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Your Elvenar Team
Feedback Autumn Zodiac event
- Thread starter -Solaris-
- Start date
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Yep, when I got that one, I honestly could not remember it from Beta. I doubt it was different there, but still, I don't trust them.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
actualfantasy
Member
I was not happy to get that Quest {buy 27 kp] twice!
Not sure if it was my own head I wanted to hit the wall !!
Not sure if it was my own head I wanted to hit the wall !!
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Sadly, Its a lot more then just that one example. There was a ton of buy kp quests this event. Both unavoidable ones and 'or' ones
'Or'
14kp (quest 9)
20 (23)
20 (27)
20 (41)
27 (48)
Unavoidable
20 (14)
20 (51)
27 (57)
20 (62)
20 (72)
Thats 107 kp to 194 kp to buy all in one event. Thats outrageous.
JackofShadows
Active Member
As I said earlier, this is the sort of thing that will cause new players to rage-quit. A starting city (chapter I / II) cannot afford to spend the coin / goods to buy KP. If they try, they'll run themselves into the ground and won't be able to recover.
Don't forget there is at least one early story quest that has a new player buy KP as well. I hit that one BEFORE I hit event quest 14 - so I had already bought a few KP and thus sent the price of these subsequent purchases up. And if the new player happens to spend coin or goods to buy the KP for quest 9, they are even more screwed.
This was ill-conceived. It SHOULD scale with chapter level of the player - e.g. 3 KP at chapter 1 and 2, 5 KP at 3 and 4, etc. But I think the developers were going for a way to empty the coffers of the high-chapter players and did not think about newer players at all.
Don't forget there is at least one early story quest that has a new player buy KP as well. I hit that one BEFORE I hit event quest 14 - so I had already bought a few KP and thus sent the price of these subsequent purchases up. And if the new player happens to spend coin or goods to buy the KP for quest 9, they are even more screwed.
This was ill-conceived. It SHOULD scale with chapter level of the player - e.g. 3 KP at chapter 1 and 2, 5 KP at 3 and 4, etc. But I think the developers were going for a way to empty the coffers of the high-chapter players and did not think about newer players at all.
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
And they are still playing and still complaining!
I wonder whether they would still feel that way if they didn't read the forum because the biggest complaints come from players that play the game "interesting" way.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Some of us can like the game but still acknowledge that it has some serious problems. We voice them to try to get them fixed. - We get less... composed... about it after weve been talking about it forever and nothing gets done.
JackofShadows
Active Member
Had it not been for the player who offered me membership in an active fellowship, I would have quit. There's a thread about struggling smaller cities where I detail my frustrations (some of which involve the topic of this thread).And they are still playing and still complaining!
I wonder whether they would still feel that way if they didn't read the forum because the biggest complaints come from players that play the game "interesting" way.
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
I get that. I think that nothing gets done because it's actually good for most of the players to buy KPs.
This is a challenging game so brace yourself for more. Some things get even harder. If this game was easy, I would've quit long time ago. It really depends on what market Inno wants to target.
Pheryll
Set Designer
And a high producing mana building for the later chapters.
MaidenFair
Chef - Head Philologist
New players may not keep playing if they’re patronised every time they try to engage in the community; it’s a poor way to encourage participation in the forums or the game.And they are still playing and still complaining!
I wonder whether they would still feel that way if they didn't read the forum because the biggest complaints come from players that play the game "interesting" way.
As JackofShadows laid out clearly, It is too expensive for early cities to buy this much kp regardless of their playstyle. They literally cannot keep enough gold in their main hall at once to make this many purchases, and that’s without taking into account that they also need to be doing upgrades or scouting or research. Even my city early in Woodelves is using more than half its Main Hall capacity to buy 20 kp at this point, and I have only ever bought kp for event quests. I can recover that, but new players can’t do Spire, so they have no coin rains, and they hardly have any neighbours yet to visit for coins. New cities are already struggling to keep up with upgrades and scouting costs, based on their own accounts. This repeated quest is an event-stopper for new cities. (Which unfortunately may be Inno’s intent, based on comments in Q&As. :-/ )
This is simply not true. It may be neutral for many advanced players to buy kp, but it is not “good”. I already fill techs within a day or two of opening them and upgrade a wonder, on average, every 4 days. It does nothing for my city to buy more kp. (In fact, trading coins for kp is not only not helpful to me, it’s a hindrance as a caterer, because I could be buying goods at the wholesaler with my level 30 BTG instead and using those to go farther in tournament. However, that won’t be the case for most players.)
Your particular playstyle is unusual and apparently ignores roughly 75% of the possible gameplay. Sharing your experience is great, but blanket statements made based on your particular experience will not be applicable to other players in most cases. I also have an unusual playstyle, and therefore try to avoid making blanket statements from my perspective about what should or should not be the norm for other players. As I see it, there’s a big difference between offering possibilities “look at this cool new way I found to play! It makes these things easier!”, and being prescriptive “if you‘re not playing this way, you’re doing it wrong…!”.
Flashfyre
Well-Known Member
Has anyone considered that it may not have been intended for all players to complete, or even do well, in events until they have reached a, shall we say, self-sustaining position with their city builds? If there are quests that seem to be too difficult for a player to complete easily at their current chapter, it might be that that is by design; making events too easy at early levels will just make them even more so after reaching the middle chapters.
As a corollary, quests such as "Buy KP" and "Negotiate Map Encounters" aren't difficult or impossible to complete in and of themselves; instead, the difficulty comes from players running their cities in ways that, if not specifically discouraged, at least are not really supported. Should the game designers change them to appease the few players who find them a problem? Or should the players make adjustments to their play style, knowing they are going to run into these issues consistently? IMHO, it's not good practice to change a game's rules or methods just because some players have difficulty with the way the game is set up.
As a corollary, quests such as "Buy KP" and "Negotiate Map Encounters" aren't difficult or impossible to complete in and of themselves; instead, the difficulty comes from players running their cities in ways that, if not specifically discouraged, at least are not really supported. Should the game designers change them to appease the few players who find them a problem? Or should the players make adjustments to their play style, knowing they are going to run into these issues consistently? IMHO, it's not good practice to change a game's rules or methods just because some players have difficulty with the way the game is set up.
Iyapo
Personal Conductor
I have missed the Q&As but I don't think chapter 1-3 cities are supposed to be able to complete the events. There are too many Quests that they absolutely can not do.
Buy KP umpteen times is one.
Gain Relics without enough resources or troops to clear provinces and without the MA or the resources to use the MA once you get it.
Gain CCs, spells, or spell fragments without the MA, only available through story line quests rewards.
Clear province/Tournament/Spire Encounters, no tournament or spire and limited resources.
No cauldron.
It is not just a matter of scaling it to the chapters, no amount of scaling will fix these.
@JackofShadows If it helps at all, I am running a chapter 5 city through the event just fine. A few difficulties and bumps but definitely doable.
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Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
First off, if youre putting out an event that lowwer chapter players can not finish, by design, and that higher chapter players may not be able to finish, by design.... then you just failed in creating a quality event for your player base. That simple.
More specifically, quests like 'world map encounters' have an inherently flawed issue for any city over scouted, parked, or finished the last chapter. Now while one can argue over parked cities... theres pretty much nothing in game that warns you again over scouting. In fact for many newer and intermediate players, they go balls out on it because they think they need the extra prov expansions from them. The game doesnt rly explain the concept of smaller compact cities, making specific choice with there available room and all that very clear. When i started this game, it told us nothing of the sort. It showed how to build buildings and upgrade them. Ultra basics. But that was it. The rest was just left to figure out on your own. And while that can be a interesting thing to do, you cant.. shouldnt.. have a system designed to punish players that might not have figured it out so quickly. -- And cities at the end of the chapters not only face the over scouting issue as well, but they have 2-5 day scout times on top of it.
Id also like to be perfectly clear about one point i continually make.
A while back, there were some quests that were causing so much problems, so much outrage form the player base, that inno actually did remove them completely. And sometimes near completely (As were seeing 'scout a prov/finish a prov' sneak its way back in.)
Im not asking for quests like world map encounters or buy kp to be removed completely. Im asking for a legit OR option. Thats all.
That single thing, if done right, solves all or nearly all the issues with these quests. In fact, for a short while, inno actually did that. And it worked beautifully. So naturally they changed it. Which is what infuriates us even more.
For all the more problematic quests, you give a legit less problematic OR option. And let the player chose which to do. Very simple. But i have to spell that out because we somehow went from 'fight/negotiate x world map encounters' (single quest) being a real problem for some, to inno making it 'fight x world map encounters' OR 'Negotiate x world map encounters'. THATS NOT AN OR. Thats the same damn thing! Its nothing more then a slap in the face to do that. You dont make the OR option the same damn thing! Hell, they could have at least make it world map encounter OR tourny/spire. Even that would have been slightly better then what they did. (Tho still irritating because they actually have a single quest 'solve x world map/tourney/spire encounters'.
They dont need to remove more quests... they dont need to inherently change the game.. just give a legit OR option.. and all these issues go away. Its that damn simple. Which is part of why its so infuriating to some of us.
Silly Bubbles
You cant pop them all
New players may not keep playing if they’re patronised every time they try to engage in the community; it’s a poor way to encourage participation in the forums or the game.
And back to personal attacks. I think it's time for me to have a break.
JackofShadows
Active Member
If it is the intent of the Inno developers that cities below a certain level are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO complete the event... if the event is DESIGNED with this in mind, then the obvious - to my mind - solution is to simply not make the quest available to cities that have not reached that arbitrary point.
Oh, and it's garbage design decision in my not-so-humble.
Oh, and it's garbage design decision in my not-so-humble.
Iyapo
Personal Conductor
I would throw three kinds of fits if Inno decided to lock new cities completely out of the events. There are really good prizes in the events and new cities can collect hundreds of currency by picking up event currency around the city and collecting daily event currency. Allowing them to grab a bunch of free loot from event chests, some of which is super useful for them. I think locking new cities out of the event until chapter "X" would be punitive.