Fellowship-based Tournaments

[DeletedUser68]

@Missanthropy will the US forums have something similar to what @Marindor is doing with the ideas & suggestions forum in Beta?

TLDR: No. Beta attracts most of the folks who are interested in bug reports and feature enhancements.

You may recall that Marindor was a US forum moderator at one point.and he was promoted to Beta, in part, because he was interested in that aspect of the game. He has access to the internal JIRAs that the developers use to track bugs.

The reality is that most of the folks who are interested in improving the game participate in BOTH forums, so there would be a lot of duplication. For bug reports, in particular Beta is a more effective platform for testing the recent changes, as very few of the folks in Beta are playing catchup.

In the production worlds and forums we're more effective when we concentrate on how to play the game that we have, and especially so when we offer discussions that focus on newer players who are still learning the ropes. That said we do quite a bit of MOANING when we're getting swamped with Support Tickets and related posts in the forum.

 

[Buttrflwr]

TLDR:
For bug reports, in particular Beta is a more effective platform for testing the recent changes, as very few of the folks in Beta are playing catchup.

Actually, to properly test changes, you need people playing at ALL stages of the game, to get an accurate view of the game as a whole. If you only have advanced players, then you lose the functionality of a beta testing platform. There will be glitches, bugs and BAD decisions (the former wholesaler comes to mind) that affect lower levels that you won't catch. So, don't knock us little Beta players.

 

[SoggyShorts]

No. Beta attracts most of the folks who are interested in bug reports and feature enhancements.

Does this mean we shouldn't bother post in the ideas and suggestions forum here?
This server has 395 threads in the ideas section, and not all of them have equivalents on Beta.
If a player that is not on the Beta forums posts a good idea here, should we re-post it on Beta for them?(with permission ofc)

I understand the basic idea that we should discuss theory there and gameplay here, but Beta only has 11,000 players compared to US live having 200,000+ They are bound to think of some things that we missed.

 

[DeletedUser3942]

Does this mean we shouldn't bother post in the ideas and suggestions forum here?
This server has 395 threads in the ideas section, and not all of them have equivalents on Beta.
If a player that is not on the Beta forums posts a good idea here, should we re-post it on Beta for them?(with permission ofc)

I understand the basic idea that we should discuss theory there and gameplay here, but Beta only has 11,000 players compared to US live having 200,000+ They are bound to think of some things that we missed.

I'd really love to hear an answer to that - even more so since the writing permission at beta forum is tied to an account on beta... if you do not play on beta you can't contribute to the forum there, right? or do I miss something?
and if it is like Soggy points out - what's the benefit of even having a suggestions and idea section here? At least how it is run at the moment.
I'd suggest then to add a poll for popular ideas to go to Beta for evaluation or something of that kind...

 

[DeletedUser2870]

TP costs "under review" - for real, where or sarcasm?

Noted all tourney scores of all players from #1 FS on Felyndral. Top scorer is a little over 9k points. The remaining FS combined = 20k. Three check points cleared after 2 days. With 1 maybe 2 rounds remaining depending on when they can play, maybe see them getting checkpoint 5 cleared and I highly doubt checkpoint 6 will get cleared. 3 of their member haven't done anything to date.

Player ranked #2 on Felyndral is not even at 5k after 2 days. Seeing how the other worlds #1 ranking players were not even close to Felyndrals, the overall objective by the developers is a big flop (getting the blue print). Has it really increased participation, I'm not sure. Never tracked FS member tourney progress to see if they were doing them or not.

I noticed we had more activity during this tourney. But I wonder if it will last.
In all 3 worlds Im still active in I am the top scorer in the tourney stats, even though Im not always the topranked player.
A lot of people started enthousiastically, then reconsidered when they noticed the checkpoints reset to 0 everytime. In my main city, we can PERHAPS clear the 20k point, but thats about it. And there I added almost 15% of the total score, but losses are so huge Im not going to do that every tourny.

Once again, the devs have been completely wrong about the impact here. The fact that the endgoal for all practical purposes cannot be reached already has caused several players to remark they wont put in so much effort next time since it is no use.
It doesnt have to be easy, striving is good and will give a sense of satisfaction. But by once again making something impossible they are doing more harm then good.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

Everyone in the FS was really excited and looking forward to this change in the Tournaments,
19 of 24 actually participated, that's about 12 more than normally play in Tournies.

Sadly the result was thought to be an Epic Failure and everyone quit playing after the 3rd chest and is not looking forward to ever joining in on the
Tournament again.
1. You made fighting much harder then it was before, the losses are huge and for what? Presumed junk rewards and unachievable goals!
2. The rewards are really on the pitiful side.
Chest 1 - three spells: can get that from giving aid!
Chest 2 - 5 KP and 2 Relic: Bid deal, anyone can get that by clearing a province
Chest 3 - 1 Rune: Again, it's not a big deal considering how many goods/supplies or units your have to go through to get it. Frankly, many players could care less about the Runes because we without fail get junk runes, 'never' something actually needed. Tome of Secrets rune shows up over and over and over and that's a failed building that most people don't want.
Chest 4 - 10KP and 3 Relic: This is why everyone stopped at Chest 3! What's so special about that when we can get 6+6 for completing one province?
There is no need to continue wasting units/goods/supplies for a bad reward and again, unachievable goals!

The point levels are ridiculous, no maybe insane is a better word and none of the players have any interest in continuing this or any other
Tournament. This is seen as another case of take something players liked and totally mess it up so that nobody wants anything to do with it.
How can the Devs possibly be this out of touch with the players?

My second fellowship quit playing after Chest 2, everyone lost interest.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Chest 4 - 10KP and 3 Relic: This is why everyone stopped at Chest 3! What's so special about that when we can get 6+6 for completing one province?

@princeavery: You are dead on with your assessment! Same is happening within my fellowship [FS]. For the first FS tournament there is great excitement and participation, but that is waning quickly now that the point requirement is "insane" to open chest 5! A couple of our fellowship members are within the top 20 players and still find it impossible to get beyond the crazy point requirement to continue....and as you stated, it's not worth it for the meager prizes.

I personally participate a LOT in tournaments because I want want the kp, runes, ranking points and some relics [always good for making spells], and I get plenty of all of these without opening the chest, so what's the point of opening chests. The spells in the first chest are cool and easy to get, so why not open that one since is "fairly" unique, but all the others are not worth it. I have enough motivation to continue participating in the tournaments for myself, and from here on; if it helps to contribute to our fellowship just by chance, then so be it. I'm just not motivated to participate to help the FS specifically, and my group members feel the same way. So bringing the tournaments from the neighborhood fight is NOT successful. To me it's all the same whether it is FS based or neighborhood based.

The Beta folks clearly told the developers these issues, but it fell on deaf ears and they [InnoGame] STILL went live with it just after ONLY a week of testing and trial! No way will any of our conversation here reach them [InnoGame] if they won't listen to Beta!

 

[Istaru]

So much worrying in this thread.
1. The 40 KP spent - kinda minor imo, you paid 40 KP to have access to the tournaments for how many weeks(months?) early
2. People may resent non-contributing FS members - maybe, but how many check points are you reaching with the help of your inactive gold mines right now?
3. Big players will benefit more - I'm not so sure, don't players with max boost have LESS incentive to do tournaments than those who need the relics?
4. Top FS will be elitist - Aren't they kinda already? I mean will a new player today ever be in the #1 FS without opening their wallet really wide?

Now the new system is in place and I am finding they have set the requirements for the checkpoints much higher for a FS than they did for neighbours. Even with only 1 neighbour helping I completed more Checkpoints on my my own in the old system then I have in this FS based tournament. This is really frustrating to see how much effort and resources I put in compared to others. And I can't blame them for not doing much either, because the cost of resolving encounters has gotten so much higher than in the previous system. This is seriously gutting my resources. A lot of newer players simply don't have those resources to spend, and for those who do have the resources, if is is a non-boosted tournament, why would they want to waste them?

 

[DeletedUser4738]

I see this as a FS harmony killer. In every FS there are varying degrees of players and their online time/commitment. If a FS reaches the 8th checkpoint and a couple of members really wanted the 10th only to find that those 2 did 85% of the work it will alienate members of the FS.

I honestly don't like the idea of wanting rewards but having to put in the time/effort/resources to pull dead weight. Or we will start to get players being booted from FSs just because they aren't military dynamos.

Imo, it's a great idea in theory and will be terrible in practice.

While I agree in some part with this, it's also a great way to help give a boost up to newer players, and get them involved in tournaments. We are still getting individual rewards as well.

 

[SoggyShorts]

A lot of newer players simply don't have those resources to spend, and for those who do have the resources, if is is a non-boosted tournament, why would they want to waste them?

Agreed, when you compare doing your non-boosted tournament vs clearing on the world map it makes very little sense with the current reward structure.

 

[Mykan]

It will be most interesting to see what happens in the next tournament. This tournament looks to have had a lot of hype adding to peoples desire to compete in the tournaments. The next one I expect will have a very different participation level due to the inability to unlock the rewards.

Some of my fellowships have higher level players donating goods to lower level players so they can go further in the tournaments and access the rewards. While this is cheap and easy the era 1 and 2 players are still very hamstrung on supply costs as supplies can't be traded.

 

[Istaru]

It will be most interesting to see what happens in the next tournament. This tournament looks to have had a lot of hype adding to peoples desire to compete in the tournaments. The next one I expect will have a very different participation level due to the inability to unlock the rewards.

Some of my fellowships have higher level players donating goods to lower level players so they can go further in the tournaments and access the rewards. While this is cheap and easy the era 1 and 2 players are still very hamstrung on supply costs as supplies can't be traded.

I've seen people quit already because of the added stress. It's just made the game less fun. I was hoping it would go the other way, making it part of the FS, but they increased the cost of resolving each round as well, and the rewards for the chests aren't very good, for the costs.

 

[Mykan]

they increased the cost of resolving each round as well, and the rewards for the chests aren't very good, for the costs.

I have not noticed this on any town. Is this a rumour or does someone have some figures on it?
I have towns at multiple eras and cost wise everything appears the same as pre-update. I don't track the costs so if someone does it would be interesting to hear their comments.

 

[DeletedUser3942]

I don't track the costs so if someone does it would be interesting to hear their comments.

Mykan I do track and I did not notice an increase either...

 

[Istaru]

I have not noticed this on any town. Is this a rumour or does someone have some figures on it?
I have towns at multiple eras and cost wise everything appears the same as pre-update. I don't track the costs so if someone does it would be interesting to hear their comments.

I just finished doing 6 rounds on 3 or more provinces in 4 cities, and I definitely noticed higher costs in the later rounds, than previously. The early rounds seem the same, but the later ones are really steep compared to the previous system. For what it's worth, I cater, I don't fight. Maybe fighting is still the same.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I definitely noticed higher costs in the later rounds, than previously.

Did you do any scouting or clearing on the world map between tournaments? There is a correlation between catering costs and provinces explored/cleared, and it does not seem to be linear, so by just exploring 1 more province you can see a significant jump in prices.

I've seen people quit already because of the added stress. It's just made the game less fun.

I find it very strange if a player quits after a couple days because they don't like a change. My guess is they were on the way out anyways.[/USER]

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Im not sure about the higher costs. It may seem so, but that may seem so because I put in much more effort than before.
However, it also was the last time. Next and following tourneys I ll just go back and do the number of provinces and levels I used to do.

- I dont need more boosted relics since Im maxed on all, so they dont do any good.
- I dont need more non-boosted relics than I normally gain from the tourneys because I dont use many spells, and I already have a nice supply of spells ready.
- The additional FS rewards suck. Sorry, but there really is no other word for the so-called rewards at the checkpoints. Even more so considering the ridiculous amount of effort that has to be spent getting there.
- The later checkpoints are unreachable. This means yet another impossibility added into the game. Hugely depressing and frustrating for many players.

In 2 of my FSs we have been debating, but something that many people looked forward to has proven to be a MAJOR disappointment. This has a very negative effect on players and their involvement in the game.

Inno's devteam obviously has no clue of the impact of their choices and has a long record of completely ignoring player feedback, from both live servers and betaserver.
BIG THUMBSDOWN

edit:
More discussion in my FSs. Since apparently innogames is not paying attention to the forums Ive decided to just file a ticket. In 2 of my fellowships most members are going to do the same.
Perhaps that will get more attention to the fact they are not exactly making the game more fun for the players.
Anyone else is free to do...perhaps a few hundred tickets on the same subject will make someone sit up and take notice.

 

[DeletedUser6085]

Just make sure it's actually "not easy" and not "impossible". Feeling like top fellowships are favored more in this....advanced players will do tournaments easily and everyone else will struggle.

I think Innogames failed to read this comment. It would seem to be impossible to obtain, even from highest level fellowships. The smaller ranked fellowships haven't got a chance at it. Personally, in Winyandor, I will eventually replace all my magical residences with regular ones since I will not be able to upgrade them. I think this is more than ridiculous.

 

[Istaru]

Did you do any scouting or clearing on the world map between tournaments? There is a correlation between catering costs and provinces explored/cleared, and it does not seem to be linear, so by just exploring 1 more province you can see a significant jump in prices.[/USER]

I thought the costs of provinces previously explored were fixed at that cost, so the inner most provinces are the cheapest to solve, etc. Places where I had scouted ahead of the research tree, are naturally more costly. I never scout ahead any more because of this, and I only do at most 4 or 5 provinces in a tournament, because it gets too expensive otherwise. Maybe I went further on a non-boosted tournament than I have before, and that's why I'm seeing higher costs. At any rate, I won't make that mistake again. I'll go back to doing only one or two provinces for 4 rounds on non-boosted. Since the checkpoint rewards are so paltry, there's no point in trying for them.

As to my friend, he was already discouraged by the changes to battling, and now this. It was the straw that broke the camels back. But ever since they changed the battling, more and more people have become inactive and stopped playing. It's becoming a graveyard of abandoned towns out there. I'm thinking of cutting way back myself.

This is off topic, but I was already discouraged because I put in a ton of effort on that winter event (thanks for the guide!), and then I was unable to get that final prize, even though I did every single quest. I did not even get the offer to buy globes that others got. Those quests to buy KP forced me to raise the price of KP to astronomical levels. The quests to get more relics and scout provinces forced me to scout ahead of the research tree, even though they said they did not want us to do that because we are expanding too fast. I don't think the developers care if the game is fun anymore.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I thought the costs of provinces previously explored were fixed at that cost

This is true, but that is completely separate from tournament catering costs, which keep going up the further you explore.
Someone with 170 provinces cleared on the world map will pay far more to cater 3 provinces 5 times than someone with 40 provinces explored.

This is off topic, but I was already discouraged because I put in a ton of effort on that winter event (thanks for the guide!), and then I was unable to get that final prize, even though I did every single quest.

Yeah, it wasn't ideal that the last prize was virtually unwinnable with just effort, but the other prizes were better than even premium culture buildings, so I feel like Inno gave me 16-19 diamond culture buildings for free. All 3 of my accounts have zero normal culture buildings now. When seen from that perspective it was pretty generous.