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[Iyapo]

'fight x world map encounters' OR 'Negotiate x world map encounters'. THATS NOT AN OR. Thats the same damn thing

As a catering city that is a legit less problematic OR to me.

 

[Dominionofgod]

First off, if youre putting out an event that lowwer chapter players can not finish, by design, and that higher chapter players may not be able to finish, by design.... then you just failed in creating a quality event for your player base. That simple.

More specifically, quests like 'world map encounters' have an inherently flawed issue for any city over scouted, parked, or finished the last chapter. Now while one can argue over parked cities... theres pretty much nothing in game that warns you again over scouting. In fact for many newer and intermediate players, they go balls out on it because they think they need the extra prov expansions from them. The game doesnt rly explain the concept of smaller compact cities, making specific choice with there available room and all that very clear. When i started this game, it told us nothing of the sort. It showed how to build buildings and upgrade them. Ultra basics. But that was it. The rest was just left to figure out on your own. And while that can be a interesting thing to do, you cant.. shouldnt.. have a system designed to punish players that might not have figured it out so quickly. -- And cities at the end of the chapters not only face the over scouting issue as well, but they have 2-5 day scout times on top of it.

Id also like to be perfectly clear about one point i continually make.
A while back, there were some quests that were causing so much problems, so much outrage form the player base, that inno actually did remove them completely. And sometimes near completely (As were seeing 'scout a prov/finish a prov' sneak its way back in.)
Im not asking for quests like world map encounters or buy kp to be removed completely. Im asking for a legit OR option. Thats all.
That single thing, if done right, solves all or nearly all the issues with these quests. In fact, for a short while, inno actually did that. And it worked beautifully. So naturally they changed it. Which is what infuriates us even more.
For all the more problematic quests, you give a legit less problematic OR option. And let the player chose which to do. Very simple. But i have to spell that out because we somehow went from 'fight/negotiate x world map encounters' (single quest) being a real problem for some, to inno making it 'fight x world map encounters' OR 'Negotiate x world map encounters'. THATS NOT AN OR. Thats the same damn thing! Its nothing more then a slap in the face to do that. You dont make the OR option the same damn thing! Hell, they could have at least make it world map encounter OR tourny/spire. Even that would have been slightly better then what they did. (Tho still irritating because they actually have a single quest 'solve x world map/tourney/spire encounters'.

They dont need to remove more quests... they dont need to inherently change the game.. just give a legit OR option.. and all these issues go away. Its that damn simple. Which is part of why its so infuriating to some of us.

As a catering city that is a legit less problematic OR to me.

it is when they take a single quest of 'fight/negotiate world map encounters' and make it two 'fight world map enc' OR 'negotiate world map encounters'. Its the same damn thing.
And the issue is the 'world map enc' part; as some do not have extra of those available. I could care less about the whole fight vs negotiate aspect. Leaving it as fight/negotiate takes care of both for that part. No problem there. Its the world map enc.

 

[Iyapo]

It used to be "fight x# of world map encounters". No OR. I like that there is an or and it is not the same thing. You are only looking at what is problematic to a specific subset of players and you are offering up solutions that are problematic to other subsets of players.

Nothing is going to fit us all.

 

[Sprite1313]

I would throw three kinds of fits if Inno decided to lock new cities completely out of the events. There are really good prizes in the events and new cities can collect hundreds of currency by picking up event currency around the city and collecting daily event currency. Allowing them to grab a bunch of free loot from event chests, some of which is super useful for them. I think locking new cities out of the event until chapter "X" would be punitive.

I cannot like this enough times.

They already scale some of the quests for city chapter, why not more of them? I personally don’t care about the buy KP quests, because I already buy a ton every day. But I will only say that is true for me. Where buying 20KP is not going to kill my coffers, for a chapter 2 city that is INSANE. Maybe “buy 2 KP” would be more sustainable. It gets the concept, but doesn’t decimate their city.

 

[Dominionofgod]

It used to be "fight x# of world map encounters". No OR.

They have had several variations over the years.

I like that there is an or and it is not the same thing.

Yes. 'Fight or negotiate x amount of world map enc' (sinlge quest) is the same thing as 'fight x world map enc' OR ' negotiate x world map enc.'
Maybe a small technicallity of being able to mix and match on the single quest. But thats the only difference.

 

[Alram]

I was in ch2 for my first event way back in Oct/Nov 2020. I think I made it to quest 11. I was pretty happy with all the goodies I won just using the free daily and city drop currency.
I was ch 3/4 for my second event and I was able to complete all the quests.

 

[Iyapo]

fight x world map enc' OR ' negotiate x world map enc.'

"Fight x world map encounters" is not the same as "Negotiate x world map encounters".
When they phrase it "Fight or Negotiate x world map encounters" it is already two options rolled into 1. Like "Solve x Province, Spire, or Tournament Encounters" is three options rolled into one.

 

[Dominionofgod]

"Fight x world map encounters" is not the same as "Negotiate x world map encounters".

Correct.
Im not saying fighting is the same as negotiating. Im saying the over all quest is the same.
'Fight or negotiate x world map encounters' (one single quest)
is the same quest as
'fight world map encounters' OR 'negotiate world map encounters' (one quest with an 'or' option)

When they phrase it "Fight or Negotiate x world map encounters" it is already two options rolled into 1

Partially true.
There is two aspects to that quest. First is the fight vs negotiate. Second is the world map. BOTH need to be looked at.
Having it be 'fight or negotiate' takes care of both play styles. Yes. Problem solved for part one.
Part two: world map encounters. Players over scouted, parked, or at the end game, simple do not have extra world map encounters available.
Over scouted players shouldnt be using more WM encounters. Many times, they flat out CANT. As they start costing resources that players might not have yet. Like orcs and mana and w/e might show up later.
Or, if they do have some possibly available, it takes an immense amount of time to scout one. I know players that have a 2-5 day scout time.

So its the WORLD MAP ENCOUNTER only part that is the problem.
So when inno changes the quest to 'fight world map' OR 'negotiate world map' ... its irrelevent to those that can not do world map encounters. Fighting and negotiating doesnt matter if they have no encounters available to do so on.

 

[MaidenFair]

And back to personal attacks. I think it's time for me to have a break.

My intent was to address the apparent tone of your comments, not make a personal attack; however, I should have found a more patient way to express my thoughts. Please accept my apologies for any distress I have caused you, and I hope you will be able to return and enjoy the forums shortly.

 

[Iyapo]

Players over scouted, parked, or at the end game, simple do not have extra world map encounters available.

The only players who can not do these quests are players below chapter 8 with 220 provinces cleared. Players that are over scouted or parked above that line can do these quest they just don't want to spend speed ups on them or wait 5 days. I get that. Do you get that changing these quests like they did here:

- Donate to Magic Academy (OR) Scout Provinces replaced with Buy Knowledge Points.
- Donate to Magic Academy (OR) Scout Provinces replaced with Gain Relics.
- Donate to Magic Academy (OR) Scout Provinces replaced with Use a Recruit Units Instant.

Completely screws over ALL new players in chapters 1-4? This was changed and the change made one group happy at the expense of another group.

Edit: I have never heard of a Mana Wall or any other kind of Wall(other than The Orc Wall) if such a thing has been hit please post links.

 

[crackie]

But I think the developers were going for a way to empty the coffers of the high-chapter players and did not think about newer players at all.

They prob care more about new players than end-gamers. The latter has nothing really new to spend money or diamonds on. New players probably bring in way more revenue. My small city is a diamond pit because I have artifacts galore to buy, but I can’t really think of anything the game introduces that my bigger cities critically need to do what it needs to do and they aren’t even end game yet.

I don’t think it’s a big deal if early chapter players can’t finish. The game at least now lets you collect artifacts or craft them later, which wasn’t always the case. Plus, events have a set start and end date. Even an older city that comes back from vacation or hiatus isn’t guaranteed to finish if they showed up last minute. Besides, you eventually won’t have room to put them all, especially if you double up or more on the ones you really like.

It also took me awhile to even figure out the concept of evolve buildings when I first started out and I definitely didn’t finish the quest line. More like, oh yay, I won a massive ugly dead tree. I’m not putting this heinous thing out. What a terrible prize! It didn’t stop or prevent me from doing anything.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Do you get that changing these quests like they did here:
Completely screws over ALL new players in chapters 1-4? This was changed and the change made one group happy at the expense of another group.

side note first; i dont think that made anyone happy. Because the Donation window is only avialable for a short time AFTER you use the cauldron. No other way to access it. You must uses its once a week effect first. That is an inherent flaw imo. That donation window should always be accessible in its own tab.

Secondly, more to the point, Your argument is valid. That is why iv stressed the need for LEGIT 'or' options.
'Or' options are requested on the quests that can be problematic for some players. But if inno adds a second problematic quest as the 'or' option... then that is not helpful. - If you replace a problem with another problem... you still have a problem. - And as i mentioned above, the donate to MA is a problem because of its design. (Not to mention potential early chapter issues.)
So its not that that the 'OR' idea is bad... it was jsut horribly implemented. Or to be more accurate, it was implemented pretty well, and then they changed it to be more problematic.
The problematic quests need a non-problematic 'OR' option. And then players can do which ever one is best for them.
No one, new player to old player, should have quests that are or are close to uncompletable for them. (i mean, i can understand if its day 2 for someone here and there having issues... but past that...)

Also be clear on one other fact. The introduction of the "OR' option was fully Innos doing. That was there solution to all the complaints they were getting. And its a good idea. They are just doing it wrong. And that makes some ppl even more angry then they were at the start. - It sucks if your boss ignores you... its a lot worse if he walks up to you and pisses on your shoes and then walks away, ignoring you.

 

[getmomo]

And back to personal attacks. I think it's time for me to have a break.

Where in that post were you attacked? Criticism is not a personal attack.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

My intent was to address the apparent tone of your comments, not make a personal attack; however, I should have found a more patient way to express my thoughts. Please accept my apologies for any distress I have caused you, and I hope you will be able to return and enjoy the forums shortly.

Thank you for your apology. It's time for me to focus on the happy world outside of this forum where players share their strategies and help each other to enjoy this great game without worrying whether they upset anyone. Anger only breeds more anger and that doesn't make anyone a better person including me.

 

[Dhurrin]

How many players out of thousands do you think have the same opinion? I can see some comments. Some are from the same people every event and some are new. Most of the new ones don't realise that buying KPs is actually good for them. And I think that Inno knows better what is good for Inno.

Quite a few actually.
I am of the same mind. And I know more players who feel the same way. And players who just will skip this event because of it, or only partially do it.
As @Dominionofgod stated; if you start pissing off your playerbase you are doing something wrong. If a lot of people are complaining, there is something wrong. There are enough people complaining about it on the forums, in different countries btw. And the ones making it to the forum are only a tiny percentage of the players.
Btw, have you seen ANY, I really mean any players on any server come on and make a statement about how much they like these types of mandatory quests?

You seem to have some idealized conception of Inno. But Inno has quite a record of pissing off the Elvenar players. But the whole point comes down to the simple fact that what ATTRACTS players is good for Inno, what chases them away or pisses them off is not.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Todays quest is the perfect example of how it SHOULD always be done. Im not bitching for the sake of bitchin and ill give credit when its due. This is what it should be, on two separate fronts at once none the less.
The top portion includes world map enc, tourney enc, spire enc, fighting AND/or negotiating. A whole lot of options built into one single quest. Credit.
The second one (with an 'or') has a legit, unrelated, non problematic second 'or' option. As it should. Credit.

That is how they all should have been.
Not this crap (below pic)

So its not like im even asking inno to change the whole system around. They already have and (only sometimes) use the methods to fix this problem. When it should be always. The fact that they knowingly continue to add versions that serve only to piss ppl off deeply concerns me.


Edit: In fact. it makes me so happy to see it being done right for once, that i wont even question why they decided to order it so that this quest shows up on the day then both tourney and spire are closed. .. Ill glady wait until they open up again.

 

[BrinDarby]

You seem to have some idealized conception of Inno. But Inno has quite a record of pissing off the Elvenar players. But the whole point comes down to the simple fact that what ATTRACTS players is good for Inno, what chases them away or pisses them off is not.

The fact that they knowingly continue to add versions that serve only to piss ppl off deeply concerns me.

shocking, isn't it ??

 

[Smooper]

I too find there are a couple squeaky wheels which make the forum very hard to read. If the forum was a quest then reading these posts is like "Buy 20 KP". You don't need to complete every event or anything at all to have fun playing this game. There are thousands of players who don't do well in tournaments, don't complete the events, have never reached the top of the spire and guess what...they still enjoy the game. One of my fellowships is full of them. I do the recruiting because none of them know what ElvenStats is (indispensible for me, unlike this event). I look at cities full of meandering roads and half evolved buildings but these people don't care. The game is hard (see posts about rearranging your city) get used to it and enjoy it for what it is. That's it. Now hopefully I can go back to reading posts about what buildings are great or how to do something rather than this.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I too find there are a couple squeaky wheels which make the forum very hard to read. If the forum was a quest then reading these posts is like "Buy 20 KP". You don't need to complete every event or anything at all to have fun playing this game. There are thousands of players who don't do well in tournaments, don't complete the events, have never reached the top of the spire and guess what...they still enjoy the game. One of my fellowships is full of them. I do the recruiting because none of them know what ElvenStats is (indispensible for me, unlike this event). I look at cities full of meandering roads and half evolved buildings but these people don't care. The game is hard (see posts about rearranging your city) get used to it and enjoy it for what it is. That's it. Now hopefully I can go back to reading posts about what buildings are great or how to do something rather than this.

In a few months more, this will not matter, since it seems, according to announcements so far on other forums, that all the Elvenar forums will be getting shut down in favor of Discord. I hate Discord, so I guess I will get all my info from Facebook or not at all.

 

[Dhurrin]

In a few months more, this will not matter, since it seems, according to announcements so far on other forums, that all the Elvenar forums will be getting shut down in favor of Discord. I hate Discord, so I guess I will get all my info from Facebook or not at all.

Same here. I do not have a Discord account and don't really enjoy being forced to have one in order to be able to access the forum info.
As for FB; I absolutely HATE FB. I have an account there, specifically created for the elvenar FS. But I don't like it.