Best AWs with new tournament changes

[SoggyShorts]

your figures are interesting enough that I am considering trying EE.

cool cool. I made a bunch of edits above to post #39 if you're interested. It's been a while since I did an EE comparison and I'm a little rusty.

 

[DarkKitty]

So, for military AWs, what's the best call? Early on and then further?

 

[SoggyShorts]

So, for military AWs, what's the best call? Early on and then further?

The monastery/sanctuary is always going to be at or near the top of the list because it helps every single troop/fight and can even help you win fights you'd otherwise lose.

The needles is the first one you get, and the boost to archers is awesome. The speed increase in barracks is largely wasted early on though unless you babysit your barracks all day. Eventually (after chapter 5?) you start to balance out your armories and barracks so that you can produce troops 24/7 even when offline for sleep/work-- that's when you get the full bonus from this wonder.

This brings us to the next wonder the Dwarven Bulwark. This starts off as being better than your armories and just goes up from there.
Similarly the Shrewdy shrooms 2 chapters later is a staple in almost all military builds.

Eventually you'll want them all though since each fills a niche. The weakest is perhaps the Victory springs since light melee has fewer uses than other units.

 

[Henroo]

So, for military AWs, what's the best call? Early on and then further?

Dragon Abbey is a must build as soon as you unlock it. It gives a damage bonus to your mages, which is very nice and helps a lot. But that is not the primary reason for it! It also gives you mana every time you cast an enchantment on a city building. Mana on demand.

 

[Dew Spinner]

There are 3 AWs primarily concerned with supplies: Tome of Secrets, Endless Excavation, and Prosperity Towers. Tome of Secrets gives you supplies every time you scout a province. It is good for an early chapter player, when scout times are low and when you are quickly moving through chapters. But as you hit the later chapters, scout times get much longer and so does the time you spend in each chapter. I found myself with weeks at the end of a chapter when I had already done all my scouting I needed to advance and was just waiting to finish the research. ToS is not nearly as good once this happens. I ended up tearing mine down. So I recommend against ToS. Or you could build it and not level it very far with the plan to tear it down at a later date.
I have never built Endless Excavation in any of my cities, so somebody else will have to answer that one. I will say that if I was starting a city from scratch, I would try EE instead of Tome just to see how it works. I have built Prosperity Towers in all 3 of my cities and highly recommend it once you unlock it. It makes a massive amount of supplies on its own, and it makes your Power of Provision spells both more powerful and longer lasting. Prosperity Towers really helps me keep up with supplies.

There are 3 AWs primarily concerned with supplies: Tome of Secrets, Endless Excavation, and Prosperity Towers. Tome of Secrets gives you supplies every time you scout a province. It is good for an early chapter player, when scout times are low and when you are quickly moving through chapters. But as you hit the later chapters, scout times get much longer and so does the time you spend in each chapter. I found myself with weeks at the end of a chapter when I had already done all my scouting I needed to advance and was just waiting to finish the research. ToS is not nearly as good once this happens. I ended up tearing mine down. So I recommend against ToS. Or you could build it and not level it very far with the plan to tear it down at a later date.
I have never built Endless Excavation in any of my cities, so somebody else will have to answer that one. I will say that if I was starting a city from scratch, I would try EE instead of Tome just to see how it works. I have built Prosperity Towers in all 3 of my cities and highly recommend it once you unlock it. It makes a massive amount of supplies on its own, and it makes your Power of Provision spells both more powerful and longer lasting. Prosperity Towers really helps me keep up with supplies.

I opted not to build Tomes, didn't want to waste KP on a wonder that wouldn't be good through the "whole" game. I did build EE because the the demand on supplies for training in all 3 military buildings at the same time.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Your wonders are low level compared to those feeling the impact, so you won't see the difference yet.

This wonder might be #1 on my must-have list. Its large footprint is a little off-putting at first, but the per square production easily outstrips workshops.

Just as an example: at level 6 it makes as much as my workshop does in 9+9+3+3 hour productions.
The difference is the

• EE takes up 22 squares (20+roads)
• WS takes up 44 squares (25+15 for residence+roads)

And that doesn't even account for culture requirements.

Even as a low chapter city, I agree wholeheartedly on this one.

 

[Dew Spinner]

@SoggyShorts Once I came to the decision to tear down my Tome of Secrets, I ran the numbers on Endless Excavation vs Prosperity Towers. PT works on a 3 hour schedule while EE is on a 24 hour schedule. If you manage 4 collections a day, PT will give you the same amount of supplies as an EE of the same level. If you manage 5 or more collections a day, then PT is going to make more supplies. This is not as hard as it sounds, since 1 collection is always going to be ready first thing in the morning. Plus PT also enhances your PoP spells. So I chose Prosperity Towers and have not regretted it. However, I was in the position where I could build either. EE does become available much earlier in the game. If I ever get some free time on my hands and start a Beta city, I am going to try EE.

I think with the new demands on supplies both EE and PT are good bets to have. Remember, Inno has made this a whole new game with the sweeping recent changes.

 

[Dew Spinner]

The monastery/sanctuary is always going to be at or near the top of the list because it helps every single troop/fight and can even help you win fights you'd otherwise lose.

The needles is the first one you get, and the boost to archers is awesome. The speed increase in barracks is largely wasted early on though unless you babysit your barracks all day. Eventually (after chapter 5?) you start to balance out your armories and barracks so that you can produce troops 24/7 even when offline for sleep/work-- that's when you get the full bonus from this wonder.

This brings us to the next wonder the Dwarven Bulwark. This starts off as being better than your armories and just goes up from there.
Similarly the Shrewdy shrooms 2 chapters later is a staple in almost all military builds.

Eventually you'll want them all though since each fills a niche. The weakest is perhaps the Victory springs since light melee has fewer uses than other units.

Can you elaborate a little more on the Dwarven Bullwark, since the new Tournament penalty changes I have heard a lot of Yeas and Nays about this one. I understand it increases your training size but if the double penalty from the AW levels and the Land it sits on only causes more of all your troops to be killed, the training size increase seems like your are just trading off more troops to train to meet the penalty of losing more troops because of the new tournament penalty. I am only chapter 3, forgive my ignorance!

 

[Dew Spinner]

The monastery/sanctuary is always going to be at or near the top of the list because it helps every single troop/fight and can even help you win fights you'd otherwise lose.

The needles is the first one you get, and the boost to archers is awesome. The speed increase in barracks is largely wasted early on though unless you babysit your barracks all day. Eventually (after chapter 5?) you start to balance out your armories and barracks so that you can produce troops 24/7 even when offline for sleep/work-- that's when you get the full bonus from this wonder.

This brings us to the next wonder the Dwarven Bulwark. This starts off as being better than your armories and just goes up from there.
Similarly the Shrewdy shrooms 2 chapters later is a staple in almost all military builds.

Eventually you'll want them all though since each fills a niche. The weakest is perhaps the Victory springs since light melee has fewer uses than other units.

Unfortunately I will not want them all. I only want to sink thousands of KP in the best ones and keep the extra space for other buildings that don't count as a penalty! Gone are the days of having all the AWs, you now have to whittle them down to only the best ones. That's why I am trying to figure out which those are. I know a lot of players have sunk thousands of KPs in having all or most of the AWs and it is nearly impossible for them to sell or discount any of them. But the new sweeping changes have made it absolutely necessary for new players to pick and choose! My question is...If the thousands of KP investment was NOT an issue and you "could" get back all the thousands of KP invested...what AWs would you get rid of to reduce your overall penalty?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Can you elaborate a little more on the Dwarven Bullwark

The goal for training troops is to keep production running even while you are offline.
This is different for each player, but a standard goal is a 10h training queue. You basically can't achieve this late game without at least one of the 2 queue boosting wonders (Bullwark and shrewdy) since they can each replace up to a dozen armories that each take up 2 expansions(including pop)

nfortunately I will not want them all. I only want to sink thousands of KP in the best ones and keep the extra space for other buildings that don't count as a penalty! Gone are the days of having all the AWs, you now have to whittle them down to only the best ones. That's why I am trying to figure out which those are. I know a lot of players have sunk thousands of KPs in having all or most of the AWs and it is nearly impossible for them to sell or discount any of them.

I meant all of the military wonders since those are what you asked about.
If you plan to fight the spire and the tournament you will want them all as they benefit you more than they penalize you. (even factoring in the expansion they are on and how the levels add to SS in the new system)
The 5 unit types are all needed and are buffed by a different building each.

Spoiler: It's a big game of Rock>Paper>Scissors (Lizard >Spock) and you can't excel at it if you can only throw rock.

For non-military, there are plenty you can skip though. Enar's, Thrones, Maze, ToS, LH, WT, BTG, ST, LHgN, and everything after chapter 14.

 

[Henroo]

Can you elaborate a little more on the Dwarven Bullwark, since the new Tournament penalty changes I have heard a lot of Yeas and Nays about this one. I understand it increases your training size but if the double penalty from the AW levels and the Land it sits on only causes more of all your troops to be killed, the training size increase seems like your are just trading off more troops to train to meet the penalty of losing more troops because of the new tournament penalty. I am only chapter 3, forgive my ignorance!

If you are doing a military strategy, build Dwarven Bulwark as soon as you can. It adds a huge amount to your training size and lets your miltary buildings keep going much longer between log-ins. DB is worth it as soon as your can build it, no matter what. The chatter you are hearing is from late game players who have both Dwarven Bulwark and Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms. And it is quite possible that a player with an advanced SSS does not need DB anymore. But you still need to build DB in order to get to the point where you can build SSS in the first place...

 

[DarkKitty]

@Henroo and @SoggyShorts,

I'm not out of Chapter 5 yet, but I can build both Needles and the Martial Monastery. I'm thinking of doing the Monastery first because I can see that benefit out the gate. Is this the right strategy?

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'd say yes.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Dew Spinner
I made a calculator for the Dwarven Bulwark and Shrewdy Shrooms.
www.tinyurl.com/trainingcalc

 

[kctanzen]

Just the military wonders that I am familiar with and not including Simia, since that comes much farther down the line.
Much of this echoes what has already been stated.

Monastery (or Sanctuary for the inferior human cities), with Needles and Bulwark a bit further back on the gotta have it list is very solid advice.
It is surprising what a level 30 Needles can do to make your archers very effective counter troops for those )#&+^)&#+)(*^ Mistwalkers..... == especially if you have a Fire Phoenix and a range hut or two placed.
The secondary Monastery / Sanctuary effect (% added of required culture) can be massive as your city grows and you level it up.

Shrooms, Toads, and Dragon Abbey (special case, since the instant mana if you have a huge pile of spells puts it in another league of space savings).
I would put those in the next tier, with Flying Academy right behind them.

Victory Springs and Hero Forge are two that are on the sketchy list for me if I was to go from scratch -- Victory Springs does help speed up puppy litters however.
Pyramid of Purification is more of a utility wonder the way I see it, even though it produces free treants / paladins.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Best wonders atm (from a tournament based perspective)

Needles of the Storm
has 2 positive effects, it boosts the attack power of your frequently used light ranged units and improves the production rate of barracks units.
By far the best early game wonder.

Martial Monestary (elves) / The Sanctuary (humans)
The Second "good wonder" that you unlock, with the ability to improve there health it empowers every unit in game.
The improved culture bonus becomes very powerfull in late game when use of cul;ture skyrockets.

Prosperity Towers:
With triple production queue's and the spire you always lack supplies, this wonder gives a good amount of supplies in the early game, and combines that with improved supply spells making it the premium supply fixer.

Shrewdy Shrooms:
All that production power and production speed increase has no meaning if you cannot sustain it over a decent time when you are not online. you cannot be always online, as you need to work/sleep/study or have other important RL matters. so you need the ability to stay offline sometimes.
Shrewdy shrooms is the best way to improve your training time.

Flying Academy:
Improves your training speed in the mercenary camp that has some of the best late game units. if you are a human free priests are always welcome

Dragon Abbey:
As ranged units rule supreme in thjis new format a wonder that improves the attack power of your mage units is a welcome addition to your arsenal, the ability to make "mana on demand" is also a fun and very powerfull ability to have.

Temple of the Toads:
Improves the attack power of the last ranges unit type the game has, heavy ranged.
and if you are an elf as well, who does not like free golems

Timewarp:
The ability to have not the game control your scedule but you have control over your tournament tournament scedule is an amazing QoL improvement.

Simia Sapiens:
Improves the production output of the barracks, mercenary camp and the training grounds.

Possible mention:
Victory Springs is a good booster of your training grounds, but it's not certain this will have a net possitive effect due to the lack of good units that do not require orks to make.
In this new format. you can most likely do without.
If you run multiple brown bears + amazing sapiens this balance changes, it even allows you to make a good amount amazing ork strategists for a limited amount of orks as each ork will create multiple copies of strategist. but it's more of an edge case.

Darkhorse:
If all the above still makes you struggle on supplies / gold coins then imagine the neighbourly help wonder which improves your ensorcelled spells, it combines awesomely with the prosperity tower as each improvement on culture bonus is then "tripled" by the power of the supply spell. this creates amazing results that can build up crazy amounds of supplies with only a few workshops.

3 magical workshops are for me often enough to fill up an entire supply stock in only 3 hours with up to 1800K supplies per 3 hours per magical workshop.

Any other wonder:
From a tournament point of vieuw, ignore every other wonder, they will only be detrimental to you gameplay in the long run.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Best wonders atm (from a tournament based perspective)

Needles of the Storm
has 2 positive effects, it boosts the attack power of your frequently used light ranged units and improves the production rate of barracks units.
By far the best early game wonder.

Martial Monestary (elves) / The Sanctuary (humans)
The Second "good wonder" that you unlock, with the ability to improve there health it empowers every unit in game.
The improved culture bonus becomes very powerfull in late game when use of cul;ture skyrockets.

Prosperity Towers:
With triple production queue's and the spire you always lack supplies, this wonder gives a good amount of supplies in the early game, and combines that with improved supply spells making it the premium supply fixer.

Shrewdy Shrooms:
All that production power and production speed increase has no meaning if you cannot sustain it over a decent time when you are not online. you cannot be always online, as you need to work/sleep/study or have other important RL matters. so you need the ability to stay offline sometimes.
Shrewdy shrooms is the best way to improve your training time.

Flying Academy:
Improves your training speed in the mercenary camp that has some of the best late game units. if you are a human free priests are always welcome

Dragon Abbey:
As ranged units rule supreme in thjis new format a wonder that improves the attack power of your mage units is a welcome addition to your arsenal, the ability to make "mana on demand" is also a fun and very powerfull ability to have.

Temple of the Toads:
Improves the attack power of the last ranges unit type the game has, heavy ranged.
and if you are an elf as well, who does not like free golems

Timewarp:
The ability to have not the game control your scedule but you have control over your tournament tournament scedule is an amazing QoL improvement.

Simia Sapiens:
Improves the production output of the barracks, mercenary camp and the training grounds.

Possible mention:
Victory Springs is a good booster of your training grounds, but it's not certain this will have a net possitive effect due to the lack of good units that do not require orks to make.
In this new format. you can most likely do without.
If you run multiple brown bears + amazing sapiens this balance changes, it even allows you to make a good amount amazing ork strategists for a limited amount of orks as each ork will create multiple copies of strategist. but it's more of an edge case.

Darkhorse:
If all the above still makes you struggle on supplies / gold coins then imagine the neighbourly help wonder which improves your ensorcelled spells, it combines awesomely with the prosperity tower as each improvement on culture bonus is then "tripled" by the power of the supply spell. this creates amazing results that can build up crazy amounds of supplies with only a few workshops.

3 magical workshops are for me often enough to fill up an entire supply stock in only 3 hours with up to 1800K supplies per 3 hours per magical workshop.

Any other wonder:
From a tournament point of vieuw, ignore every other wonder, they will only be detrimental to you gameplay in the long run.

Thats list is only if you choose the military path tho.
If you go for cater only I'd say only Tower of provision, Golden Abyss and, mountain halls are needed. So thats only 3 compared to your list of 10 if you choose military path.
Not needed any barrack or armory is also a huge spacesaver.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Thats list is only if you choose the military path tho.
If you go for cater only I'd say only Tower of provision, Golden Abyss and, mountain halls are needed. So thats only 3 compared to your list of 10 if you choose military path.
Not needed any barrack or armory is also a huge spacesaver.

Do not build golden abyss, it ain't worth it. similar with mountain halls.

Btw catering (on a decent level aka way more than 8 provinces) is only possible if you go for a low relic bonus.
Once you get a relic bonus it outpaces your production improvements very very fast.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Best wonders atm (from a tournament based perspective)

Needles of the Storm
has 2 positive effects, it boosts the attack power of your frequently used light ranged units and improves the production rate of barracks units.
By far the best early game wonder.

Martial Monestary (elves) / The Sanctuary (humans)
The Second "good wonder" that you unlock, with the ability to improve there health it empowers every unit in game.
The improved culture bonus becomes very powerfull in late game when use of cul;ture skyrockets.

Prosperity Towers:
With triple production queue's and the spire you always lack supplies, this wonder gives a good amount of supplies in the early game, and combines that with improved supply spells making it the premium supply fixer.

Shrewdy Shrooms:
All that production power and production speed increase has no meaning if you cannot sustain it over a decent time when you are not online. you cannot be always online, as you need to work/sleep/study or have other important RL matters. so you need the ability to stay offline sometimes.
Shrewdy shrooms is the best way to improve your training time.

Flying Academy:
Improves your training speed in the mercenary camp that has some of the best late game units. if you are a human free priests are always welcome

Dragon Abbey:
As ranged units rule supreme in thjis new format a wonder that improves the attack power of your mage units is a welcome addition to your arsenal, the ability to make "mana on demand" is also a fun and very powerfull ability to have.

Temple of the Toads:
Improves the attack power of the last ranges unit type the game has, heavy ranged.
and if you are an elf as well, who does not like free golems

Timewarp:
The ability to have not the game control your scedule but you have control over your tournament tournament scedule is an amazing QoL improvement.

Simia Sapiens:
Improves the production output of the barracks, mercenary camp and the training grounds.

Possible mention:
Victory Springs is a good booster of your training grounds, but it's not certain this will have a net possitive effect due to the lack of good units that do not require orks to make.
In this new format. you can most likely do without.
If you run multiple brown bears + amazing sapiens this balance changes, it even allows you to make a good amount amazing ork strategists for a limited amount of orks as each ork will create multiple copies of strategist. but it's more of an edge case.

Darkhorse:
If all the above still makes you struggle on supplies / gold coins then imagine the neighbourly help wonder which improves your ensorcelled spells, it combines awesomely with the prosperity tower as each improvement on culture bonus is then "tripled" by the power of the supply spell. this creates amazing results that can build up crazy amounds of supplies with only a few workshops.

3 magical workshops are for me often enough to fill up an entire supply stock in only 3 hours with up to 1800K supplies per 3 hours per magical workshop.

Any other wonder:
From a tournament point of vieuw, ignore every other wonder, they will only be detrimental to you gameplay in the long run.

Thanks for this Great advise CrazyWizard!

 

[Dew Spinner]

Do not build golden abyss, it ain't worth it. similar with mountain halls.

Btw catering (on a decent level aka way more than 8 provinces) is only possible if you go for a low relic bonus.
Once you get a relic bonus it outpaces your production improvements very very fast.

This is why this AW issue is so confusing for me. I haven't heard anyone else say do not build GA or MH.