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    Your Elvenar Team

Cities looking like slums now

DeletedUser1016

Guest
Bobbykitty said:
I quote: "...genius experiments with, to later use on ... the Orcs!"
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Bobbykitty said:
Another quote: "You just need to find a way to .... let's say ... manipulate them!"
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WOW.... Really Bobbykitty - you actually found these quotes in the Orc-Gobline race descriptions created by InnoGames??? I am honestly shocked! I know some games out in the market can be brutal, violent, crass, obscene, etc, etc, etc...but usually you purchase those for your personal use...but to put this out there for the general public!!! - I don't know, seems irresponsible... To be honest, I'm really not offended, but I can see other folks not being thrilled to let their kids play!

Bobbykitty said:
We are currently fighting to END these kinds of ugly ideas in our society, we sure as heck don't want them brought as part of "fun
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Bobbykitty said:
It sure wouldn't take much to change some text in the game in order not to be so offensive. I can't imagine why anyone would fight it so.
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"DITTO"

Bobbykitty said:
Welcome both of you and thank you for jumping in! I know the forums can seem scary, but we so need your voices!! :)
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Yes...I welcome you too, the more the merrier and you both articulate really well...please don't be shy.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
I didn't have to look far Osideglen....those descriptions are in the wiki: https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Orcs_&_Goblins

I find it bizarre that they would try to backpeddle and claim the orcs aren't slaves, when that is exactly what they are. They are a race of brutes that we get to breed more in our armories so we can conduct experiments on finding just the right drug to control them. Then, we trade or send those mind controlled sentient beings as negotiated costs for clearing sectors of provinces and to upgrade our workshops and we even need need to trade them so that we can make more mushroom concoctions.

A lot of folks are very sensitive to race and religious and drug issues and feel very strongly about not promoting these icky concepts even in a fantasy game. Maybe especially in a fantasy game.
 

DeletedUser1987

Guest
I would like to add that I think the poll asking people what new races they wanted to see was very... misleading.

Yes, everyone voted for orcs. But, I have to wonder, if you'd done a separate poll, asking people what they associate with orcs... I don't think people would have voted dung and slavery and mind altering mushrooms. When I think of orcs, I think of a military race, with lots of weapon and war machine inspired cultural objects. I actually don't have a problem with the Elven residences, to me they look the way I'd expect an orc building to look. At least, the lvl 20 ones do, the person with Elven orc level residences on Khelonaar hasn't upgraded theirs to 21 yet. But the armories have become stables? That just doesn't make sense. And all the mushrooms everywhere are absolutely not what I was thinking of when I saw the option for orcs.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
InnoGames by no means invented Orcs out of whole cloth. If you have Orcs at all, you have to respect well established lore.
Orcs are aggressive scavengers and opportunistic carnivores (with a taste for both in-species cannibalism and human flesh). While possessing a low cunning and crude culture of their own, they are generally portrayed as a subject race used as soldiers (or battle fodder) by beings of greater power and intelligence. Violent by nature, they will fight ferociously if compelled or directed by a guiding will, but tend towards more chaotic behavior (including cowardice) if left to their own devices.
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Our player base has been asking for Orcs for a very long time; here's a link from the closed beta, more than a year ago.
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/more-races-orcs-dwarves-or-undead.712/
  • Orcs were very much favored as one of the Guest Races
  • Orcs have an establish lore that's 3000 years old
  • They're a nice contrast to the Fairies.
You can certainly argue that Orcs should never have been included, but if they ARE included then they SHOULD be recognizable AS Orcs, and InnoGames has delivered just that.
 

DeletedUser1987

Guest
Funny how none of that says anything about mushrooms everywhere.

Edit: I will admit to being biased against mushrooms of any kind. Mushrooms freak me out when I look at them. I cannot stand the sight of them. But I still cannot see any mention of mushrooms being tied to orcs. There's no reason anyone voting for orcs would assume that this meant mushrooms would infest their cities. Again, I have no problem with the residence buildings. I have a problem with all the mushroom and dung heap related buildings.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
Katwijk said:
InnoGames by no means invented Orcs out of whole cloth. If you have Orcs at all, you have to respect well established lore.


Our player base has been asking for Orcs for a very long time; here's a link from the closed beta, more than a year ago.
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/more-races-orcs-dwarves-or-undead.712/
  • Orcs were very much favored as one of the Guest Races
  • Orcs have an establish lore that's 3000 years old
  • They're a nice contrast to the Fairies.
You can certainly argue that Orcs should never have been included, but if they ARE included then they SHOULD be recognizable AS Orcs, and InnoGames has delivered just that.
Click to expand...


You said "our player base has been asking for Orcs for a very long time". Did you actually read that entire thread? The initial proposal was made by a player who can't be found in Beta any longer. It was seconded by a current active player (although Inno should take note that his city is Zero $). The remainder of the discussion centers around the theoretical discussion of additional races in general - not around the desirability of Orcs per se. This thread isn't a support for the selection of Orcs as the next guest race, it's another of your deflections.

But if Inno was determined to go with Orcs, the designers - given the latitude they have taken in inventing their own unique version of Orc lore - could have kept in mind that this is supposed to be a builders' game. They could have opted for architectural grandeur rather than dung-inspired thatch. Think Stonehenge. Orcs could have been a primal force, not a slave race managed by forced addictions, living in dung and thatch and dirt. Monoliths would have been appealing after the violent violets of Fairy.
 

DeletedUser1987

Guest
Thank you for posting bobbipiazza. I came back just now with another addition I wanted to add to my original post, but it seemed a bit late to edit.

Rather than simply asking what guest races we want to see next, I think Inno should ask us what architectural elements we want to see next. Giant towers? Solid blocky buildings? Lots of trees? Lots of crystalline things?

If you told me to sit down and draw Orc related buildings, mushrooms would not factor into my calculations at all. If we get dark elves... when I think dark elves, I think underground splendor and glowing lights. Lots of reds and violets and blacks. Also lots of spiders, because I read Forgotten Realms books like crazy. Is that Inno's idea of what a dark elf is? To me, undead are grey and decrepit, with some purples, lots of bones, and lots of crypt like buildings. With glowy blue lights, because I play World of Warcraft and therefore think undead and glowy blue lights go together wonderfully. I am certain Inno's developers wouldn't agree with me there because I'm coming from a completely different background than them. Inno's idea of what an orc is is obviously not the monoliths I was envisioning when I saw the orcs as an option in the survey. Maybe a better thing to do would be to give us a selection of architecture types, unrelated to guest race names, and fit the guest race to the architecture after we vote for what we want in our cities.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
I don't care if five hundred people personally asked the devs to set up a nazi themed race, it wouldn't be appropriate content for a game such as this. They could easily have had orcs without all the slavery/experimenting on beings/and drug content. That kind of content is offensive. We don't want to be slave traders. We don't want to build camps er armories where we breed more orcs to be experimented on and then traded like all other goods. And don't give me this absurdity that the orcs are "guardians" going off to guard our provinces....yeah sure. That explanation doesn't hold water. We also use orc slaves to as one of the "costs" of upgrading a workshops along with coins and supplies. They aren't guards, they are goods and the explanation from the wiki proves it.

Here is where they say the goblins are doing experiments on the orcs, just as one group mentioned earlier in this post did on others:


And after the have just the right concoction of psychoshroom drugs they will then turn them into slaves to work in your city.



https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Orcs_&_Goblins

I don't WANT any creatures being controlled with things that I have to make in my city. I don't want to spread the principles of using slavery as a way to get my city bigger. I think that is a very bad concept, an evil concept even, completely despicable and abhorrent. If you can't make orcs part of the game without bringing those concepts in, then they should have picked another race.

And fyi.....I have been warned I would be banned for wanting to free the orcs and end that despicable content. Banned from these forums. For wanting to STOP slavery as being a part of this game. Though, it was perfectly allowed on another forum to have the whole thread there, the same post here was DELETED by a moderator. So don't tell me I did anything wrong or posted inappropriate content. All I did was discuss a storyline in the game. https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/free-the-orcs.5333/
 

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DeletedUser1987

Guest
This is true, and if they actually wanted to make a round of primitive buildings... why not have the orcs fleeing through the portal to our cities, to escape the goblins? That explains the primitive buildings, with no need for dung or mind controlling mushrooms.
 

DeletedUser1987

Guest
But they never gave any indication that orcs = mushrooms and dung. The name of a guest race is just that... a name. Honestly, fairies are more mushroom related, at least in my mind, than orcs are. It's easy to vote for something and not know what you're getting.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
Katwijk, it is irrelevant who voted or who didn't. It is even irrelevant that they didn't tell us what people were voting for. What is relevant is that they have included slavery and drugs and experiments on beings. They can change that language and construct and still have the orcs here. Unless you want to support slavery?
 
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DeletedUser1987

Guest
I figured this thread should be about the appearance of the slum buildings, and another thread can be about the implications of slavery. Even if you remove the implications of slavery... that still doesn't change the fact that the buildings look horrible. Mushroom farms smell vile. I cannot imagine why the citizens of my city, after building up homes that are so elegant, would want something so horribly smelling in the middle of their city.
 
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Maz Mellor

Maz Mellor

Well-Known Member
Bobbykitty said:
I don't care if five hundred people personally asked the devs to set up a nazi themed race, it wouldn't be appropriate content for a game such as this. They could easily have had orcs without all the slavery/experimenting on beings/and drug content. That kind of content is offensive. We don't want to be slave traders. We don't want to build camps er armories where we breed more orcs to be experimented on and then traded like all other goods. And don't give me this absurdity that the orcs are "guardians" going off to guard our provinces....yeah sure. That explanation doesn't hold water. We also use orc slaves to as one of the "costs" of upgrading a workshops along with coins and supplies. They aren't guards, they are goods and the explanation from the wiki proves it.

I don't WANT any creatures being controlled with things that I have to make in my city. I don't want to spread the principles of using slavery as a way to get my city bigger. I think that is a very bad concept, an evil concept even, completely despicable and abhorrent. If you can't make orcs part of the game without bringing those concepts in, then they should have picked another race.
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I agree with all of this, and I am grateful to Bobbykitty for being the one to say it most openly and vocally. It seems talking about this aspect of the game carries some risk, in spite of the devs' insistence that they want our feedback, and in spite of our good intentions (i.e., as loyal players of the game who have invested time, energy, and—in many cases—money in it).

Caanna said:
I figured this thread should be about the appearance of the slum buildings, and another thread can be about the implications of slavery. Even if you remove the implications of slavery... that still doesn't change the fact that the buildings look horrible. Mushroom farms smell vile. I cannot imagine why the citizens of my city, after building up homes that are so elegant, would want something so horribly smelling in the middle of their city.
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This seems fair, given the thread title. It does seem odd to have a city builder game where your city gets cooler and cooler and then becomes a slum. I mean, I guess even ancient Rome got sacked by the Gauls or the Goths every once in a while, but still. o_O I expect I'll be holding my nose through the Orcs & Goblins chapter... almost literally.
 

DeletedUser2753

Guest
A comment about Cities becoming slums:

Lets start with the foundation of the game and its general design concepts. When I think about guest races I think about putting up someone in a spare bedroom, not having them dominate a whole city. What ever happened to the Humans and Elves we were asked to chose and 5 chapters of progressive play, 6 months or more. Let guests be guests, have settlements OK, but stop there but NO, guest races changed everything.

The whole character of the game changed from a city building game to replace all of your built city based on domination by dwarfs, fairies and now Orcs.

Is this any longer a city building game really?
 
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DeletedUser61

Guest
City building games usually are identifiable by one or more of the following traits:
  • Main gameplay map is the city or town itself.
  • The city or town mentioned are usually already owned or may only be developed by the player.
  • Any form of opposition usually is located off-map.
  • Manual strategic placement of roads, structures or other buildings.
  • Manual management of citizen demands.
  • Trade and taxation, usually micro economics.
  • Upgrading options for structures and buildings.
  • Manipulation and exploitation of surrounding resources.
See http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/genre-simulation-city-building

duck.jpg
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ...
it's probably a duck.

See https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2#q=duck test
It's also worth considering the mission of the group that is capitalizing the InnoGames venture.
Eight Roads Ventures Europe provides capital to ambitious, fast-growing technology companies.
- See https://eightroads.com/en/ventures/europe

The people who work at Eight Roads are ambitious, passionate and innovative; our natural curiosity means we thrive on discovering insights, rooting out investment themes and nurturing new concepts, often on a single theme such as food and agriculture or biosciences. We respond to change and react to opportunities with informed confidence and speed.
- See https://eightroads.com/en/about
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