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    Your Elvenar Team

Spire squad size calc - we need your data!

  • Thread starter Deleted User - 3932582
  • Start date

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
hondamike said:
what if everyone that could added the free expansion you get from completed provinces at the same time in the first week of chap 16 and tried to have no other activity for that week?
Click to expand...
As great as that would be, such coordinated activity is almost impossible to pull off in real life ;) Also, it is entirely possible that we will see same or very similar numbers just because it is from people in the same stage of the game.

One interesting factoid is that between you @hondamike and @Enevhar Aldarion you have extremely close setups at the moment. This week both of you have the same number of expansions (not sure if the same share of premium though), the same max squad sizes and I assume exactly the same end-game research due to that. The only difference between your two cities is number of AW levels (281 vs 175), and it is quite significantly different - which is good in this case.

If we assume fixed cost of extra AW levels (which is definitely not guaranteed now), this would point towards an extra AW level cost of about 6. This should be a pretty stable estimate as difference in AW levels is so high (unlike our usual weekly single-digit increments). So if AW level cost does not depend on AW type/size/etc (and it's a big if), then that's what it should be.

Now, if just the two of you could coordinate some similar experiments (like placing just a single expansion in a week), then we should be able to see if any of these changes depend on total AW levels / existing Spire squad size, as everything else in your cities is the same (so far).
 

Deleted User - 4646370

Guest
Remark : in my first city, adding 3 AW levels added only 11 to my Spire squad size, that is far less than 6 per level. One of these AW upgrades started before Spire starts last week, can it be the reason ?
 

Socrates28

Well-Known Member
Seventeenth fight - First fight on second level

15 / 35 / 478 / 167 / 3186 = 10051 / 10109 [2020-04-12]

I do not know if this will affect the calculations, but I am sure that one of my AW’s was upgrading when the Spire was generated. Perhaps the number should be 166.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
PaNonymeB said:
Remark : in my first city, adding 3 AW levels added only 11 to my Spire squad size, that is far less than 6 per level. One of these AW upgrades started before Spire starts last week, can it be the reason ?
Click to expand...
It can be, but generally on those small increments it is hard to make any definitive conclusions as all kids of rounding errors may creep up. That's why it is important to look at larger increments, or multiple observations over period of time.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
@MinMax Gamer Would it be helpful to include values for later encounters as well? Since the numbers are larger, would that help smooth out any potential rounding issues that could occur or is it not a significant issue?
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
qaccy said:
@MinMax Gamer Would it be helpful to include values for later encounters as well? Since the numbers are larger, would that help smooth out any potential rounding issues that could occur or is it not a significant issue?
Click to expand...
Not a significant issue. It was more important when figuring out catering amounts (these get rounded hard), but squad sizes move with the increments of 1, and looking at bigger numbers doesn't really provide much additional value. It's rounding in some internal calculations that is more of an issue (if it exists) as it can manifest in unexpected ways. But seeing numbers from later encounters won't really help with that.
 

DeletedUser5371

Guest
MinMax Gamer said:
As great as that would be, such coordinated activity is almost impossible to pull off in real life ;) Also, it is entirely possible that we will see same or very similar numbers just because it is from people in the same stage of the game.

One interesting factoid is that between you @hondamike and @Enevhar Aldarion you have extremely close setups at the moment. This week both of you have the same number of expansions (not sure if the same share of premium though), the same max squad sizes and I assume exactly the same end-game research due to that. The only difference between your two cities is number of AW levels (281 vs 175), and it is quite significantly different - which is good in this case.

If we assume fixed cost of extra AW levels (which is definitely not guaranteed now), this would point towards an extra AW level cost of about 6. This should be a pretty stable estimate as difference in AW levels is so high (unlike our usual weekly single-digit increments). So if AW level cost does not depend on AW type/size/etc (and it's a big if), then that's what it should be.

Now, if just the two of you could coordinate some similar experiments (like placing just a single expansion in a week), then we should be able to see if any of these changes depend on total AW levels / existing Spire squad size, as everything else in your cities is the same (so far).
Click to expand...
when the spire generated i was in the process of a heroes forge upgrade...since it will be at the rune level i was going to do the rune level and get 2 upgrades on just 1 AW till the next generation.
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
MinMax Gamer said:
Yep. We have eliminated completed provinces, but I figured it would be more confusing to change up the format midway.
Click to expand...

If completed provinces do not matter, what about scouted provinces overall, since each finished scout makes all future scouts slightly more expensive and slightly increases the difficulty of unscouted provinces? I have 18 more scouted than completed provinces.

Also, for this week, only my AW levels will be changing. I have upgraded two so far and should have at least one more by Sat.
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
PaNonymeB said:
Remark : in my first city, adding 3 AW levels added only 11 to my Spire squad size, that is far less than 6 per level. One of these AW upgrades started before Spire starts last week, can it be the reason ?
Click to expand...

Currently upgrading will not count until it is actually finished because you can cancel that upgrade any time you want.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Enevhar Aldarion said:
If completed provinces do not matter, what about scouted provinces overall, since each finished scout makes all future scouts slightly more expensive and slightly increases the difficulty of unscouted provinces? I have 18 more scouted than completed provinces.
Click to expand...
Nope, scouted provinces do not seem to matter either, see one of my posts above. Basically, I've seen a city doing a ton of scouting/partial and full province negotiation (for the event), and none of that changed the Spire squad size even by 1.
 

Deleted User - 4646370

Guest
Data from my family :
15/35/598/439/4140/149 ==> 5570/2474
12/25/280/67/2133/97 ==> 1166/518
12/26/288/53/2229/99(98 when Spire started ?) ==> 1163/517

Note : all numbers I give in this post had been taken just before I wrote this post, so about 1 day after Spire started. This means some values might actually be 1 or 2 less.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Enevhar Aldarion said:
Currently upgrading will not count until it is actually finished because you can cancel that upgrade any time you want.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. E.g. you do get ranking points as soon as you start your construction/upgrade requiring culture/pop. It will just be taken away if you cancel.
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
MinMax Gamer said:
Not necessarily. E.g. you do get ranking points as soon as you start your construction/upgrade requiring culture/pop. It will just be taken away if you cancel.
Click to expand...

Wonders do not give you the ranking points til they finish upgrading, even though other buildings do. Also, you can look at your AW levels in the Trader and see they do not increase til after the upgrade is complete.
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@MinMax Gamer What are the numbers we still need to be tracking for this?

Current Chapter/Man Hall level/ total AW levels/Squad Size/total expansions/Spire Squad Size in first battle/Enemy Squad Size in first battle?

Scouted or completed provinces are not needed?

Also, for anyone else starting chapter 16 when it goes live on Monday, make sure your numbers are from Sunday or before you are officially in chapter 16, because any changes to your numbers from chapter 16 will not apply til the next Spire that starts on Apr 26.
 
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