Dwarven Armorer

[muffy.]

“We clearly didn’t make a big enough mess.”




Then what ya waitin for ??

 

[The Fairy]

Sorry, I should have answered earlier, but somehow didn't manage to

@Astram, I would like to say how much I appreciate that you are trying to keep the forum in the same spirit as when Helya was CM. I feel you care about us players and want to help us, and try to ensure that the forum is also still a fun place to be!

You may have made a mistake here, but your intent was good! And I don't think it would have changed the result of the vote, I can't see the no-voters getting 52 more votes in the last day (I was one of the no-voters). But please remember, the only ones who don't make mistakes are the persons who never do anything! And I really don't want forum moderators or community managers that don't do anything.

 

[studuckxx]

Bad idea this makes the tourney much easier for those that already rule it. it's like tax breaks for the wealthy who do not need it anyway.

The 1 good part of the +9 chests is that the prizes are more for honour than that they are so good you need them.
In essence they are mostly useless (and yes my FS get's those 19 often enough)

btw dwarven armourers arent that difficult to get, you just need to do the spire top the top every week and they will come your way.
You just need to make sure you do not overspend them in times of many so you have something in the bad weeks.

I use 1 DA every 2 weeks and they are lasting for as long as I can imagine, I had a period where I went form 13 to 2 DA's or so. my record is 15 and I currently own 13 of them.

I'm not sure how you get DA's every time you top the spire, I fight all the way to the top EVERY week and I haven't snagged an AM in weeks

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'm not sure how you get DA's every time you top the spire, I fight all the way to the top EVERY week and I haven't snagged an AM in weeks

reading is a virtue

I use 1 DA every 2 weeks and they are lasting for as long as I can imagine, I had a period where I went form 13 to 2 DA's or so. my record is 15 and I currently own 13 of them.

RNG always applies, you need to work with long term averages. not spot results. those are as random as they can be. as said I want from 13 to 2 (so yes I had a crappy period as well, but after rain comes sunshine, you just need to save them up in good times to use them in bad times)

 

[Momonar]

While reading all the posts on this, I think it underscores the underlying dissatisfaction that exists with the pillars of Elvenar (city building, production, tournament, spire, events, FA): The rewards are rarely balanced with the effort.

Many people above mentioned how fun it was to finally push to get 10 chests to get that coveted blue print.
Similar posts about finally reaching Gold in the spire to get a little premium currency... and to those who say it is not a little, it is compared to the prices of everything. If a blueprint is valued at 300 diamonds (which it is in the crafter), then getting 275 diamonds as the gold spire reward is balanced.

So what can be done to make the rewards commensurate with the effort given that there is a huge difference in the effort required or even the ability to achieve depending on chapter, wonders, map exploration?

The FA is a classic example... why bother for a top 100 finish if the reward is a 2 hour time skip?
The Fellowship perk points were a nice addition, but not really enough to be worth the effort.

The same sort of thing is going on with the extended tourney chests... The royal restoration is a great addition, but not really enough for the increasing difficulty. Given the rate of increasing difficulty for each tourney province, the difficulty for the "next chest" is exponential.

Chest	Points	Provinces	Provinces / 24
10	40000	149	7
11	50000	186	8
12	61000	226	10
13	73000	271	12
14	86000	319	14
15	100000	371	16
16	115000	426	18
17	131000	486	21
18	148000	549	23
19	166000	615	26

It should be noted that an individual needs to have scouted 9x the number of provinces per person to be able to complete that many. The table above assumes a 24 person fellowship. Dwarves chapter entry requires 100 provinces (enough to reach 11 per person). As a "fighter" who usually has to auto-fight because of playing time constraints, the difficulty going from 15 to 20 to 25 to 30 is significant even with a typical 50% unit health bonus from either an armorer or 2 of the unleashed unit buildings, and 50% attack bonus from a fire phoenix. If I had to do 30 per week, I would probably have to "recharge" at least 1 week in 3 if not 1 in 2.

Given that the incentive is 1 more royal restoration and 1 more AW instant, and given that without the 50% health bonus, I can usually do 12 provinces easily, then there really isn't much excitement generated to "push" for 19 chests.

While you can argue that a dwarven armorer or other building is "too much" or "too little" or only favors a subset of players, I think the underlying point that the reward is not worth the effort is what needs to be addressed.

I love that Elvenar has added "selectable prizes" in the form of the tomes. That has made events much more fun and worthwhile even if the grand prize is completely useless for my style of play. I would suggest that this new reward mechanic be used to revamp the tourney chest rewards. For instance, the coin/supply/goods/kp reward could be added to the 7th or 8th chest as an incentive for those fellowships who don't push for 10 because the "rewards are out of reach". One of the events had a selectable military boost building that I LOVED. Being able to boost heavy range, melee, or light melee attach is a huge increase in which tournaments I could push. Could make degrees of those tomes to help combat the randomness of the crafter. 12 chest reward of a selectable supply (including mana, seeds, orcs, sentient goods), 14 chest of selectable military (archer, mage, unleashed unit), 16 expanded supply, 18 expanded military (all possible military boost), and 19 the grand prize of 1 selectable supply, 1 selectable military, 1 dwarven armorer.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

While reading all the posts on this, I think it underscores the underlying dissatisfaction that exists with the pillars of Elvenar (city building, production, tournament, spire, events, FA): The rewards are rarely balanced with the effort.

Many people above mentioned how fun it was to finally push to get 10 chests to get that coveted blue print.
Similar posts about finally reaching Gold in the spire to get a little premium currency... and to those who say it is not a little, it is compared to the prices of everything. If a blueprint is valued at 300 diamonds (which it is in the crafter), then getting 275 diamonds as the gold spire reward is balanced.

So what can be done to make the rewards commensurate with the effort given that there is a huge difference in the effort required or even the ability to achieve depending on chapter, wonders, map exploration?

The FA is a classic example... why bother for a top 100 finish if the reward is a 2 hour time skip?
The Fellowship perk points were a nice addition, but not really enough to be worth the effort.

The same sort of thing is going on with the extended tourney chests... The royal restoration is a great addition, but not really enough for the increasing difficulty. Given the rate of increasing difficulty for each tourney province, the difficulty for the "next chest" is exponential.

Chest	Points	Provinces	Provinces / 24
10	40000	149	7
11	50000	186	8
12	61000	226	10
13	73000	271	12
14	86000	319	14
15	100000	371	16
16	115000	426	18
17	131000	486	21
18	148000	549	23
19	166000	615	26

It should be noted that an individual needs to have scouted 9x the number of provinces per person to be able to complete that many. The table above assumes a 24 person fellowship. Dwarves chapter entry requires 100 provinces (enough to reach 11 per person). As a "fighter" who usually has to auto-fight because of playing time constraints, the difficulty going from 15 to 20 to 25 to 30 is significant even with a typical 50% unit health bonus from either an armorer or 2 of the unleashed unit buildings, and 50% attack bonus from a fire phoenix. If I had to do 30 per week, I would probably have to "recharge" at least 1 week in 3 if not 1 in 2.

Given that the incentive is 1 more royal restoration and 1 more AW instant, and given that without the 50% health bonus, I can usually do 12 provinces easily, then there really isn't much excitement generated to "push" for 19 chests.

While you can argue that a dwarven armorer or other building is "too much" or "too little" or only favors a subset of players, I think the underlying point that the reward is not worth the effort is what needs to be addressed.

I love that Elvenar has added "selectable prizes" in the form of the tomes. That has made events much more fun and worthwhile even if the grand prize is completely useless for my style of play. I would suggest that this new reward mechanic be used to revamp the tourney chest rewards. For instance, the coin/supply/goods/kp reward could be added to the 7th or 8th chest as an incentive for those fellowships who don't push for 10 because the "rewards are out of reach". One of the events had a selectable military boost building that I LOVED. Being able to boost heavy range, melee, or light melee attach is a huge increase in which tournaments I could push. Could make degrees of those tomes to help combat the randomness of the crafter. 12 chest reward of a selectable supply (including mana, seeds, orcs, sentient goods), 14 chest of selectable military (archer, mage, unleashed unit), 16 expanded supply, 18 expanded military (all possible military boost), and 19 the grand prize of 1 selectable supply, 1 selectable military, 1 dwarven armorer.

Those 9 extra chest are just there for the overachievers. not for the prizes. you do not want good prizes in those chest because then they become mandatory. and I do not know if you every check the tournament rank lists but it's not easy to get 25 players that get 6700+ ranking points. just count how few fellowships you could fill on your world with players fitting that qualification.

So many people already have a hard time getting 10 provincies 5-6 rounds completed. not because it's hard but because they can't be bothered. now your talking about an average of 25+ provinces * 6 rounds or 32*5. you just won't be able to entice enough people to strive for it no matter what the reward is.

 

[Yogi Dave]

you just won't be able to entice enough people to strive for it no matter what the reward is.

I think a good number of FSs will be enticed and it will grow with time as becoming Gold Spire did. However, it will make it even harder to let people from lower chapters in the top FSs. It's nice to help them grow and become productive, which is why I'm not enthused about it. So, that's change in my only post in this thread and it's too late for it to matter. I had voted 'yes'.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This week my FS decided to do a 19 chest push "just because", and I gotta say the results were as expected: I did my 10K points, and then a few hours later my wife called from the other room

"Hey we made it"​

-Made what?​

"19 chests."​

-Oh. OK.​

​

Getting the top achievement possible for a FS in the tournament ranks an unenthusiastic "meh" at best as is. If not a DA, then at least a 1x1 with top-tier stats would be nice.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Getting the top achievement possible for a FS in the tournament ranks an unenthusiastic "meh" at best as is. If not a DA, then at least a 1x1 with top-tier stats would be nice.

This is kind of funny. Of course, you would have a "meh" reaction given that you are advocating for a DA. or 1x1 building. Now imagine it's the 1x1 building and you got 19 chests every week, you'd leave most of them in Summonings or disenchant them. I mean who would want 52 of those a year in their city? They'd become the rich player's Winter Lampions.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Now imagine it's the 1x1 building and you got 19 chests every week, you'd leave most of them in Summonings or disenchant them.

I think you missed the part where I said "top tier"
a 1x1 building that is as good as existing buildings would have a place in any city.

As for the 1 FS per server that would get 52 per year, there's a really simple fix for that: The prize doesn't have to be the same every week.

 

[The Fairy]

I spend diamonds crafting RR spells, so an RR spell is worth 30 diamonds for me. So getting 19 chests instead of 10 chests means 270 extra diamonds per week for me

 

[Momonar]

A little more energy into selectable rewards for the tourney chests could do a lot to keep enthusiasm for the tourney as a whole among the whole range of players (beginner, intermediate, advanced, and those players who are done with all the chapter research).

I would like to see either advancements in the auto-fighter so that all players regardless of mobile vs desktop can get decent combat results, or enhancements to the battle interface to preview the terrain.

In terms of a better auto-fighter, the easiest solution is to change the algorithm goal to "minimize damage taken". Implement this by coding a function to calculate a threat score for the current unit, then prioritize elimination of the threat, followed by avoidance. Or if that sounds like too much work and if the developers are more into an AI approach, develop an AI model to learn from all the fight data generated by real players.

The next thing I would most like are better fellowship management tools:
a) Access to Ancient Wonder Upgrade History Data for all fellowship members available to AM or Mage. This would make Wonder Society simpler and easier (which granted is only important to fellowships who share kp this way).

b) Fellowship Adventure badge pooling (if not for the whole event, at least the last hour).

c) Access to Spire results for each fellowship member (similar to tourney results) from Friday 4pm to Sunday Noon.

d) Better advertising of Fellowship openings within the game. For instance, a filter button on the fellowship listing tab to show fellowships with openings (descending by score).

That's my current wish list

 

[Astram]

Spire rewards are adjusted and updated on an as-needed basis. No specific changes are preset or guaranteed.

"DA's are deemed to be a rare reward, with no changes being planned to change their availability."

Copy/Paste fail on my part, sorry