.

[DeletedUser61]

Something needs to be done for these players, so they can PLAY.

Starting an additional city is the obvious response. Simply wait for the game to catch up with the provinces that you got on the cheap in your "too difficult now" city, which you developed on the cheap.

in my view, those kinds of fights you could fight blindfolded and win easily

Which is precisely why the new battle system is being implemented, as well as the related caps on negotiation.

I've been playing City Builders for 20 years, and in EVERY city builder game that I've ever played a major dynamic is that folks find ways to distort the intended envelope, and then they scream and holler when the developer yank on the reins and pull them up short.

There will always be folks who rush into the various box canyons, and then whinge about being trapped. To be fair, those players MAY have thought that they had a clear path, but that simply illustrates an unfamiliarity with the city building genre.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm in the same boat as some of the posts I've read here... after the update I can barely win any battles... when before the updates my army was strong and powerful, now it seems weak and fragile. My squads get wiped out like swatting out flies no matter what enemies I'm up against and what combination of warriors I chose. I find myself having to constantly decline any "win encounters" mission, as they've become close to impossible. I'm very frustrated. I really hope the next update will empower our armies a bit so that we do stand a chance, as I very much like the game and don't want to drop it.

 

[DeletedUser61]

But you are going to do it without a great many players who have WALKED OUT THE DOOR.

Flounce much?

You're entirely correct that it's a video game. As such there are challenges and puzzles that only work if folks have approximately the resources that the designers anticipated. There is a very long tradition, in city builders, of folks pushing the envelope and getting reined in.

Ignoring the well established history of our genre, and of real "city building" for that matter, is obviously not working for you. COSTS are just as important in a City Building game as they are in a real city. If you've discovered how to write an unlimited number of checks, then you're going to get slammed with balances.

This is NOT just a "video game" where the incentives and rewards are strictly internal. A city builder is a MODEL of a larger reality wherein the costs of brick and mortar and civil order DO matter. I much prefer a game that honors the same constraints that exist in the construction of an actual city, and I'm delighted that we're finally getting there.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Flounce much?

You're entirely correct that it's a video game. As such there are challenges and puzzles that only work if folks have approximately the resources that the designers anticipated. There is a very long tradition, in city builders, of folks pushing the envelope and getting reined in.

Ignoring the well established history of our genre, and of real "city building" for that matter, is obviously not working for you. COSTS are just as important in a City Building game as they are in a real city. If you've discovered how to write an unlimited number of checks, then you're going to get slammed with balances.

This is NOT just a "video game" where the incentive and rewards are strictly internal. A city builder is a MODEL of a larger reality wherein the costs of brick and mortar and civil order DO matter. I'd MUCH rather have a game that honors the same constraints that exist in the construction of an actual city.

Exactly. Thank you.

Have to say though, that in looking over the Beta Forum and in looking at the actual 1.16 release notes etc.. some of what BobbyKitty said is there but not nearly what he was saying. Gotta love the doom and gloomers.

 

[DeletedUser]

Starting an additional city is the obvious response. Simply wait for the game to catch up with the provinces that you got on the cheap in your "too difficult now" city, which you developed on the cheap.

I'm not going around again on this idea that all of us players created our cities "on the cheap" or somehow got around the system in some way. NO ONE played this game outside of the boundaries that were in place at the time we were playing. NO ONE had in game or wiki warnings or comments from Inno reps that we were exploring 'too far' until the Orc negotiation cost was put into place in one of the more recent updates. NO ONE got provinces cleared at no cost, NO ONE paid nothing in scouting costs, NO ONE secretly took advantage of the game and told everyone else how to do it.

I'm not looking to argue with you, Katjwick, as much as I am pointing out that you cannot back up your accusations that we advanced players somehow didn't follow the rules about scouting provinces - THERE WERE NO RULES IN PLACE TO PREVENT ANY PLAYER FROM DOING IT. And we were ENCOURAGED to scout, fight & earn relics BY THE GAME.

Anyway, I would like to address your comment that the "obvious response" is to start another city. I would like to ask you - or anyone from Inno - or anyone else who wishes to reply - so, how does telling a long-term player they should start over again in any way show respect to them? Starting a new game pays no acknowledgement to the time, money (to those who have purchased diamonds) or effort that a player has put into their city. Telling them to start a new game gives no account to a player being established in a FS or their neighborhood. Telling them to start a new game pays no mind to the neighbors they may visit & trade with or to the other players who rely on that. Telling them to start a new game is a big old kick in the face that their rune collection, built & unbuilt AWs mean nothing & who cares how far you've upgraded your other buildings, and who cares that you previously won a quest prize that you really like - leave it all behind, and go start new! Who cares if you like the social aspect of your current FS, who cares if you are the Archmage or Mage of your FS - dump all that & start again if you want to enjoy the game again!

Seriously - THAT is the answer? On what planet is that acceptable customer service? What happened to a general attitude of respect or appreciation to loyal customers who've been playing long enough to get to this point? And does anyone see, ANYWHERE, where any Inno reps are making an alternative suggestion to staying frozen, to quitting or to starting a new game?

Starting a new game! Of course that's the answer that makes sense! Lemme go tell my FS & my neighbors that they can't count on me taking their large trades anymore or giving them KP or taking their unfair trades when they are in a bind or giving them any visits anymore - not to mention my wit & company in chat - I know that will be missed! Sheesh...

 

[DeletedUser]

Flounce much?

You're entirely correct that it's a video game. As such there are challenges and puzzles that only work if folks have approximately the resources that the designers anticipated. There is a very long tradition, in city builders, of folks pushing the envelope and getting reined in.

Ignoring the well established history of our genre, and of real "city building" for that matter, is obviously not working for you. COSTS are just as important in a City Building game as they are in a real city. If you've discovered how to write an unlimited number of checks, then you're going to get slammed with balances.

Okay, clearly your opinion is that so many of us have all played WRONG all this time. Say tons of us AREN'T aware of the "well established history", then what? This is the first city game I've ever played - shouldn't there have been warnings or checks & balances in place by the game itself from the get-go? Is everyone now obligated to research the kind of game they may start playing on a whim to determine what the parameters are before they actually try it out or start to enjoy it?

If there were no checks & balances in-game, do the devs have any responsibility for that or for refunding players who spent diamonds now that they have changed the game drastically? Why or why not? Do players have any rights to be frustrated or only within certain parameters?

Is it your job - or the job of the game - to put so many boundaries in place that every single player is funneled to the exact same spot, no matter HOW they organize their city or how much or how little they play? Should there be any differences in score at all other than in relation to where a player is located on the Tech Tree? Where do you draw the line on player individuality? Should anyone even have any or should all players expect to be treated like sheep who have no valuable input? Why is a forum for feedback set up if there is no intention to read comments from the players?

I genuinely want to know. Katwijk, one thing I will say for you is that your POV has never changed since I've been reading the forum (although really, mine hasn't either). I respect your dedication to your perspective but I continue to not understand it whatsoever. None of us begrudge the fact that YOU (or anyone else who agrees with you) like the game with tighter controls, but you seem to take delight in telling the rest of us who are frustrated that we deserve to feel that way because we've somehow been playing the game wrong/we've been somehow getting ahead unfairly/we were too focused on having fun & didn't play like we were creating a real city in the real world.

Sheesh, man, I play this game to ESCAPE the real world! And the devs can't have it both ways - we can't be told to play this game like it's a real city one minute & therefore has to conform to realistic boundaries yet the next minute be told it's a fantasy game & there's no slavery, drug use or bodily functions involved because it's all just "pretend".

 

[DeletedUser43]

This is NOT just a "video game"

Yes it is. That is all it is. This isn't reality. This is a GAME. (Have you taken your meds today?)

how to write an unlimited number of checks

What is unlimited? Because I conquered a few provinces? I have been every day for a solid year and a half!! Of course I have some provinces conquered!! If I didn't there would be something seriously wrong. I have 140 provinces left to conquer ahead of me before I get all the expansions. How does that equal unlimited? If I was unlimited, then all those provinces would be conquered and I would have 14 more expansions. But I don't.

I can't talk to you when you get like this. You are off on some planet somewhere.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Yes it is. That is all it is. This isn't reality. This is a GAME. (Have you taken your meds today?)



What is unlimited? Because I conquered a few provinces? I have been every day for a solid year and a half!! Of course I have some provinces conquered!! If I didn't there would be something seriously wrong. I have 140 provinces left to conquer ahead of me before I get all the expansions. How does that equal unlimited? If I was unlimited, then all those provinces would be conquered and I would have 14 more expansions. But I don't.

I can't talk to you when you get like this. You are off on some planet somewhere.

Have you taken your meds today? I just love how you cut and past certain parts of what he says and take things totally out of context. Now try posting the ENTIRE quote where that seven words was taken from. You might actually GET the meaning if you did so. He's trying to convey that the video game is NOT ~just~ about certain aspects. But you missed that in your condescension.

 

[DeletedUser43]

He is arguing that this video game has other aspects to it besides just a shoot em up, where you have to balance resources and make decisions and that it is more like reality than some game like candy crush and he is glad that this game is getting more complex. My point, which has sailed over your head, is that this is a game first and foremost that people play for fun. And if it isn't fun they won't play.

Complexity is fine. But if you have constrained action to the point that all one can do is stare at the screen and wait as long as an actual building takes to rise before you can do anything, then the game isn't any fun at all.

And if he is going to be snarky and condescending to me, then he gets what he gets. If he is polite and respectful to me and to others, then I will be polite and respectful back. Same with you.

I haven't told either of you how to play. I haven't been nasty to you and told you that the way you play is anything at all. I haven't even commented on your game play. In fact, that is against the forum rules. The forums are for your opinions about the topic. If you like the thing, then be my guest like whatever we are talking about. If you don't, then share that opinion.

There is no reason to derail this threat topic (whatever it is), with a stupid off topic argument. Feel free to have the last word. I won't respond.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

He is arguing that this video game has other aspects to it besides just a shoot em up, where you have to balance resources and make decisions and that it is more like reality than some game like candy crush and he is glad that this game is getting more complex. My point, which has sailed over your head, is that this is a game first and foremost that people play for fun. And if it isn't fun they won't play.

Complexity is fine. But if you have constrained action to the point that all one can do is stare at the screen and wait as long as an actual building takes to rise before you can do anything, then the game isn't any fun at all.

And if he is going to be snarky and condescending to me, then he gets what he gets. If he is polite and respectful to me and to others, then I will be polite and respectful back. Same with you.

I haven't told either of you how to play. I haven't been nasty to you and told you that the way you play is anything at all. I haven't even commented on your game play. In fact, that is against the forum rules. The forums are for your opinions about the topic. If you like the thing, then be my guest like whatever we are talking about. If you don't, then share that opinion.

Actually it did not 'sail' over my head. Didn't even come close to my knees. The game was always complex, some people just chose to ignore certain aspects and now that Inno has decided, in the effort of game balance, to enforce certain things, certain people view this is 'not fun.' Newsflash, this is upgrade 1 of 3. You don't know what the end result is going to be. You are not even waiting to find out before you blast away.

The actions is not constrained to that point. Not even close. Stop being over-dramatic.

 

[DeletedUser]

The game was always complex, some people just chose to ignore certain aspects and now that Inno has decided, in the effort of game balance, to enforce certain things, certain people view this is 'not fun.' Newsflash, this is upgrade 1 of 3. You don't know what the end result is going to be. You are not even waiting to find out before you blast away.

Hmm... Lionsmane, are you the player in Elcysandir who has 7380 points & is ranked at 4602? If you are, this is no dig at you - we all started the game at zero. But, I want to say that if you are that player, then you don't have the same history in this game or on this forum that other players - who have been playing longer & who have more experience, do. And that means that you don't know whether the game was "always complex" & you have no basis for saying that "some people just chose to ignore certain aspects....", because you don't know what rules or guidelines were in place or not for those players. Maybe I am wrong & you play under a different name that has more time in or experience - please correct me if I am incorrect about your game experience.

Sometimes there is snark or sarcasm on this forum - sometimes it's intentional by a poster, sometimes it's assumed to be the tone of the person who is reading a response, even if that was not the intent of the writer. Sometimes people feel adversarial or take things too personally. It is up to all of us individually what we say or who we say it to.

I am choosing to say that while advanced/more experienced players are not always right simply by the fact that they have clocked in a lot of game time, nor are new & lesser experienced players correct to assume they know everything that happened in the game before they even started playing it. And actually, any of us can choose to have a window into what the end result is going to be because we can all go & read the Beta forum where changes are implemented first & players give their reaction to it, and we can also infer what results will be based upon what changes we know will be made, and what changes & results have occurred in the past. What is that saying? Oh yes - the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Many of us longer-term players have seen the past behavior & we can connect the dots.
Of course it's okay if you don't agree. But personally I tend to be skeptical when a newer player claims they know how the game has always been, or that long-term players ignored parts of the game in some way, or other similar talking points.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Hmm... Lionsmane, are you the player in Elcysandir who has 7380 points & is ranked at 4602? If you are, this is no dig at you - we all started the game at zero. But, I want to say that if you are that player, then you don't have the same history in this game or on this forum that other players - who have been playing longer & who have more experience, do. And that means that you don't know whether the game was "always complex" & you have no basis for saying that "some people just chose to ignore certain aspects....", because you don't know what rules or guidelines were in place or not for those players. Maybe I am wrong & you play under a different name that has more time in or experience - please correct me if I am incorrect about your game experience.

I am indeed that very same. What does that mean? Not a whole lot. It doesn't show the depth of my experience with this game because a person can have a city on each server, more if they wanted to break the rules but that is against TOS. This currently is my only active city and server. I used to have more back in the day before I lost Net access. To give you an idea, I discovered Elvenar back when the version was .05 so not quite the exact beginning but pretty close. So I saw how it was and what it was nearly in the beginning. There was always the complexity of being able to build, research, scout and fight. There was always an underlying need that was not stated to balance the three as you played. Some chose to go wild with attacking, researching what was necessary but not keeping that balance. Some chose a slower route where they would scout a ring, conquer some, research and build.

What others have alluded to is that this game is not unique in its platform style. The type of game is rather cookie cutterish. Then again most all browser games are. The content is different but in all of them they share the same 'builder style' elements. You found your city, you build a few structures that are mainly the main res gathering types. You then research and that unlocks more and more advanced things and then there is the exploration and fighting. The difference between this and those is that early on there was no clear limitations and the battles were easy, alluringly so.

Personally I would have expected a bit more from a company that cuts its teeth back in 2003 and this being their culmination project but it is what it is. They learned and adapted from what they learned. Looking back over the revision notes shows a clear line of progress towards that and to where we are now.

 

[DeletedUser]

It doesn't show the depth of my experience with this game because a person can have a city on each server, more if they wanted...

I feel that rank & score DO show the depth of a player's experience with this game. If you've played previously & discovered this game so long ago, did you participate here in the forum? Did you play or post under different names? I ask because this is relevant to whether your comments now have weight ~ at least in my book. It is a natural human quality to give more significance to someone who has more experience, has been around longer, has seen the changes & updates that have already occurred. Currently, your comments that are posted as a new member (of the forum) and your lower score & ranking make it appear as though you have little knowledge to back up your claims about the game or the other players who play it.

I think you are right that we all could have expected more from a company established in 2003, but that things are what they are now. I begrudge no one or no company from learning something as they go & then making adjustments. But that is also true of myself - I learn as I go & then make adjustments, and right now I'm learning that my experiences as a longer-term/more advanced player are continually dismissed both by the devs & Inno reps. Additionally, I find quite a few comments here on the forum from players who are new to the forum or who even look like they are new to the game (based on rank, points & city size and where they are on the Tech Tree) and are now trying to admonish others who are farther along, been playing longer & even reading the forums longer.

That is suspicious to me. I don't mean that it's suspicious that some people like the changes even though others don't - this game isn't a one size fits all & there are bound to be aspects that some like & some don't. I mean it's suspicious to read some really vitriolic comments about how us old fogeys "played wrong", "went too far", "were overeager", had little to no understanding of how city games are "supposed" to work, are "whining" any time we share a negative opinion (even though that's exactly what this forum asks for - feedback), and on and on.

Lionsmane, one thing we agree on, although we interpret it differently, I think ~

There was always an underlying need that was not stated to balance the three as you played.

Of course this is true based upon the boundaries that the game presented. For example, you cannot keep building houses or other buildings unless you balance your culture - the game does not let you build or upgrade something new if you don't have enough culture to do so. Lots of examples like this in the game - however, the key words to me is that the game had these boundaries in place & players learned them & adjusted to them in the beginning. Also from the beginning, the game encouraged scouting, fighting & collecting relics. How did they do this? By offering repeated quest lines that rewarded it, by not putting any boundaries in place to prevent it, and by making reaching other neighbors a bonus - ie, once you 'discover' them, you can trade with them without a fee and give each other visits that reward players with coins & supplies.

So now, they want to change it. Okay, I don't love this idea, but I can understand it to some extent. However, the way it's been handled by the devs & moderators here, the lack of feedback, the dismissal of any nay-sayers as telling us it was our fault to begin with, the out & out criticisms that unhappy players are facing if they dare to speak up, the fallout of the high-level (and low level) players that are quitting over it ~ all of this combines to leave a very negative taste in a lot of players mouths, and frankly, the suspicion I spoke about above too.

Then again, maybe I am just a natural-born skeptic.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

I feel that rank & score DO show the depth of a player's experience with this game. If you've played previously & discovered this game so long ago, did you participate here in the forum? Did you play or post under different names? I ask because this is relevant to whether your comments now have weight ~ at least in my book. It is a natural human quality to give more significance to someone who has more experience, has been around longer, has seen the changes & updates that have already occurred. Currently, your comments that are posted as a new member (of the forum) and your lower score & ranking make it appear as though you have little knowledge to back up your claims about the game or the other players who play it.

You are perfectly free to feel that way but rank and score on ONE server do not reflect the depth of a person experience with the game. A person can have multiple cities. One could be near end of content with a high rank and score on one server and be of a beginning rank and score on another server. Back then I played, strictly played. It was under a different name and no I did not come to the forum to post or comment.

I think you are right that we all could have expected more from a company established in 2003, but that things are what they are now. I begrudge no one or no company from learning something as they go & then making adjustments. But that is also true of myself - I learn as I go & then make adjustments, and right now I'm learning that my experiences as a longer-term/more advanced player are continually dismissed both by the devs & Inno reps. Additionally, I find quite a few comments here on the forum from players who are new to the forum or who even look like they are new to the game (based on rank, points & city size and where they are on the Tech Tree) and are now trying to admonish others who are farther along, been playing longer & even reading the forums longer.

That is suspicious to me. I don't mean that it's suspicious that some people like the changes even though others don't - this game isn't a one size fits all & there are bound to be aspects that some like & some don't. I mean it's suspicious to read some really vitriolic comments about how us old fogeys "played wrong", "went too far", "were overeager", had little to no understanding of how city games are "supposed" to work, are "whining" any time we share a negative opinion (even though that's exactly what this forum asks for - feedback), and on and on.

Problem is you look at things literally and take it that way. There are likely thousands of players that just don't come to the forums to post or come and just read the tips, tricks, guides and hints. Some comment if they feel moved to but some don't Some come here and comment to help etc or just be a part of the forum community and forge contacts and friendships. It's not a measure of how long a person has played or their experience.

Of course this is true based upon the boundaries that the game presented. For example, you cannot keep building houses or other buildings unless you balance your culture - the game does not let you build or upgrade something new if you don't have enough culture to do so. Lots of examples like this in the game - however, the key words to me is that the game had these boundaries in place & players learned them & adjusted to them in the beginning. Also from the beginning, the game encouraged scouting, fighting & collecting relics. How did they do this? By offering repeated quest lines that rewarded it, by not putting any boundaries in place to prevent it, and by making reaching other neighbors a bonus - ie, once you 'discover' them, you can trade with them without a fee and give each other visits that reward players with coins & supplies.

Yes, the game offered these quests but you do get that these quests are repetitive? Some are one offs like building the Trader or Magic Academy but often they repeat. In the end it falls to the player to look at things and decide to do it or not do it. I have two quests now that I have chosen to ignore for the moment. A player does not HAVE to do something simply because it comes up in the feed. There is no requirement, there is no continuous urging and nothing is tied to doing THAT quest that inhibits growth if you do not do it.

So now, they want to change it. Okay, I don't love this idea, but I can understand it to some extent. However, the way it's been handled by the devs & moderators here, the lack of feedback, the dismissal of any nay-sayers as telling us it was our fault to begin with, the out & out criticisms that unhappy players are facing if they dare to speak up, the fallout of the high-level (and low level) players that are quitting over it ~ all of this combines to leave a very negative taste in a lot of players mouths, and frankly, the suspicion I spoke about above too.

Then again, maybe I am just a natural-born skeptic.

You do realize the amount time that would be spent and honestly wasted by the Devs and Mods if they addressed every single gripe that was posted on the forums? There simply would be no improvements, no updates and no new content. That would literally be a full time job for several people in and of itself. For the mods this is very likely a non-paying gig that they choose to do in addition to playing. They don't get paid. More than likely they are simply watching, reading, and waiting for the full implementation before they accept and address any of what would then be valid concerns and gripes.

It was the players fault. But it was done out of ignorance. There is blame on both sides there. The devs have accepted their blame and moved to correct things. The players are the ones, that for some, are not accepting their part of the blame. The fallout comes when people knee jerk propose a ban and boycott when the update is 1) not even complete and 2) is not even two weeks into it.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The entire game is centered around world map exploration. You need coins and supplies to make your city work. You get those by a few ways including neighborly help. You get a bonus if a player has discovered you too and comes and visits you. You are highly encouraged to do as much neighborly help as you can. Your scouting costs rise, but it is worth it because you get more neighbors when you scout. That is good for the game. Newcomers get help too. We all need each other. It is the core of the game.

Trader
The trader has a fee if you haven't reached out far enough. You have to learn to avoid this fee. You avoid it by exploration. Going out in the map and seeing more of the world. Seeing far and distant lands and meeting new and exciting neighbors.

Quests
If you still aren't clear that you need to explore, there are guides given to each player. They give you quests. They tell you to explore. Gain 4 relics. Solve 4 encounters. Fight 3 encounters. Clear a province. They give you these quests over and over on a repeating loop.

Contests
If you STILL haven't gotten the message yet, there are contests that have quests that you have to complete to win the prize. We have one currently that has you gain 17 relics as just one of the tasks.

Magic Academy
Then the magic academy was released. If you don't want to build it you will pay a dear price by never having another storyline quest because you get a non declinable quest to build it. If you do build it, you can't delete it. Half the site was up in arms over that nonsense. Go see all the threads. Inno sent out questionnaires about it. What don't you like about it? Why do you all hate it so much? They ignored every comment. Oh...and that things runs on relics which you get from clearing provinces. That oh so integral to the game that you cannot ever delete that monstrosity of a building.

Ancient Wonders
And let's not stop there. We have those ancient wonders. They were next introduced. How do you build them you ask? With runes. Where do you get runes? From clearing provinces. Not from tournaments...they didn't even exist. Veterans, so sorry, but you get ZERO runes for all those provinces you already cleared. I know, I know, it now takes you 2 days for scouting times, but too bad, so sad for you, only the newcomers will get those runes easily. You vets....you can sit there and wait and wait and wait and wait. But hurry up and go clear more provinces so you can get a rune that will likely break and you can go clear more and more and more provinces to maybe build one of the two ancient wonders.

And then another 2 ancient wonders were introduced so you needed more runes.

And then another 2 ancient wonders.

And then more and more more of these wonders that need TONS of runes.

Treasure Chests
Oh...and if you were just minding your business and you wanted to play a nice leisurely game and somehow weren't taking part in all of this....BAM!!!! The new treasure chests came out and blocked people's path from advancing on the tech tree UNTIL they got the message and cleared enough provinces. No new content for you mister slow poke. Hurry up. Get out there. (I can't tell you how many players walked out of the game when that happened.)

Now, suddenly we are told to ignore all of that! In fact, if you follow it you will have a good portion of the game taken away from you? None of that makes any sense at all. It is as if you were playing poker and they just told you that if you win the wrong amount of money there will be a fine. The way the game is structured now completely contradicts itself.

So don't you dare blame the players for any of this.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

The entire game is centered around world map exploration. You need coins and supplies to make your city work. You get those by a few ways including neighborly help. You get a bonus if a player has discovered you too and comes and visits you. You are highly encouraged to do as much neighborly help as you can. Your scouting costs rise, but it is worth it because you get more neighbors when you scout. That is good for the game. Newcomers get help too. We all need each other. It is the core of the game.

Trader
The trader has a fee if you haven't reached out far enough. You have to learn to avoid this fee. You avoid it by exploration. Going out in the map and seeing more of the world. Seeing far and distant lands and meeting new and exciting neighbors.

Quests
If you still aren't clear that you need to explore, there are guides given to each player. They give you quests. They tell you to explore. Gain 4 relics. Solve 4 encounters. Fight 3 encounters. Clear a province. They give you these quests over and over on a repeating loop.

Contests
If you STILL haven't gotten the message yet, there are contests that have quests that you have to complete to win the prize. We have one currently that has you gain 17 relics as just one of the tasks.

Magic Academy
Then the magic academy was released. If you don't want to build it you will pay a dear price by never having another storyline quest because you get a non declinable quest to build it. If you do build it, you can't delete it. Half the site was up in arms over that nonsense. Go see all the threads. Inno sent out questionnaires about it. What don't you like about it? Why do you all hate it so much? They ignored every comment. Oh...and that things runs on relics which you get from clearing provinces. That oh so integral to the game that you cannot ever delete that monstrosity of a building.

Ancient Wonders
And let's not stop there. We have those ancient wonders. They were next introduced. How do you build them you ask? With runes. Where do you get runes? From clearing provinces. Not from tournaments...they didn't even exist. Veterans, so sorry, but you get ZERO runes for all those provinces you already cleared. I know, I know, it now takes you 2 days for scouting times, but too bad, so sad for you, only the newcomers will get those runes easily. You vets....you can sit there and wait and wait and wait and wait. But hurry up and go clear more provinces so you can get a rune that will likely break and you can go clear more and more and more provinces to maybe build one of the two ancient wonders.

And then another 2 ancient wonders were introduced so you needed more runes.

And then another 2 ancient wonders.

And then more and more more of these wonders that need TONS of runes.

Treasure Chests
Oh...and if you were just minding your business and you wanted to play a nice leisurely game and somehow weren't taking part in all of this....BAM!!!! The new treasure chests came out and blocked people's path from advancing on the tech tree UNTIL they got the message and cleared enough provinces. No new content for you mister slow poke. Hurry up. Get out there. (I can't tell you how many players walked out of the game when that happened.)

Now, suddenly we are told to ignore all of that! In fact, if you follow it you will have a good portion of the game taken away from you? None of that makes any sense at all. It is as if you were playing poker and they just told you that if you win the wrong amount of money there will be a fine. The way the game is structured now completely contradicts itself.

So don't you dare blame the players for any of this.

Nice spiel but it boils down to this. Free will. The quests are there but there is NOTHING that says a player HAS to do them. The only things a player HAS to do in order to advance is scout and conquer the set number of provinces and to build the requisite buildings for the goods it takes to advance a technology.

Everything else a player CHOOSES to do. So yes, this very much IS the players fault because they CHOSE the path they went down. The Devs did not tell them to do this. They chose it. Period.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

There might be nothing that says a player HAS to do them, but.... incentives encourage people to do things.

I could level a character in World of Warcraft doing absolutely no quests and just picking herbs for experience, and in fact someone did that all the way to max level, but that doesn't mean I should.

What is the point of having quests if we are not supposed to do them? You're acting like the players are at fault for choosing to do the questlines which are baked into the game, which are available.

Actually, what's even the point of upgrading your city's buildings? Players choose to do that too.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

There might be nothing that says a player HAS to do them, but.... incentives encourage people to do things.

I could level a character in World of Warcraft doing absolutely no quests and just picking herbs for experience, and in fact someone did that all the way to max level, but that doesn't mean I should.

What is the point of having quests if we are not supposed to do them? You're acting like the players are at fault for choosing to do the questlines which are baked into the game, which are available.

Actually, what's even the point of upgrading your city's buildings? Players choose to do that too.

Just as there are incentives to do these things there are likewise incentives for players to do a more even approach. Take for instance the player that does not over-scout. That does not conquer more provinces than what is required to unlock the next chest to get that scouting reduction. What is their incentive? Their battles are easier, their scout times and negotiations are cheaper and take less time.

No one is saying to NOT do them but one has to weigh the positives with the negatives in making that decision. When a player blindly does the questlines they are being led rather than leading their game.

A player doesn't really have a choice to not upgrade, not if they want to advance. Culture is finite as is population. Sure a player could NOT upgrade but then literally they would run into a wall and not be able to build anything further without doing so. They could research but even that would hit a wall as the increasing techs require certain produced goods that are produced in advanced buildings. IE Silk, Crystals, Scrolls, Crystals, Dust, Gems.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The Devs did not tell them to do this.

Who do you think wrote every line of code of everything I referenced above? You can pretend the poor little devs had all these mean ole nasty players play the game the wrong way if you want, but you have to ignore everything I said above.

That does not conquer more provinces than what is required to unlock the next chest to get that scouting reduction.

You meant those non existent chests? The ones the devs hadn't even thought of yet? The ones that weren't a part of the game? Those chests?

A player doesn't really have a choice to not upgrade, not if they want to advance. Culture is finite as is population. Sure a player could NOT upgrade but then literally they would run into a wall and not be able to build anything further without doing so.

In order to do those upgrades you need more space because the buildings get bigger. You get more space by scouting. Sure, you can stop scouting. You can not scout at all. You can not play this game at all. You can not build anything. But, as you said, if you don't upgrade you literally run into a wall. That is why people scout further and get more expansions.

I am not sure you understand what the game looks like as you progress because you are arguing for and against the same position. You say you understand you need upgrades, but then you blame players for being able to have the space to upgrade things.

You play every day for nearly two years and tell me what your city looks like. Until then, please don't judge other player's cities. You are not in their shoes and your comments are very cruel.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Who do you think wrote every line of code of everything I referenced above? You can pretend the poor little devs had all these mean ole nasty players play the game the wrong way if you want, but you have to ignore everything I said above.

Again, we go to people MAKING choices. The Devs ~AT NO POINT~ said you MUST do this. That was the player making the choice. Did the devs tell you to go scout and conquer 90-100 provinces? No. That was a choice people made. Did the devs say to ignore properly building and researching? Nope, that was a choice that players made. The choices that players made are what got us into this scrape.. guess what happened? The Devs made a choice to stop it.

I'm sorry that you are to busy whining about something that is not going away, to actually figure out what needs to be done to play. Contrary to your opinion the Devs did not take away anything from the players. Players can still scout and fight and conquer. Only now, some of them need to get on track and catch up in researches and building.

You meant those non existent chests? The ones the devs hadn't even thought of yet? The ones that weren't a part of the game? Those chests?

How long have the chests been out now BobbyKitty? Answer: Quite a while. You would think that you would have gotten a clue about that by now.

In order to do those upgrades you need more space because the buildings get bigger. You get more space by scouting. Sure, you can stop scouting. You can not scout at all. You can not play this game at all. You can not build anything. But, as you said, if you don't upgrade you literally run into a wall. That is why people scout further and get more expansions.

Yes, you need space. You do get the concept that the game gives you expansions and that if you just scout and conquer the recommended number of provinces you have exactly what you need in terms of space for the chapters? I'm not sure you do. There is NO NEED to scout and conquer beyond the recommended. None.

I am not sure you understand what the game looks like as you progress because you are arguing for and against the same position. You say you understand you need upgrades, but then you blame players for being able to have the space to upgrade things.

I know exactly what the game looks like. The only thing I am arguing for is that people don't need to over-scout. That the game, contrary to what you claim, is still and always was playable. Players ~do NOT need~ to overscout and conquer to GET expansions. What they earn from researched expansions and what they get from the recommended conquers is enough, more than enough in fact.

My comments are not cruel. They are factual. As to playing in someone elses shoes for two years? Had I done that, I would not have made the same mistakes you did.. then again had I done that, I would have accepted responsibility for what the Devs felt they had to do...