Chapter 20, The Power of Music - Discussion

[Yogi Dave]

6 of each maker. Although I had to reduce the violins to get the 18 ensembles in which meant I needed 8 (or 9?) of them to keep up with song production once I could sell them. I used the unicorn song exclusively once it was available. BTW, I did the storyline quests. To me they are another fun part of a chapter.

 

[vermp]

I have upgraded my Harmony Grove to level 4.
Is it okay to sell all of my Ensembles now? If so, will I still have the "40% boost" of bars?
(Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I couldn't find the info.) Thanks.

 

[vermp]

I forgot about the above. In essence it turns out it doesn't matter to me. Not a chance I would have not upgraded my Armories. It's all good for my purposes since I cater the Spire and am not really big on the Tournament. 5000 points is fine for me and I can do that easily. I did choose this game largely because I didn't have to battle. I just auto-battle the tournament.

Does anybody know if you have to keep all 6 of each ensemble after the Grove is updated to level 4? Other than boosting bars production, which I'm all good using PP spells, I'm not seeing a reason they can't be sold after the last upgrade. I just want to verify whether or not I can sell them off because I really, really do not want to rebuild them if I need to keep 6 of each.

Has this been answered? Does one lose the 40% boost if the Ensembles are sold?

 

[Deborah M]

Has this been answered? Does one lose the 40% boost if the Ensembles are sold?

Nope. I just kept them all. Not worth the risk of needing them or slowing down because of not having them.

 

[vermp]

I went ahead and deleted all of them and everything is the same! Nothing bad happened.
I did have a huge display of PPs as a back-up safety net.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I immediately deleted 3. Then after the storyline quest to have 15 ensembles, I deleted the rest of them. You do lose the 40% production bonus from each one deleted. Since I only used PPs for bar production, that wasn't a problem for me. Yay PPs!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I immediately deleted 3. Then after the storyline quest to have 15 ensembles, I deleted the rest of them. You do lose the 40% production bonus from each one deleted. Since I only used PPs for bar production, that wasn't a problem for me. Yay PPs!

I thought there was supposed to be a quest to have all 18 ensembles out?

 

[Yogi Dave]

I thought there was supposed to be a quest to have all 18 ensembles out?

Nope. Quest #73 is for 15. It comes after all 3 of the T1 Tech quests and before the quest for the level 4 Harmony Grove, #76. Although I had it to level 4 before reaching #73.

 

[iamthouth]

@Nightguest I'm finding a few differences between Elvenarchitect and the in-game graphics for Ch20 upgrades of buildings. I am guessing that Elvenarchitect is reading the game files, which is why perhaps the graphics are not updated? Though I'm not sure, and haven't gotten to ch20 yet to test it, so haven't reported yet.
Examples include Flourishing Nut Cave, Festive Fountain and Forbidden Ruins, which show a population or production increase, but not culture increase in-game from Ch19 to Ch20, but does show culture increase on Elvenarchitects reading of game files.

Genie and Goddess of Wishes are the same, the building upgrade tab shows no increase in culture, but EA does, and I'd expect one.

Edit: Rectified in later update 27 October 2022.

 

[iamthouth]

So Ch20 here we go. Finished Ch19 last research 26 Oct 2022, and first research Ch20 on 27 Oct 2022.

Research plan at opening, getting the extra expansions for more space, and workshops and residences last as I have all Magic residences and workshops. Will also finish 620 provinces, to gain expansion no. 2, and hopefully buy 2 discounted expansions in the Black Friday sales for 4 total expansions to help with space requirements for this chapter.


Current layout in Elvenarchitect, which has temporary roads and seeds buildings, and are a little muddled from the workshop upgrade. I had saved up blueprints to immediately upgrade all the magic residences and magic workshops to Ch20.



Chapter 20, including optional research totals 5435 KP required for research. Whilst that is the 2nd highest (only beaten by Ch16), it looks on paper to be a faster chapter than Ch19, which is good. The biggest resource challenge seems to be seeds by far, because I will use portal profits to produce all the bars, thus saving me mana.

I will mostly remove mana producers, and teleport them back in for the Main Hall upgrade (3.4m), the Harmony Grove Upgrade 2 (2.4m) + 3 (2.8m) +4 (3.3m), and the later chapter Basic Mfg upgrades (1.8m each).

I have enough gold instants and supplies instants to cover the Maker (100m gold, 3.8m supplies each) and Ensemble (3.8m each) costs, placing of course 1+2+3 of 3 types of Ensembles (18 total). I am unsure how many makers I can support with the three types of sentient goods, but aiming for 4, 5 or 6 of each.

So, seeds. Each maker requires 127K to construct, and each ensemble requires 127K each to construct. So ensembles are 127K*18=2,286K seeds. Makers are 127K * 3 types * 4<>6 each = 1,524K<>2,286K seeds. In addition are the seeds costs for making sentient goods, a bit over 4 mill total. Then, seeds are also required to upgrade the refined manufactories (100K each) and armories (100K each). Will see how I go and how many makers I can support.

Should be ok on Unurium though nearly 10m required for the chapter. This chapter also requires relatively few orcs, 972K for the ensembles and 125K for the Barracks , so will remove Orc Nests, leaving only Armories as producers.

Current production per day is as below, with inventory at time of writing in brackets.
Orcs 36,400 [476k]
Mana 1,160,120 [5.6m]
Seeds 242,344 [223k]
Unurium 313,758 [946k]

Vortex of Storage and Blooming Trader are both lvl 31. Timewarp (for sentient boost) is also lvl 32. I haven't built the Simia Sapiens.
I have 1+2+3 sentient manufactories.

I have commenced levelling the Tree of Englightenment for the ascended goods boosts, but it is only at lvl 3 so far.
I have a lvl 32 ascended precious manufactory in inventory, ready to deploy when I finish the Genius Granule production boost research.
I have only 1 of each ascended manufactories.

I am on quest number 10.

I will post regular updates as I move through the chapter.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 2. I have been looking and looking and looking for a layout. Presenting 185 roads with 6 makers each and full ensemble set. I'm not there yet, this is for about halfway through the chapter. I still have a little bit of room for a couple of other buildings or culture. Remains to be seen if I can support 6 makers of each with resources. You'll notice I have no roads to the edge of the map, and I get the settlement and longest buildings against the edge. I finished 620 provinces, and placed that expansion.

I had thought, and have placed, the ensembles as if each ensemble type needed to connect to the Harmony Grove, but I've learnt through a fellow player that only 1 ensemble of any type needs to be connected, and you can then have a mix of ensembles connected in a chain. This provides more layout options.


I am on quest 14. I also changed the research order a little when I discovered the Happy Forest Homes, which are better than Overgrown Libraries for seeds, and also provide population. I beelined there, then went back and did Silk upgrade (my Ascended goods) and Crystal upgrade (my Standard goods), and now trading to have enough Ascended Basic goods for the workshop research. I will do the optionals as well when I'm earning KP and can't progress in research.


So I swapped out the Overgrown Libraries, my old Ch18 Festival Merchants, Ch15 Amuni Ships and Botanikums, which all had lower seeds per tile per hour than the new Happy Forest Homes. I kept Ch19 Festival Merchants. I also swapped the trader from Unurium to Seeds during the event, as my Temple of Spirits is providing enough Unurium. Seed production is now up to 365K per day, and I've spent 800K to upgrade my Refined Manufactories, and will need another 400K for the armories, and then 127K for each of the makers.

I will build the makers 1 of each type at a time, rotating, so I can see how I fare with the resources to feed them.

I have kept mana produces for now, and produced Bars in the Harmony Grove, only topping up with Portal Profits when I'm ready to complete a research.

Tree of Enlightenment is now lvl 5. I don't have the Elvenar Trade Centre, but I can see how that would be very useful this chapter, in boosting the Ascended Goods Production with better Magical Manufactoring, and also provide more seeds.

I will most likely place the Witch Doctor from this current event if I get enough artifacts, as it has good mana production per tile. I also aimed for the daily reward today, Headless Halloween, which is 1000 population per tile. I won 10 and this let me remove my Ch19 Crab Hotel Deluxe (850 per tile).

Happy to hear any guidance on progressing through the chapter.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 3.
I reorganised my city to see the buildings better last week, in the previous layout some were a bit hidden that I wasn't comfortable with. Costs me about 5 roads, but less chance of missing production buildings. I have prepared the layout to have space for the trader and armories upgrades, and have low buildings at the front, tall buildings at the back.

New layout now:


I didn't listen to my own advice, and built six of each maker as soon as I finished each research, rather then wait to build one of each at a time. A goal of mine is to finally reach the end of the last chapter before the next release, so I have to have good maker production to advance. A senior player in my fellowship is doing fine with one of each, I often see three or four of each. I took @Yogi Dave 's advice to go with six of each.

But for the makers, their costs and return when you sell them is vastly different, so it is better to not overbuild.


I have been using a fair bit of coins- and supplies-instants and portal profits, but reminding myself that I do keep earning them back, and I will have enough in the long run, even if stockpiles are reducing.

I have also kept my mana producers for now, and are using mana to make bars, but when I complete the next research I will need to remove some mana producers along my gem manufactories so I can place the flute makers.


Doing fine on resources, including seeds with my high production. With Timewarp 32 and Vortex of Storage 31 my sentient production is so good that I can afford to rest those manufactories if I need seeds as well.

Switched trader back to unurium production for a while too. I am using Royal Restorations to upgrade high seeds or mana producers, and I am grabbing any Festival Merchant for Lvl 20 that comes up in the Magic Academy. I placed the Witch Doctor, which has good Mana per tile per hour.

Production per day:
Orcs 31,600
Mana 1,245,500
Seeds 292,452
Unurium 315,998

I am on quest 32.

 

[Magjada]

Settlement resources, portal profits give you Bars, image thanks to @Angeduciel. Portal profits become very useful in this chapter, saving lots of Mana and Unurium. Seeds become important as you need 127K per Settlement building, and you need 18 ensembles, plus instrument makers (Violin, Flute and Drum).
View attachment 13540

Ascended Precious goods names, image thank to @Lovec Krys. Lots of Ascended Basic and Ascended Refined Goods needed, and also lots of Sentient goods needed. No basic goods needed for research, but are needed to make sentient and ascended goods.
View attachment 13541

The upgrade costs of buildings in Ch20 is listed in ElvenArchitect.

You don't necessarily need all those ensembles. I got through the chapter with 4 of each by having a Vortex at level 13. That certainly saved a lot of space and resources.

 

[Yogi Dave]

You don't necessarily need all those ensembles. I got through the chapter with 4 of each by having a Vortex at level 13. That certainly saved a lot of space and resources.

True, but if you like to do the chapter quests, you need to upgrade the portal to level 4.

 

[iamthouth]

@Magjada that is a good point, and with Vortex lvl 31 I could certainly skip quest 73 and 76. But if I understand correctly it would mean wait until Ch21 is released before I could decline the mandatory quest. Will I then also get the remainder of the Ch20 quests up, so that I can earn the diamonds from quests 78 and 87?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@iamthouth I only have the two Wonder researches left to do and have my Vortex at a high enough level to complete them with a level 3 portal. My plan is to teleport the nine ensembles I have out currently, then build the other three of each that are needed to get through the quests and get the portal to level 4. Once I have all 18 built, I will teleport some workshops or factories or whatever, to make room for all 18 ensembles at one time, and then level up the portal and finish off the quests. No way am I waiting several more months with those quests staring at me. Besides, I am one of those players who believes in completing all quests in the first city to get to a new chapter, so I won't be skipping any of them in my main city.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week four. I have used some coins instants for KP this week to jump along, as I had built up enough resources for several upgrades.

I researched and placed City Expansion 56, upgraded Main Hall, Trader and Armories. I also put back in my pre-upgraded Lvl 33 Ascended Precious Mfg (Dust for me), and upgraded it to lvl 34. I placed 5 flute makers, but to be honest, all my makers have sat empty once I produced enough to reach Harmony Grove Upgrades. Once that is reached, and I get the higher production bonus, I will keep using the makers, so at present 6/6/5 of each seems an overinvestment. But that might change once I start producing Songs, as they require many more Violins, Flutes and Drums.

Research progressed well due to using my coin instant stockpile, but trades for Ascended Goods is slow, and adding to the time it takes to complete research.


Layout below, I removed my Manta Boats, Manta Rays, Flourishing Nut Cave and some Lava Eggs (all mana) and placed another two Happy Forest Homes for seeds. Unurium stock is also tighter now that I use more for Ascended Precious Goods as well and I continue to use the trader for Unurium.


I am on quest 46, but have the next few quests already covered. I will follow the quests I think.


I continue to upgrade the Tree of Enlightenment for the Ascended Goods boost, and I upgraded the Sunset Towers for the seeds.

I look forward to start the Harmony Grove Upgrades now, and before that a slight reorganisation for upgraded Elixir and Gem Mfgs (though each of my 7 need 200K Unurium, so it will take time). The Unurium producing Married Forest Home upgrades come in the later stage of the chapter. Choice now is to use Broken Dragon Statues, the occasional Glory of the Nimble Unurium win, or wait for the next event for the Temple of Spirits event pickup boost.

For Black Friday I am hoping they will offer the 20% discount on Expansions again, I have diamonds saved up for two more premium expansions.

Production per day:
38,000 Orcs
938,100 Mana
310,052 Seeds
208,869 Unurium (not quite sure why this number is now lower, I must have corrected an earlier calculation mistake I think, or perhaps I was factoring in event pickups which this number does not reflect).

I am balancing resources ok still. With all the building upgrades requiring seeds now completed, I just need seeds for the ensembles and producing sentient goods. The mana producers I took away I teleported out, so I can place them back in when needed.

With all my Magic buildings upgraded to Ch20, I am collecting blueprints for Ch21.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I finished all the research yesterday, so now I am just saving up resources to build all the ensembles needed for the level 4 portal upgrade, to be done after the FA is over.

 

[nsaplay78]

trying to upgrade my harmony grove to level 3. Says I need 2 each of the stuff provided by the 3 different ensembles. I have 2 of each constructed, but on the upgrade screen for the harmory grove, its still red for all of them as if I didnt have enough. When I hover over one of the 3 types in the upgrade screen (melody for example) it says total melody 2, required 1, available 1. The only thing the 1st of each was needed for was to upgrade the grove to level 2. So there just being used for the same buildign im trying to upgrade. Is that an error, or do I actually need 3 of each to reach level 3 on the harmony grove even tho it says I only need 2

 

[Yogi Dave]

trying to upgrade my harmony grove to level 3. Says I need 2 each of the stuff provided by the 3 different ensembles.

It is confusing in the documentation. You need to have in the city 3 of each for the upgrade. 1 for the 1st upgrade and 2 more for the 2nd. To get to level 4 you will need 6 of each in the city at the same time.