Cross Tier Trades

[mucksterme]

It is funny. I came here today to start a Cross Tier thread. It has been a while since we discussed it.

Here are my thoughts. Some of which will be repeats of other folks, but my thoughts are always worth inserting.

First.
Cross Trading definitely has its place. It can be a necessity for newer players who need T2 or T3 goods but aren't yet producing enough.
Second
I think we all agree that Inno's idea of fair trades is ridiculous.
IF I post a cross trade I tend to be generous.
Say, 10,000 scroll for 5000 Gem.
But then I am always flush with T1 and T2. My usual offerings would be like 11000 Steel for 10000 Plank.
Third
As someone else mentioned. If you are the type of person who thinks Inno's idea of fair is correct. And you think I should be glad to give you 16000 Steel for your 1000 Elixirs, why do I never see you offering 16000 planks for my 1000 Dust. I'll take those all day. Well, actually, I'd only be able to take it 500 or 600 times, but still, bring it on.

In conclusion and confusion
I'm not a fan of cross trades. ESPECIALLY not T3 : T1. I will mostly ignore them.
I make some exceptions for FS members and small neighbors who probably need the help.

PS
I'd really love to tag one of my neighbors who is I know reads the forum. But I'll let it go.

PPS
Didn't notice this post before.

K, sorry i have the real need here to poke this dead horse one more time and a last time for me just because i see this trade thing come up SOOOOOO much.
Bottom of the barrel if you don't like cross tier trades don't take them,

It can also be said that if you are bothered by the existence of a thread and have nothing to add to the discussion, ignore it. Same principle. Change the channel. Turn off the TV. Strangle the bunny. Take the horse for a walk. Read a book. Throw asparagus at a mime.
ummm
I may have gotten off track there

 

[DeletedUser7527]

It is funny. I came here today to start a Cross Tier thread. It has been a while since we discussed it.

Here are my thoughts. Some of which will be repeats of other folks, but my thoughts are always worth inserting.

First.
Cross Trading definitely has its place. It can be a necessity for newer players who need T2 or T3 goods but aren't yet producing enough.
Second
I think we all agree that Inno's idea of fair trades is ridiculous.
IF I post a cross trade I tend to be generous.
Say, 10,000 scroll for 5000 Gem.
But then I am always flush with T1 and T2. My usual offerings would be like 11000 Steel for 10000 Plank.
Third
As someone else mentioned. If you are the type of person who thinks Inno's idea of fair is correct. And you think I should be glad to give you 16000 Steel for your 1000 Elixirs, why do I never see you offering 16000 planks for my 1000 Dust. I'll take those all day. Well, actually, I'd only be able to take it 500 or 600 times, but still, bring it on.

In conclusion and confusion
I'm not a fan of cross trades. ESPECIALLY not T3 : T1. I will mostly ignore them.
I make some exceptions for FS members and small neighbors who probably need the help.

PS
I'd really love to tag one of my neighbors who is I know reads the forum. But I'll let it go.

well said @mucksterme i like what you wrote here and yes they should offer you that trade if they want you to take some of theres lol

 

[Mykan]

My struggle is that what ever happened to the argument that something is worth what a willing buyer and a willing seller say its worth? No one is forcing the other person to accept and as long as its 2 star I don't see how it's unfair.

This is still in play but you may have to find a fellowship that has a similar few. Like people different fellowships have different views. Some ban the trades out right, some enforce a different ratio, some don't care as long as its 2 star and not too often. I have even seen a fellowship let a person do 1 star trades regularly (no not a new player) as long as they didn't do it often or expect fellows to take them.

With all things fellowship related, you want to shop around to find one that is closely aligned to your style of play.

Here, 2 star trades are wrongly calibrated. Inno never fixed it, though.

I think we all agree that Inno's idea of fair trades is ridiculous

While most forum posters think this way it is not the case in-game. The method of fair trades is fair and is not broken, run the maths and its plan to see. The issue is players prioritise space not cost of production. Using a different balancing method it is broken, but on the cost to produce which other parts of the game are balanced on its fine.

Bottom of the barrel if you don't like cross tier trades don't take them

That's all good and well until you have 40+ pages of trades that are all cross tier and not what you want. If the trading system had a better interface such that I could better filter/find the trades I want this wouldn't be an issue. But while we are stuck with the current trader it is part of the reason fellowships prefer to limit or prevent these trades, it makes trading harder.

As someone else mentioned. If you are the type of person who thinks Inno's idea of fair is correct. And you think I should be glad to give you 16000 Steel for your 1000 Elixirs, why do I never see you offering 16000 planks for my 1000 Dust. I'll take those all day. Well, actually, I'd only be able to take it 500 or 600 times, but still, bring it on.

Its impossible to tell if someone does this as there are so many trades asking for cross tier such a person almost never has to post one as the trader is flooded with offers they can just accept. I assume people are cause surely those posting them would stop if their trades never ever got taken.

 

[mucksterme]

That's all good and well until you have 40+ pages of trades that are all cross tier and not what you want. If the trading system had a better interface such that I could better filter/find the trades I want this wouldn't be an issue.

YES

I assume people are cause surely those posting them would stop if their trades never ever got taken.

I keep telling myself that also.
But some people are stubborn.
In my neighborhood, I never see fair trades up for more than a few hours. Even when I post 50K or 100K trades they are usually gone by the next morning.
But I have one neighbor who insist on posting 16K : 1K trades and sometimes they are there for 3 or 4 days but it doesn't seem to bother him.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

You are not taking your neighbor's 16:1 trades?? I would take all of that and share it with my fellowship. I don't care what it is, after a few days, that is a heck of a lot of goods!

 

[mucksterme]

You are not taking your neighbor's 16:1 trades?? I would take all of that and share it with my fellowship. I don't care what it is, after a few days, that is a heck of a lot of goods!

Are you misunderstanding or trying to be funny?

This is what we are talking about

And you think I should be glad to give you 16000 Steel for your 1000 Elixirs,

Now if you seriously want to take those trades I'm sure we can find someone to post them near you

Seriously
If you were near me I'd gladly give you 1000 - 10000 - 100000 of any T3 for 16x that of any T1

 

[DeletedUser2959]

If you were near me I'd gladly give you 1000 - 10000 - 100000 of any T3 for 16x that of any T1

Oh hells yeah, but it's always the other way around. They want to wipe me out of T1 and T2. I love when they cheap out to get three stars too: 1005 T3 for 16000 T1. Yip-fricken-eeee.

 

[Calenmir]

I don't know how to post pictures, but if any of you think you have it bad - try dealing with 10 pages of 0 star trades, of which 3 pages are cross tier 0 star (the remaining 7 are same tier 0 star) . This goes on regularly in my trader - sometimes the mix is mostly cross tier 0 star - just depends. Usually by just 2 players, but now a 3rd has jumped in the mix. The trades expire and soon thereafter go up again. I cross fingers daily to be moved away. I won't pick them up any more (foolishly helped the one player once because he was small and I figured he needed the help - never again - it just encourages them to continue doing it). I even sent him a note explaining trading (given that, as I say above, 7 pages are same tier 0 star) but either was ignored or he/she can't see email.

I definitely need new neighbors. I know I could land in a similar situation, but at this point I'm willing to take that chance! If you can't move me - then move them. Either will work!

 

[DeletedUser2959]

When my FS is doing 10 chest runs I ask people to put up zero star trades for goods they need to cater, so it might be something like that...

 

[Calenmir]

That's an excuse for what I see on a regular basis and has been going on monthly. 7 days and they expire. 7 days and they expire. So if that is a game plan, it's failing.

 

[samidodamage]

@wtfever I do the same for tournaments, but those trades don't stay up for days. They *could* stay up 9 hrs or so if they put them up right after I leave in the morning, I have one of those 'zero time to even log in and take trades' days and none of the other larger cities comes on and takes them before I get home in the evening. I suspect part of it is the trades got taken when they were small, most players don't come to the forums or really delve into game mechanics (and don't want to). Trader allows it, they go for it.
I do remember when I first started trading confused me. Having never played an MMO game before, I didn't understand about the interactions between players. I was used to single player games where when you 'traded' goods, the goal was to make a profit. Since that wasn't working so well for me, I headed to the forums and joined a FS within the first week, lol!

 

[juniperknome]

i have two neighbors that 5 each elixir and 1 each tier 1 and 2. 14 pages daily of cross tier trades is annoying to say the least. swamping trade to point you are trading out tier 3 at 1-2 tier 2 and 2-3 to 1 at tier 1 is just silly

 

[MirandaZink]

It's not about the "value" it's about the time. If someone is offering Tier 3 for my Tier 1 it takes 30+ hours to produce those goods versus 6 hours of what they are offering. This is all fake stuff so honestly who cares . . . it's the time invested to make the quantity and cross tier trades are BAD DEALS no matter how many stars the game assigns to them. I never take them unless it's a newbie or someone in my FS is in a pickle.

 

[DeletedUser19723]

I was taken to this thread after doing a search for Cross-Tier Trading. I "didn't get it." Having just read through the 2 pages of comments, I have a better understanding of what it is. I also know what the stars mean now. So thank you to all who have posted.
I've been playing exactly one month and, quite frankly, trading can be rather intimidating. I've accepted about a dozen trades. I've only offered what quests have required. I've just joined a Fellowship that is, to me, good for where I am in the game. There is no pressure and no trading rules.
That being said, should I put up trades, even if small ones, daily to sort of keep my hand in it?
I'm in Chapter 2. I have lots of steel (boosted). I desperately need crystal and silk but can't produce scrolls (boosted) in large enough quantity to trade effectively with it. As I see it, my only options would be to offer trades that are cross-tier or be more willing to slow down my city's development. The later would be hard because I'm having so much fun building it.

 

[shimmerfly]

That being said, should I put up trades, even if small ones, daily to sort of keep my hand in it?

Yes keep posting trades that you can afford. You may have something someone else needs desperately.
The cross-tier trades are up to you. Maybe someone in your FS will gobble them up to help you out for now.
Glad your having fun .

 

[Mykan]

That being said, should I put up trades, even if small ones, daily to sort of keep my hand in it?

Absolutely post trades. Too many people make the mistake of expecting the goods they want to be in the trader when they want them, they then get upset when this doesn't happen. If you have built boosted only goods and of a decent amount (min. 40 squares of manufacturing for each type) you will find you have to trade just to balance your goods. By doing this you will naturally be needing to post and people in your fellowship will have options without you needing to do anything special.

I'm in Chapter 2. I have lots of steel (boosted). I desperately need crystal and silk but can't produce scrolls (boosted) in large enough quantity to trade effectively with it. As I see it, my only options would be to offer trades that are cross-tier or be more willing to slow down my city's development. The later would be hard because I'm having so much fun building it.

Couple tips:

• Build only your boosted factories. This is far more efficient in terms of cost and support in your city, plus you get more goods for less.
• Work towards a minimum of 40 squares of factory space. This is possible in chapter 2 but if your struggling start at 20 squares and move up from there. The space allocation never has to change as you progress, but that is up to you. What I mean by 40 squares is if your factory is 4 squares then build 10 of them, if it is 9 squares then build 5 (45 squares).

Getting a good production base will help you a lot in your town. There are numerous approaches and you will son figure out the best option for you.

 

[DeletedUser19723]

Absolutely post trades. Too many people make the mistake of expecting the goods they want to be in the trader when they want them, they then get upset when this doesn't happen. If you have built boosted only goods and of a decent amount (min. 40 squares of manufacturing for each type) you will find you have to trade just to balance your goods. By doing this you will naturally be needing to post and people in your fellowship will have options without you needing to do anything special.



Couple tips:

• Build only your boosted factories. This is far more efficient in terms of cost and support in your city, plus you get more goods for less.
• Work towards a minimum of 40 squares of factory space. This is possible in chapter 2 but if your struggling start at 20 squares and move up from there. The space allocation never has to change as you progress, but that is up to you. What I mean by 40 squares is if your factory is 4 squares then build 10 of them, if it is 9 squares then build 5 (45 squares).

Getting a good production base will help you a lot in your town. There are numerous approaches and you will son figure out the best option for you.

That's interesting, re: 20 squares/40 squares. Now I'll have to go see what kind of space I have left. It's a juggling act, isn't it? You need population to build/upgrade. Residences consume squares. Expansions are few and far between. I don't want to get stuck with no open space or I won't be able to move structures around.

Um....about only building factories that produce my boosted goods - - - I love all the buildings and their animations. I'd hate to not build them all. I can have one of each and not level it up too much??? This game is tough, when thinking about what I want to get out of it. Aesthetics is important to me, but I also want to have strong troops, progress in levels and power, etc.

A question I just thought of regarding selling buildings. If I sell a residence, do I have to "give back" the population? If yes, what if it has been used elsewhere?

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SherG26 you can have a low level non boosted just for the looks (I always liked the wiggly trees) but it's easier when your city is much larger as it hurts less as a %

For the residence, If selling a house brings you down to negative population then you won't be able to add more buildings or upgrades that require pop until you get it back up. Buildings will still function normally though.

 

[Mykan]

There is no wrong approach to town design as long as you stay true to yourself. We can give lots of advice based on certain things, like efficiency, but you still need to add your own flavour to the information.

Much later in the game you get to sentient goods, these use a different factory to your normal goods. So by the end of the next chapter to be implemented in the game you will have 6 of the 9 goods in your town with appropriate boosts. We are also often given quests in events that require goods production from each factory type, normally basic goods. So it is also common to see people with level 1 factories of their non-boosted type to cover these options.

Space is tight at the start but it does get easier. The most common "mistakes" is overbuilding factories or keeping old inefficient culture buildings. When you delete a building you get back the invested population and culture and some coins/supplies. However deleting a diamond building or wonder gets you nothing so be very careful selling things around those.

 

[SoggyShorts]

There is no wrong approach to town design as long as you stay true to yourself. We can give lots of advice based on certain things, like efficiency, but you still need to add your own flavour to the information.

Indeed, i for one, should almost have a disclaimer in my posts.
1. I mostly think in terms of effeciency, not aethetics.
2. I often forget about diamonds and therefore cities full of magic residences/workshops can have different results.
3. I assume that players want to progress through the tech tree at a moderate to fast pace.
4. I consider an "active" player to be one who logs in twice a day.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but basically, yeah I'm totally biased(but try to realize it)