Henroo
Oh Wise One
@Dew Spinner Since you are an early game player, you might want to go for Needles of Tempest. It gives all of your light ranged troops a damage bonus and increases training speed in your barracks. One of the better military AWs.
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Your Elvenar Team
Best AWs with new tournament changes
- Thread starter Dew Spinner
- Start date
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I agree I should have included the Prosperity Tower as the need for supplies increases. Mine (lvl 8) produces 80k every three hours compared to my lvl 35 workshops at 60k every three hours. And the Prosperity Tower takes up less space and increases the POP spells. Since I keep those on my 3 Magic Workshops, it really impacts how many I need to keep that up. So, imo, good call, Darielle.
AJ
AJ
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree with you on those ones! I think everyone is hurting for supplies now that you can train in all the military buildings at the same time.
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
I did build that one but have read other comments about the AWs that speed up the other 2 military buildings might not be worth it. What is your opinion on those two?
Henroo
Oh Wise One
They were worthwhile under the old system, where all 3 military buildings shared the same training queue. Cause then you could only operate 1 of them at a time. Under the new system where you can run all 3 military buildings at the same time, they are not nearly as important. I think barracks is the most important facility for a developing player because your barracks troops get promotions faster. Specialist troops from the Training Grounds and Mercenary Camp will become better than your Barracks troops in several categories *once* they get promoted. But in many cases the 2 and 3 star promotions for Training Grounds and Mercenary Camp troops don't happen until later chapters. Until you reach these promotions, 3 star Barracks units will often be your best bet. Therefore a developing player needs to make a lot of barracks troops, because you are using them the most.
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Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Great advice, AJ! As a chapter 3 city I really appreciate good advice like this!
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
I mean Henroo, Sorry!
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Does anybody have any opinions on other AWs that would be definitely "do not build" and why?
Henroo
Oh Wise One
There are 3 AWs primarily concerned with supplies: Tome of Secrets, Endless Excavation, and Prosperity Towers. Tome of Secrets gives you supplies every time you scout a province. It is good for an early chapter player, when scout times are low and when you are quickly moving through chapters. But as you hit the later chapters, scout times get much longer and so does the time you spend in each chapter. I found myself with weeks at the end of a chapter when I had already done all my scouting I needed to advance and was just waiting to finish the research. ToS is not nearly as good once this happens. I ended up tearing mine down. So I recommend against ToS. Or you could build it and not level it very far with the plan to tear it down at a later date.
I have never built Endless Excavation in any of my cities, so somebody else will have to answer that one. I will say that if I was starting a city from scratch, I would try EE instead of Tome just to see how it works. I have built Prosperity Towers in all 3 of my cities and highly recommend it once you unlock it. It makes a massive amount of supplies on its own, and it makes your Power of Provision spells both more powerful and longer lasting. Prosperity Towers really helps me keep up with supplies.
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Your wonders are low level compared to those feeling the impact, so you won't see the difference yet.
This wonder might be #1 on my must-have list. Its large footprint is a little off-putting at first, but the per square production easily outstrips workshops.
Just as an example: at level 6 it makes as much as my workshop does in 9+9+3+3 hour productions.
The difference is the
- EE takes up 22 squares (20+roads)
- WS takes up 44 squares (25+15 for residence+roads)
Henroo
Oh Wise One
@SoggyShorts Once I came to the decision to tear down my Tome of Secrets, I ran the numbers on Endless Excavation vs Prosperity Towers. PT works on a 3 hour schedule while EE is on a 24 hour schedule. If you manage 4 collections a day, PT will give you the same amount of supplies as an EE of the same level. If you manage 5 or more collections a day, then PT is going to make more supplies. This is not as hard as it sounds, since 1 collection is always going to be ready first thing in the morning. Plus PT also enhances your PoP spells. So I chose Prosperity Towers and have not regretted it. However, I was in the position where I could build either. EE does become available much earlier in the game. If I ever get some free time on my hands and start a Beta city, I am going to try EE.
ekarat
Well-Known Member
My total tournament penalty from AWs is around 50%. That isn't huge, given that I'm taking zero steps to mitigate it. It's a mere 0.3% base / AW level. It doesn't stop me.
As for KP, what are your prices for purchasing at? For a lot of people, it's a cheaper cost per KP than what they spend per KP on the Tournament, especially if you go by the marginal rate rather than the average one.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
It's not a contest between the 2 though, they are both on the "must-have list"
I had a quick peek at your city,
L23 WS running 9h+3+3+3+3+3 = 40K supplies(assuming 170% culture bonus)
Size is 20 squares+2 for roads, plus it takes 1356 pop. Your residences give 1200 pop in 12 squres plus 1.5 roads, and all of that needs some culture
The rough output is 1,000 supplies per square per day.
A level 1 EE would give you 35,700 supplies per day, or 1,622 supplies per square per day
At level 3 for just a few hundred KP it pumps out 2,163 per square per day, which over 100% more than your workshops!
The criteria for being on my "must-have" list is very strict: the wonder must be better than your current buildings even with a zero KP investment, and the EE is absolutely a must-have wonder.
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Henroo
Oh Wise One
Well, actually it was a contest between the two since I only had space for 1 at the time. lol
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Was removing a workshop and residence to make room for the EE somehow not possible?
Admittedly I haven't run the numbers for every city out there, but I've done enough of them that I'm fairly confident that adding the EE actually adds space to a city, it doesn't take any away.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I haven't run the numbers on that, but you've intrigued me enough to think I should. I've never built the EE either, so I'll check it out.
Henroo
Oh Wise One
EE is bigger than my current workshops. Also, I typically get some 15 minute and 1 hour productions out of my workshops every day while I do other stuff. For example, I can read a book or watch TV for a few hours in the evening after work and make a few cycles of bread. Based on this, I feel my workshops are more productive than the schedule you are quoting figures for. Plus, you can't cast Power of Provision on EE and triple its output.
That being said, your figures are interesting. There should be a fellowship adventure coming up after the current event. Which means I will be teleporting things out of my city anyway to make room for a L1 slum section. I might try to plan things so that after the FA ends, I do not bring everything back out of storage. Which could free up space for EE. The whole "kill two birds with 1 teleport building" thing.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
It's super easy if you use Elvenarchitect:
Your city now(Link)
vs
Your city with +1 EE, -1 Res, -1 WS(Link)
changes are:
-193 pop
+1479 culture
+15 empty squares
Supplies are about even on a "normal" 9h+4x3h collection schedule.
and remember, that's at level 1. The EE production DOUBLES at level 6 and just gets more efficient from there
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Really? Which server, maybe I'm looking at the wrong Henroo? And are you including all of the residence and culture squares that your workshop needs?
At the very least the residence that supports the WS much be counted as taking space.
Based on a 9h cycle for sleep, 3h for work + 3h for work after lunch and then bread for 9 straight hours you still can't beat a level 1 EE
1500 per sq vs 1600
True, you do need around a level 16 EE to beat a PoP spell, but since you can't replace all 7 WS with 7 EEs, the question you have to ask is: Are you running PoP 24/7 on all 7 workshops?
I really struggle to envision a situation where you'd have a PoP spell on 6 workshops and regret not being able to PoP the 7th one.
Realistically having an EE that is 100% better than your 7th workshop all of the time is going to get you a lot more than a 7th workshop that you get 50% more than an EE using a PoP some of the time.
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Henroo
Oh Wise One
No, I am comparing them on straight size. Culture is not really an issue right now because of how many Weeping Willows and Festival Merchants I have had to build to make mana. Would love to replace the last few WWs with FMs, but the Magic Academy is not cooperating with this plan. Have not seen the option to craft a FM in days. But the point is, I am not hurting for culture right now, so culture savings are not an immediate priority.
And as I said above, your figures are interesting enough that I am considering trying EE. It is just that with a fellowship adventure upcoming, I prefer to wait till the FA starts. I can teleport stuff out for the FA. Once it is over, and I sell off the L1 stuff and there would be room to build EE. If I don't like it, I could bring back the workshop and residence I teleported out. If EE does perform well, I have the workshop and residence in inventory for future use if need be. And since I would have been using the teleport building spells anyway for the FA, that cost is negated.