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    Your Elvenar Team

Unknown eggs discovered in Elvenar

DeletedUser2963

Guest
Really disappointing that the 2x1 prizes like the Unicorns are still being offered one at a time only, instead of in pairs as they were in Summer Solstice. What is the reason for this change? They're lovely, but obviously such poor value compared to larger buildings. So silly.
I agree with this 100%. @Inno they are small and under performing, these should be in groups of more than 1 :D

Anyone who picks the Leaf Codex instead of the Observatory is crippling their progress for esthetics, and this is bad prize design. There is no other way to put it.
I respectfully submit, for your consideration, that using the term "crippling" might be a bit overstated. Having said that, I also agree 100%. Pure culture buildings of the same size should provide the same amount.

Anyone who picks anything smaller than 3x3 needs to have his/her head examined. Because there is a limited number of rewards, largest per square reward performance is irrelevant; you should get the largest reward buildings, which offer the largest total boost to your pop and culture compared to the standard buildings.
lol

I am a unicorn junkie, and would love it if they shipped them in teams again. I got two of the observatories, because I love them, I will confess I did not even check the culture :) and I am not deleting the two I got from summer solstice(yes I know, waste of space, don't care). I have every intention of trying to get at least two more rainbow ponies(unicorns), I only have one, he is lonely.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Requiring to polish unicorns is just disrespect and a waste of their time
That was just an example (I do not have a unicorn, so I do not know and I always find my fellows largest building to polish, so I do not check on those small ones). There is a bunch of 2x2 garbage there which are polishable.

Well, Soggy effectively negated the post I was typing. So here's a briefer one. It's fine for you to think buildings smaller than 3x3 are trash. It's not fine to say I should have my head examined because I want a codex to be worth as much as an observatory that takes up the same space. I suspect most people smart enough to figure out how to polish culture are also able to make some decision about which is best. If they pick a smaller one, it's my problem, not yours.
I respectfully submit, for your consideration, that using the term "crippling" might be a bit overstated. Having said that, I also agree 100%. Pure culture buildings of the same size should provide the same amount.
Respectfully considered. While my hyperbole might be a bit over the top, I stand by the intent of the statement and am pleased you agree.
 
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DeletedUser6919

Guest
I got two of the observatories, because I love them, I will confess I did not even check the culture :) and I am not deleting the two I got from summer solstice(yes I know, waste of space, don't care). I have every intention of trying to get at least two more rainbow ponies(unicorns), I only have one, he is lonely.

i am of same ilk... some bldg i want for art, personal worth...others i calculate. 4 example : i need BAD pop and culture...event to help with that and advanced residence coming up in tech tree, yet i spent eggs on burning easter egg. why ? because i want it and will enjoy it for game entirety, i hope. i could justify having it by selling off lesser bldg and having a win / win. as for my 2 fire towers, i didn't need 2. didn't need 1 even but have 2. now I'm glad and want to keep 1 tower, again personal art desire. my other tower is holding space for the event orc strategist grounds. i can sell my tower, and sell a deli/butcher, coming out with 10 spaces and a little culture a head...along with having orc strategists for free, added to my army long before orc chapters.. so not for art sake but because it is a win/win/win move . as for the merchant, my boo boo and i will get rid of it at sometime without a sense of loss. I'm passing on the ponies though the rainbow 1 is tempting...but like i said ...i REALLY need pop and culture BAD. waiting for phoenix cult.... crap, the rainbow pony has pop and culture though a small amount, only takes a lil space...crap there may go another egg .
 

DeletedUser6335

Guest
I feel like I should point out - not all players are in it for the Ranking, therefor they do not necessarily care about number crunching. As @Ashrem pointed out in an earlier post here...the look, the aesthetics -some might even prefer a "theme"; certain colors or things dealing only with water as opposed to fire.

Also, for some of us (me as a prime example) - I'm a bit crunched for space and trying to figure as much as I can out on my own while also sticking to an idea of what I want my city to look like. This means some of the smaller items that night not be desirable by others would "work" for me, at least until I get bigger - have more space - and learn a bit more about the game and working within it to achieve my vision.

I thank people here for pointing out what is not the best as far as number crunching, but here - as in other games..just because it is "junk" to *you* doesn't mean it is to everyone else. Why make someone else feel bad about their preferences/choices or for them using what they can for the time being?
 

DeletedUser7213

Guest
Anyone who picks anything smaller than 3x3 needs to have his/her head examined. Because there is a limited number of rewards, largest per square reward performance is irrelevant; you should get the largest reward buildings, which offer the largest total boost to your pop and culture compared to the standard buildings.

Um, yeah. No. Welcome to reality, where things have to be taken with context in consideration. As you don't appear to care for the politically-correct phrasing of things, I'll roll with your wishes and try to help you see how big of an idiot you come across as by making this claim.

First off, you're not 100% wrong. There is a fallacy in jumping all over something because it offers the best per square value. But amusingly enough, it is on par with the fallacy of jumping all over something because it offers the biggest gross numbers. (Implying that you, sir snowman, might consider cutting in the head-check line that you're forming for those who disagree with you.)

Consider this: if Inno offers a new value reward "UNICORN'S HORN", a 1x1 with a ch.1 value of 75 culture and also say they also come up with a new largest building "GIGANTIHUGE'S KEEP" a 5x7 with a ch.1 value of 900 culture. {Both these numbers are pulled from current top-tier rewards x 1.2, so if squinted at in just the right poor lighting, we can excuse them as being fair, or perhaps equally unfair.}

You have cleverly discovered that per-square value isn't the whole of the story, this holiday most people are likely to get around 10 buildings, meaning that someone going all in for 1x1s will get a total of 750 culture, while someone going for size will pull in a whopping 9000. Stack on top of that your astute observation that neighborly help is less than efficient with smaller buildings, the poor newbie with ten 1x1s and two friend visits has just barely caught up to the culture of one of the 5x7s, whereas those same two visits would bring in a 1800 more culture for the colossal connoisseur.

But the poor sap who swung the other way is ever bit as screwed, if not moreso. As the proud owner of ten 5x7s it will now take you 14 expansion slots just to lay them all down. By the time you have the room to spare, you'll have progressed to the point where other holidays have happened, or simple progress has opened up higher value buildings, rendering the holiday prizes wasted in your bags. Even the ones that you do place will age quickly, and will be some of the first buildings to be scrapped. A 1x1 that has been outgrown and no longer is the best value per square will still find a corner or road-end to brighten up for quite some time. A large building is quickly trashed and the space used for better things.

So, wait. It seems like (gasp!) blanket statements of "x is best, and anyone who chooses y needs their heads examined" might be (the horror!) ill-thought out‽ What‽‽‽!!1!!one!!!

Adaptability is key. If you have tonnes of space, go ahead, lean harder on the larger buildings. I personally am hoping for 3 of the Phoenix Cults, they'll work just fine for my planned layout. But small buildings have their place, in fact, lots of them, and new places can and often will be found for them. The Rainbow Flower Cage is awesome; having 3-4 of them is like having a free residence that gives culture instead of taking it, doesn't require a road, and can be broken apart and tucked into literally any possible opening. They're so good, it generally takes either a very tight new optimization run or another holiday offering Rainbow Flower Cages before you'll ever recycle them. And things in the middle, are in the middle: easier and faster to place than large things, more impactful and buff-friendly than the small things. Usually a variety is ideal, with at least one or two larger, sub-optimal buildings catching neighbor buffs, a few small things tucked in the awkward corners that can't be otherwise filled, and the rest spent filling what space you have now and in the next 2-3 months ahead with as high of a value-per-square that still manages to fill your allocated space.
 

DeletedUser4220

Guest
I'll roll with your wishes and try to help you see how big of an idiot you come across as by making this claim.
First off, you're not 100% wrong.
Thanks for "the personal compliments". No hard feelings.
Here is where you go wrong. To optimize my "real-estate" I lay out my city around large buildings tucked in the corners and the edges so that I use a minimal amount of roads. I barely have any spaces left for little trash, unless they are temporary and I fill them with "regular" small culture building. Every time I get anything bigger and/or more efficient available, I delete the small trash (without feeling any guilt) instead of keeping it to hold me back. I have not bought any diamond buildings and ranked #1 on Khelonaar after the winter event. A month later I dropped to #3 after a fake player with 2 alts, bought all diamonds buildings, and paid for all his KPs and race goods and also for instant-builds. To make room for university I had to clear more space, and I dropped to #6. Watch me get back to #1 after this event is over and I get the A&D research finished. I hope you learn something.
 

DeletedUser6335

Guest
I'll say it again - because it bears repeating - Not every player is in the game for Ranking. Some like the building, some the social, some just want something to spend a little time on; some will spend "free" Diamonds and nothing else, some will drop a little money here and there, others will drop enough to choke a horse. Just because someone doesn't play how you do does not make them an idiot/moron/stupid person or any other name you'd care to apply to them; there need not be posting that certain "types" of players need 'help' or what-not. There are many ways to play, many reasons to play - and each is valid for the player that has them.

People come here to discuss, to be sociable - not one of them should feel belittled and/or ridiculed. Helping is one thing - name calling is another.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
There's really nothing to be gained from making things personal

Thanks for "the personal compliments". No hard feelings.
Here is where you go wrong.
He's not wrong, though, he's just got a different philosophy. Nobody is "wrong" for how they want to make their city. Players need to respect each other and not issue insults because someone is doing things a different way.
 

DeletedUser7213

Guest
I hope you learn something.
I'd love to see how you optimize your layout. Do you use elvenarchitect, by chance?

Edit: Nevermind, I just rolled on your server and dropped by for a visit. Turns out your Winter Stars show that you aren't as hardcore "only go with the biggest building possible" as your first post indicates. Also, either you didn't get very lucky with winter buildings, or have been forced to delete/not place some, which implies you'd have been better off getting some more winter stars in lieu of so many glacier gardens, you could have 580 more pop and still have room left over for another Treant's grave and Wood Ghost's housing, so 580+152+260=992 more culture as well as 260 mana/12hr.

A very impressive city though, and you weren't exaggerating your rank. Very well done.
 
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DeletedUser4220

Guest
I preferred glacier gardens over anything else this winter, as they gave me the max boost to pop, which makes them superior to the equal number of winter stars I could have gotten instead with similar luck. The stars came at the end of the event and I was not lucky enough (with the leftover flakes), so I got only 2.
If I have saved some space by placing stars instead of gardens, I would have to place regular houses and Wood ghosts to fill the remaining equivalent space, but by my calculation (posted in winter event thread) that would be much less efficient then going with Gardens only.
I had to delete some stuff to make room for University so what you see today is not a very optimal city as it used to be.
 
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mikeledo

Well-Known Member
I have cashed in 140 eggs, about 8 times now. The top prize is 25% chance, so I should have about 2 buildings or whatever that top prize happens to be. So far I have none. Now I realize past rolls don't effect the present, but I am beginning to feel like this is akin to on line poker.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I have cashed in 140 eggs, about 8 times now. The top prize is 25% chance, so I should have about 2 buildings or whatever that top prize happens to be. So far I have none. Now I realize past rolls don't effect the present, but I am beginning to feel like this is akin to on line poker.
You're going to get hit with a bunch of "how random works" stuff, so I'll pass on that part. Life is less stressful if you look at the prizes as a lottery you don't have to pay to enter. Because that's really what it is.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I have cashed in 140 eggs, about 8 times now. The top prize is 25% chance, so I should have about 2 buildings
The odds of that happening are about 10%. Math link
Unless any of those eggs you opened gave you free ess that you used to open another egg.
For example if you opened 6 eggs, won 140 free ess, and then opened 2 more you should count that as opening 7 total, not 8.
The odds of getting no building with 7 eggs goes up to 14%
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I get magic dust mites about 50% of the time.

Well, if you opened "about 8 eggs" and get free essence "about 50% of the time", then as an example you would have gotten
  1. free egg
  2. relics or other non ess/building
  3. free egg
  4. relics or other non ess/building
  5. free egg
  6. relics or other non ess/building
  7. free egg
  8. relics or other non ess/building
So you only actually had 4 chances at a building with a 25% shot. Getting zero buildings in 4 tries has a 32% chance of occurring, so I wouldn't feel too bad about it. (I wouldn't be thrilled either though lol)
 

DeletedUser4220

Guest
My luck is really sucking this event also :(. So far 4 buildings 50 or so tries on the small egg.
:)
You are doing better than expected. 50*7% =350%; that is only 3.5 buildings is expected from 50 tries on the small eggs (only 7% building chance)
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
My luck is really sucking this event also :(. So far 4 buildings 50 or so tries on the small egg.
You are doing better than expected. 50*7% =350%; that is only 3.5 buildings is expected from 50 tries on the small eggs (only 7% building chance)
It really depends: did you spend 2,500 ess, or open 50 small eggs? there's a huge difference because of the 30% chance to win ess.
The more accurate way to see how you are doing vs RNGesus is to see how many ess you spend and compare it to this.
Edit: 2,500 ess spent (net) should get you 6 buildings due to the times when you make a profit by winning 90 ess for the cost of 50.
 
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