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    Your Elvenar Team

Chapter 1-5 Adjustments

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Yes, I can understand where you are coming from. From doing a new tech tree city, I do not think it will be that much of an issue as the New city will not have access to the older bldgs like the Pilgrim set of the carnival or the many winters sets that older players like myself use to the max. Will it increase the glut of T3 I doubt it, as I think the glut stems from the proliferation of T3 event and production bldgs. As the new cities wont have them it would be a new set of issues that we will see.

Ed
 

Tauriel Dragonwood

Well-Known Member
My brother, Thor Thundercloud, finally reached Chapter 5. Now he can research the Spire of Eternity. It felt like an eternity for him to get to Chapter 5 - only took him 3 months. We’re competing with each other to see who can welcome the Dwarves first. I had a head start because my tech tree had the Spire research in Chapter 3.

But he’s already ahead of me and getting Easy/Medium provinces, while I’m getting Hard/Very Hard provinces. What’s up with that? Maybe the decreased cost of KPs to unlock research from the new tech tree has helped him or maybe I need to build more Armories.
 

BirdyBones

New Member
New player here.
I'm noticing its getting harder for quests that call for trading. I'm finding myself waiting for days for someone to post a trade that I can accept to finish out my quest line that requires it (still waiting!) . The market is just full of mats I don't have, or in amounts I won't be making to much further down the road. It just shows to me that player retention is not so good, or at least beginner level players are non existing?

Also fights are just a no go, everything is at very hard and I haven't finished chapter 2.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
@BirdyBones Are you posting your own trades? Waiting for the right trade to come along isn't the best use of the Trader system; don't be afraid to put up small trades of goods you have in abundance (your boosted goods) for at least 2-star trades of the goods you are in need of. Many higher-level players cruise the trading window looking for these to snap up to help out new cities, so you won't often see those trade offers hanging around.

As for fighting, sounds like you may have over-scouted your map, if you're hitting all Very Hard provinces. Pro tip: try to not scout more provinces than the next chapter requires, and you should stay at Medium or better (I usually stay at Easy and Very Easy). Trouble is, if you've locked yourself into this problem, it's hard to get out of: either you need to make a LOT of troops to make up for the heavy losses you're experiencing, or you need LOTS of goods, supplies and coins to cater your way out. That is still the easier of the 2 paths, though, especially if you're in a good Fellowship who can take unbalanced trades for you to build your inventories.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I'm noticing its getting harder for quests that call for trading. I'm finding myself waiting for days for someone to post a trade that I can accept to finish out my quest line that requires it (still waiting!) . The market is just full of mats I don't have, or in amounts I won't be making to much further down the road. It just shows to me that player retention is not so good, or at least beginner level players are non existing?
You can also shout in the chat to ask some fellowship mates to post some itsy bitsy trades for quest purposes.

Also fights are just a no go, everything is at very hard and I haven't finished chapter 2.
I'm not a new player, but I am playing a new baby city that's currently hanging out in one of the "newbie" fellowships where everyone is a new city. I have a few weeks of tourney and a FA under my belt. I'm trying to be an objective observer and mindful in my analysis that the problems I'm seeing are not because I know how the game fundamentals and what comes next in chapters, etc. So far, I think these early chapter changes are terrible. (Disclaimer: I do not have the new tech tree.)

Our little gang of 9 managed to finish one path on stage 1 during FA and we didn't get any further on stage 2, but finishing stage 1 would be unlikely if I weren't there to direct traffic and explain how things worked. A lot of them had trouble figuring out how to create badges outside workshops and factories, and I don't blame them! The MA is utterly useless early game now. There are not enough spell frags or relics to do anything with it. With the new tech tree, you don't get tourney until Chap 4, so if you *want* to craft, then you have to resort to clearing map provinces for relics! So yeah, it's no wonder new players like @BirdyBones is over-scouted! It took us THREE DAYS to overcome 3 arcane badges. I know how to make an arcane badge, but it still took me probably that long to make one of the 3 arcanes because I need the relics to acquire a CC and then having enough spell frags to craft enough items to tally up to 9 VVs, which took forrrreeeeeverrrrrrr.

Since Inno is herding all the new players together, most of the people don't have access to tourney (chap 4) OR spire (chap 5) to make Ghost badges! It's also hella weird that you're running a dinky chap 2 city with 2 provinces available for tourney but the cities 2x your size can't access tourney yet because they got the new tech tree and haven't unlocked it yet. Half of the FS didn't have access to tourney to do anything with tourney or associated badges.

All in all, I understand new cities aren't expected to finish events too successfully yet, but as things currently exist, everything feels too hard to bother if I were a completely new player. I thought the new tourney relic distribution was to assist new players with acquiring relics easier and the new chap 1-5 adjustments and tech trees are supposed to move them along. Well, it doesn't feel that way at all. It plays like a patchwork of decisions made at different times that don't gel to make any sense. You get funneled into a newbie group at chap 2 and you're still not moving fast enough to be able to do anything when more events come. How are new players supposed to make sense of any of this? I would just elect not to do any tourney, Spire, or FAs moving forward because I think it's too hard and we would spin in place anyway. It wasn't fun. It felt a lot like spinning tires in mud. And if this is your first and only FS experience, which nobody knows what they are doing to be able to get much done, how many people are going to wise up to actually be motivated to try a different fellowship? Bad for the game.

----
Since it's Thanksgiving, these are the unexpected joys of playing with newbies I am thankful for though:
- Someone having a light-bulb moment that they can TRADE for goods after I recommended they scrap their unboosted factories :D
- Getting a daily thank you message from someone because I gave them neighborly help :D
 
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Tauriel Dragonwood

Well-Known Member
@BirdyBones
My brother is a new player too. But unlike me, he is not overscouting so Elvenar is not a struggle for him.
I used to rush in and conquer provinces to get more expansions but that's not the way to play Elvenar.

Look at the research for Advanced Scout at the start of each chapter.
The first number shows how many provinces you have completed.
Only complete the amount of provinces shown by the 2nd number.

Fighting in Easy Provinces makes it so much easier to gain expansions.
Check out this pic he sent me and he's only up to Chapter 5.

Easy Provinces.JPG
 
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crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I've returned to talk more about how much I despise these new early chapter changes.

Fellowship perspective:
As mentioned 2 posts earlier, I spent time incognito in a newbie fellowship for a few months and the experience felt like a slow death spiral. Week by week, the number of tourney participants decreased, even though the pool of players with access increased. The general attitude is we can't get 2 chests anyway and I got this far (chap 4) without doing tournament, so why bother. With little or no group activity, there's very little point in being in a fellowship at all. I have since left this experiment and only one newbie player had the foresight that her current fellowship is going nowhere to follow me out. Everyone else thinks a fellowship getting nothing done is normal because that's all they know. Inno keeps herding new players together.

Archmage perspective:
Now I'm looking at it from the administrative side, having just started a new fellowship recently. As a new FS, we're taking in mostly new players and not competing with established fellowships for existing top talent. I think we have about 5 baby cities that got stuck with the new tech tree so far. Thankfully, I know some of the players behind these baby cities, but a few are completely new to the game so we're just blindly taking a chance on them. It feels reaaaaally weird to kinda chug along and wait 5 chapters to see if they are compatible with our fellowship because they won't have Spire until Chap 5 (we're building a Gold Spire FS). Yes, the new tech tree costs less to get through, but it's still taking them MONTHS to get through. Alternatively, yes, we could just NOT take anyone until they're in Chapter 5, but I feel strongly about giving new players a chance to play in a functional fellowship and it's better to shepherd them towards getting into Spire shape from the start than inheriting a chapter 5 city and changing course to fix bad habits. We know most established fellowships are not giving them the time of day. In fact, we just picked up a chap 3 player who she said she applied to a few FS and was given the cold shoulder for being a itsy bitsy chap 3 city. So thank you, other discriminatory FSs, for passing up on her because your loss is our gain as she's doing almost 10k in tourney in her big city. Fools...HA HA HA!

Player perspective:
Lastly, I think we had 3 small cities start out in the desert and fringe of the world. One of them reported it took him over half a day for someone to come along and grab his trade of 30. That's a bite size trade of 30 goods and not 30 trades! I looked at his map and I recognized a neighbor, but she is no longer playing so all the big cities around him are likely all abandoned cities. The east side of his map is pure desert with no players at all and there are a scattering of tiny cities with no fellowships to his north, likely all newbies. Well no wonder newbie cities are going to try to make their own unboosted goods instead! And guess what? He needed those goods so he can unlock the stupid fellowship tech to join a fellowship so he can survive a desert! Great idea, Inno....let's put new cities in the desert with no support. I do realize new players get city movement priority, but they're still rolling the dice on someone's tolerance to put up with this. It's like a gamble on whether a new player will just quit and give up before they get moved. How's any of this good for the game?
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
I've returned to talk more about how much I despise these new early chapter changes.

Fellowship perspective:
As mentioned 2 posts earlier, I spent time incognito in a newbie fellowship for a few months and the experience felt like a slow death spiral. Week by week, the number of tourney participants decreased, even though the pool of players with access increased. The general attitude is we can't get 2 chests anyway and I got this far (chap 4) without doing tournament, so why bother. With little or no group activity, there's very little point in being in a fellowship at all. I have since left this experiment and only one newbie player had the foresight that her current fellowship is going nowhere to follow me out. Everyone else thinks a fellowship getting nothing done is normal because that's all they know. Inno keeps herding new players together.

Archmage perspective:
Now I'm looking at it from the administrative side, having just started a new fellowship recently. As a new FS, we're taking in mostly new players and not competing with established fellowships for existing top talent. I think we have about 5 baby cities that got stuck with the new tech tree so far. Thankfully, I know some of the players behind these baby cities, but a few are completely new to the game so we're just blindly taking a chance on them. It feels reaaaaally weird to kinda chug along and wait 5 chapters to see if they are compatible with our fellowship because they won't have Spire until Chap 5 (we're building a Gold Spire FS). Yes, the new tech tree costs less to get through, but it's still taking them MONTHS to get through. Alternatively, yes, we could just NOT take anyone until they're in Chapter 5, but I feel strongly about giving new players a chance to play in a functional fellowship and it's better to shepherd them towards getting into Spire shape from the start than inheriting a chapter 5 city and changing course to fix bad habits. We know most established fellowships are not giving them the time of day. In fact, we just picked up a chap 3 player who she said she applied to a few FS and was given the cold shoulder for being a itsy bitsy chap 3 city. So thank you, other discriminatory FSs, for passing up on her because your loss is our gain as she's doing almost 10k in tourney in her big city. Fools...HA HA HA!

Player perspective:
Lastly, I think we had 3 small cities start out in the desert and fringe of the world. One of them reported it took him over half a day for someone to come along and grab his trade of 30. That's a bite size trade of 30 goods and not 30 trades! I looked at his map and I recognized a neighbor, but she is no longer playing so all the big cities around him are likely all abandoned cities. The east side of his map is pure desert with no players at all and there are a scattering of tiny cities with no fellowships to his north, likely all newbies. Well no wonder newbie cities are going to try to make their own unboosted goods instead! And guess what? He needed those goods so he can unlock the stupid fellowship tech to join a fellowship so he can survive a desert! Great idea, Inno....let's put new cities in the desert with no support. I do realize new players get city movement priority, but they're still rolling the dice on someone's tolerance to put up with this. It's like a gamble on whether a new player will just quit and give up before they get moved. How's any of this good for the game?
Doesnt matter what you think, those changes are there for a reason (player retention) and it's working otherwise it would have been reversed a long time ago.

player retention is all that matters and it also benefits us a lot because we need player retention to replenisch those that quit after a (long) while which always happens.
So your POV about what you see as a downside doesnt really matter, lets also be fair.
if you are a newbie fellowship you don't care, your all exploring the game and having fun,
if your a veteran fellowship you do not invite chapter 1-5 players, they can come back when they have grown and learned a bit more.

As of neigbours if players are inactive for 30 days (low chapters after a few days) they are removed from the world map.
Also this also has nothing to do with fellowships. newbies can still join fellowships. and newbies in general are still ignored by top ranked fellowships they often ask to join

"new players" in chapter 1-5 can still help eachother just fin like they have always done. today, tomorrow and in the past 6 years ago when I joined the game, nothing changed there.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Doesnt matter what you think
You can say that for just about everyone's post though. Yet, here we are, freely talking and sharing opinions into an empty void, knowing it does not hold the dev's eyes and ears. Welcome to the forum.

"new players" in chapter 1-5 can still help eachother just fin like they have always done. today, tomorrow and in the past 6 years ago when I joined the game, nothing changed there.
Do they? I spent several months entrenched in a newbie fellowship to watch that they DON'T. Probably 85% of the FS try to make their own unboosted goods. I think I only counted 3 cities in boosted only mode, with me included in that count. They do not list their own trades. They do not participate in FS activities like FAs, tourney, or Spire, which is fine since those are optional. However, again, the number people with access to group events grows, but the number of participants decline over time. Some cities eventually turn into black triangles, but don't get booted bc it's a rookie archmage who doesn't know any better either. With each passing week, there is less and less activity, both individually and as a group. Hence, the experience is a slow death spiral. Doesn't look like players are being retained to me.

As of neigbours if players are inactive for 30 days (low chapters after a few days) they are removed from the world map.
That's my point. They are rolling the dice to see if players are fed up and quit before they get moved. The moves are not instant and inactive players do not immediately get filtered out. 30 days is a whole month of a sticking out a bad situation.

Also this also has nothing to do with fellowships. newbies can still join fellowships. and newbies in general are still ignored by top ranked fellowships they often ask to join
Also my point. They have to unlock fellowship tech now to join a fellowship, whereas previously, players can join a FS right away. Person in the desert has 3 people in his trader today. That's 3 people listing trades total, including people outside his scouted region with fees, none of which he can take because he's still trading in the denominations of 30. Yeah, that's a really fun and playable version of the game. :rolleyes: There are very experienced players that know how to play griping about being stranded in deserts threatening to quit while being backed by fellowships. Why would a new player in a worse situation not quit? It's a ticking clock to see if the new player quits before they get moved. How is that helpful to player retention?
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
@crackie ,
I read your last couple posts and cringed.....
because I add to that, the punishment early
CH cities face with the 50% trade fee....

I'm not in a desert, yet even @ CH6, I still see
most of the trader as 1-star, simply due to that fee.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
You can say that for just about everyone's post though. Yet, here we are, freely talking and sharing opinions into an empty void, knowing it does not hold the dev's eyes and ears. Welcome to the forum.
The reason for this change is obvious. and since it's about new players only what veterans think is just irrelivant. we are not the target autdience of this change. new players are. and for this specific change they just look at retention numbers as those are the only ones that count.
It's this specific change where your opinion of what you think doesnt matter they just look at retention numbers. if they go up. than the change is succesfull.
That's my point. They are rolling the dice to see if players are fed up and quit before they get moved. The moves are not instant and inactive players do not immediately get filtered out. 30 days is a whole month of a sticking out a bad situation.
Players who join and then leave are removed from the world map in days. 1-4 days if not mistaken.
Also my point. They have to unlock fellowship tech now to join a fellowship, whereas previously, players can join a FS right away. Person in the desert has 3 people in his trader today. That's 3 people listing trades total, including people outside his scouted region with fees, none of which he can take because he's still trading in the denominations of 30. Yeah, that's a really fun and playable version of the game. :rolleyes: There are very experienced players that know how to play griping about being stranded in deserts threatening to quit while being backed by fellowships. Why would a new player in a worse situation not quit? It's a ticking clock to see if the new player quits before they get moved. How is that helpful to player retention?
Lol fellowship is the first research in chapter 2. and chapter 1 is very short.
For a new players (who gets all he/she needs in the questline for chapter 1) that doesnt matter.
They do not need to trade a single good during chapter 1.

For who it matters? verts who want to kickstart a new account and have to wait for a little bit to unlock and cannot transfer 20K goods in minute 1 to buy massive KP and trash the chapters in the first hour or so they started the account.
But does that even make sense?
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Are all new towns getting the new tech tree or only new accounts?
Anecdotally, everyone that got the new tech tree are fresh new accounts. However, existing accounts starting new cities in new worlds got old tech tree in my new FS. I do not know if it's a roll of dice or still possible for existing players to get new tech tree.
@crackie ,
I read your last couple posts and cringed.....
because I add to that, the punishment early
CH cities face with the 50% trade fee....

I'm not in a desert, yet even @ CH6, I still see
most of the trader as 1-star, simply due to that fee.
I have had 2 cities start in deserts and it took over a year to be moved. From personal experience, I know you can survive the desert *if* you have a supportive fellowship.

The reason for this change is obvious. and since it's about new players only what veterans think is just irrelivant. we are not the target autdience of this change. new players are. and for this specific change they just look at retention numbers as those are the only ones that count.
It's this specific change where your opinion of what you think doesnt matter they just look at retention numbers. if they go up. than the change is succesfull.
Do veterans not start new cities? Do veterans not interact with new cities? Clearly some chose to sit on their lofty veteran perch and sequester themselves away from the germ factories of infant cities, and they would have that right. In which case, you would be absolutely correct. None of this will bother you at all! Congrats on cootie immunity. But if we're really going to talk about player retention, welcoming new players into your midst, giving them a chance, and mentoring them will do more in the player rentention department than anything else. It also matters not if my opinion is irrelevant to you or even to those of the devs. This thread was started by the Community Manager specifically to discuss the changes of Chapter 1-5, so they are in fact welcoming our comments to this particular topic, at least as far as the forum is concerned. I'm pretty sure the spirit of this thread is not "We want to hear from you, except the veterans because your opinions are irrelevant." Somehow there are 9 pages of discussion that doesn't find their opinions or that of others irrelevant.

Lol fellowship is the first research in chapter 2. and chapter 1 is very short.
For a new players (who gets all he/she needs in the questline for chapter 1) that doesnt matter.
They do not need to trade a single good during chapter 1.
And then what happens after they unlock fellowships? Inno shepherds them into fellowships with other newbies by limiting the fellowships they can choose from. Then yay, no one still knows how to trade only boosted goods, they'll still starve in the desert, and you still get a death spiral experience.

For the record, I do know how to sprint the early chapters. However, this is about observing how new players play both individually and as a group by entrenching in a FS with them and watching them do their thing without unduly influencing them one way or another. Will these players have big brothers and sisters dump bountiful crates of goods on them to generally move things along? No, because they're hanging out with other broke early chapter cities while being led by another clueless early chapter city for an archmage.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
I would think that seeing these changes took place in May of 2022 and nothing has changed with the changes, then Inno is happy with the retention results and not much will change from here on out. @crackie maybe you can make a Scroll Keeper about FSs, letting players know that their initial FS choices will be limited but after joining a FS they will be able to see a lot more FS options that would most likely suit them better. Are the initial poor selection limitations the same after actually joining a FS or can you then search through tons of FSs?
 
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Mykan

Oh Wise One
Anecdotally, everyone that got the new tech tree are fresh new accounts. However, existing accounts starting new cities in new worlds got old tech tree in my new FS. I do not know if it's a roll of dice or still possible for existing players to get new tech tree.
I found the same with a fellowship in US2 with existing players starting on a new world. Maybe its an account thing, probably easier from a coding aspect.
 

Maeryn

Active Member
If your account had the old tech tree then that’s all that will show up if you start in a new world on that account. One problem with the new tech tree is this inno is guiding all new players to create a fighting city right off the bat meaning inno is teaching goods aren’t a priority troops are. Secondly, at some point you just have to park somewhere for a bit and carry out upgrades or risk finishing off your upgrades in guest races not
ideal.

By the way, I recommend at least in the beginning to put down 3 tier 3 factories the huge stockpile doesn’t exist with the new tech tree.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I would think that seeing these changes took place in May of 2022 and nothing has changed with the changes, then Inno is happy with the retention results and not much will change from here on out.
All may be true, but I will knowingly discuss the shortcomings of the US tax system while fully understanding it is unlikely they will pass legislation to change the tax code, so I don't see why you'd have to stop talking about Chap 1-5 changes just because it's been implemented in May. Inno's timeline moves at the same glacial pace as some of those late chapters anyway. Sometimes even when they make glaring mistakes (see also: FA), they'll still commit to the bad ideas and force the players to endure it anyway. Hence, I'm not really all that concerned with when things are implemented. It took them years to fix the horrible neighborly help UI on browser. I mean, who thought they'd overhaul the first 5 chapters to begin with, right? If they felt the first 5 chapters needed overhaul, that's fine and good, but that means they've now opened the door to also be able to keep tweaking it. Maybe they will change something and maybe they won't. That's not up to me. Regardless, this is a thread specific to the topic and I'm logging my findings. Heck, it's even pinned! Also, a lot of archmages read the forums. Maybe some are still unaware of how the new tech tree works or the potential snags new players are facing. @Mykan has been around forever+ and is a solid source of game knowledge, but still had a good question to ask that many others are probably wondering as well.
@crackie maybe you can make a Scroll Keeper about FSs, letting players know that their initial FS choices will be limited but after joining a FS they will be able to see a lot more FS options that would most likely suit them better. Are the initial poor selection limitations the same after actually joining a FS or can you then search through tons of FSs?
I'm not sure how many newbies know the forum exists, even if that info is available. It's definitely not the topic for the scrolls I maintain so if enough people think this is a good idea, we can pester the appropriate Scroll Keeper. While in an existing FS on mobile, you see the Top 50 and the 2 FS above and below your current FS like everyone else. However, we've already established most Top 50 teams aren't letting newbies in. If they started in a newbie fellowship and are only seeing the 4 adjacents, then those offerings are probably not going to fare much better. You can also search for specific fellowship, but if you're new to the game, you probably also wouldn't use that function. On browser, you would have access to browse the whole FS listing, but when you're not in a fellowship and trying to search for one, it also only suggests the same meager offerings. I mean, most of us didn't land in the right fitting fellowship on our first try, or probably even the second or third tries. But take the shackles off. Give them more options to browse from instead of just newbie fellowships. A lot of archmages will argue existing fellowships need fresh recruits and free promotions too.
 

Astram

Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
...maybe you can make a Scroll Keeper about FSs, letting players know that their initial FS choices will be limited but after joining a FS they will be able to see a lot more FS options that would most likely suit them better. Are the initial poor selection limitations the same after actually joining a FS or can you then search through tons of FSs...
Fellowship information is here ; however, if you feel something is missing, please contact the Scroll Keeper for that thread and give your input.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
All may be true, but I will knowingly discuss the shortcomings of the US tax system while fully understanding it is unlikely they will pass legislation to change the tax code, so I don't see why you'd have to stop talking about Chap 1-5 changes just because it's been implemented in May. Inno's timeline moves at the same glacial pace as some of those late chapters anyway. Sometimes even when they make glaring mistakes (see also: FA), they'll still commit to the bad ideas and force the players to endure it anyway. Hence, I'm not really all that concerned with when things are implemented. It took them years to fix the horrible neighborly help UI on browser. I mean, who thought they'd overhaul the first 5 chapters to begin with, right? If they felt the first 5 chapters needed overhaul, that's fine and good, but that means they've now opened the door to also be able to keep tweaking it. Maybe they will change something and maybe they won't. That's not up to me. Regardless, this is a thread specific to the topic and I'm logging my findings. Heck, it's even pinned! Also, a lot of archmages read the forums. Maybe some are still unaware of how the new tech tree works or the potential snags new players are facing. @Mykan has been around forever+ and is a solid source of game knowledge, but still had a good question to ask that many others are probably wondering as well.

I'm not sure how many newbies know the forum exists, even if that info is available. It's definitely not the topic for the scrolls I maintain so if enough people think this is a good idea, we can pester the appropriate Scroll Keeper. While in an existing FS on mobile, you see the Top 50 and the 2 FS above and below your current FS like everyone else. However, we've already established most Top 50 teams aren't letting newbies in. If they started in a newbie fellowship and are only seeing the 4 adjacents, then those offerings are probably not going to fare much better. You can also search for specific fellowship, but if you're new to the game, you probably also wouldn't use that function. On browser, you would have access to browse the whole FS listing, but when you're not in a fellowship and trying to search for one, it also only suggests the same meager offerings. I mean, most of us didn't land in the right fitting fellowship on our first try, or probably even the second or third tries. But take the shackles off. Give them more options to browse from instead of just newbie fellowships. A lot of archmages will argue existing fellowships need fresh recruits and free promotions too.
I understand everything you are saying and agree but we all know Inno doesn't seem to listen to player feedback. Inno received a TON of negative feedback on Beta about the Cauldron and changed absolutely nothing from Beta to Live, even though anyone can figure out you will eventually increase your costs to the point you will not have enough Witch Pts to brew anything and then it will be a dead feature. So, I wish you luck in getting anything changed about this matter.
 
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