there was an epic fail. The complaints I have seen about endgame players doing less is the lack of ability to carry fellowships when life prevents the smaller towns getting the points that are now gifted to them. From the CM post this is likely more unique to US servers and seriously doubt inno will change that.
Generally the complaints from big towns are about been penalised for progressing and fairness. Hard to talk about advantages they had cause it was minimal (techs for some units) and had offsetting disadvantages in many cases (optional SS already researched, arguably a bigger disadvantage). The imbalance as previously posted was around 70% on the higher end, closer to 30% in many cases (iirc), while now it is 1000% and growing.
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