FA push towns must End! That's clear cheating!

[The Earl of Winds]

The perk points offered now are the motivation to place well in FAs, not the goofy prizes

 

[Myne]

There's no win condition in Elvenar. All placing first in the FA does is get you some in game stuff that's no better than you can get with diamonds and your name in lights for a few days (if anyone bothers to look.)

but bragging rights are good for morale in fellowships.

 

[Myne]

Addressing the "spirit of the game" or "spirit of the rules" is a bit like addressing "what is art." The spirit of the thing is tied up with the intention of the producer of the thing, the receiver of the thing, and the thing itself. We sort of know what was/is intended, how the thing strikes our sensibilities, and what the thing is, but all that is secondary to the concrete thing itself. In this case the "thing itself" is encoded in the rules and enforcement of those rules. What the rules say is not permissible, how those rules are applied and the degree to which they are applied constitutes the actual "spirit" of the rules at this time. And that means, pretty much, their is not real advantage of speaking of the "spirit" of the rules or game since if it's legal (or not but not enforced, which is a form of "legal by proxy") it's all you have to go on. So the idea of "cheating" becomes mute when it "violates" the "spirit of the game" exactly because you can't violate something that, legally speaking, does not exist.

As for the building FA farms, I do it all the time. I have about 200 workshops now and I parked all my Chapter 18 buildings and even deleted my portal for the room. Why? Because I like helping my team get into the top 10 (which we do every time we go "all out"). That, to me, is part of the game and makes it fun. One supposes it's a bit like playing any spoirt. You show up with people and they haven't made the effort to bulk up, or improve their sport skills, they generally lose, where those who sacrifice time and energy to do so, often do better.

AJ



AJ

I build shanty towns too. I DO NOT nor would I ever start a city to be used exclusively for FA.

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

This game is rife with cheaters, always has been. There is no real respect (at least from me) for players that do everything to cheat, whether it is alt accounts that push kp to a main city, or demanding that everyone in your fs buy diamonds, or an fs bringing in 5 FA shanty towns just for the FA. The playing field is not level, never has been. It is a deeply hollow "WIN" for any player or FS that cheats to get ahead. There is no honor in it. If you think that there is, and that it doesn't matter, I'm sad for you that you don't even know the meaning of fair play, and how to win honorably. Having said that, Elvenar is not a game that anyone can win, fairly. But, oh, sillyme. lol

 

[Mykan]

Problem is it's not facts, it's supposition. It might be a perfectly reasonable and likely, supposition, but we can't say for sure that the cities aren't mostly-inactive people who just like to come back when there's an FA running because they find the rest of the game boring.

Its sits in the grey area, which is what the pushing rules are (grey, not black and white). Devs have accurate logs but even elvenstats history shows a fairly clear pattern. Personally I don't care that much, I am more curious if they are booting out active members to bring in the specialty towns. Do those players come back after the FA? Would you want to?

A person could legitimately

But same as the OP it's the main reason I started to ignore FA's why. because it's a competition of destruction.
When they try to do something agains it (somewhat) people start to complain about the changes. how many complaints have we seen, "too many coins" or "to much goods for badge" or the imassive outcry about esotheric badges ect.

If they restricted badges to things they could scale with MH or chapter it would somewhat level the playing field. Would at least remove the need for a shanty town. However I don't trust them not to stuff it up. Current FA is a good example of having the right town at the right spot for easy coins/bracelets but also the reverse and in a world of pain.

As I said so many times before they only way to make an FA a team effort and not destruction derby is to hold the FA not in your city but in an event location/city. this means every team has the same working parameters and the only difference is in the effort.

This would be cool, maybe not for every adventure but having an event town that starts clean could be interesting. Anyone running more than a couple towns would be stuffed though to find their towns double for a week

 

[Dadnaz]

As for the building FA farms, I do it all the time. I have about 200 workshops now and I parked all my Chapter 18 buildings and even deleted my portal for the room. Why? Because I like helping my team get into the top 10 (which we do every time we go "all out"). That, to me, is part of the game and makes it fun. One supposes it's a bit like playing any spoirt. You show up with people and they haven't made the effort to bulk up, or improve their sport skills, they generally lose, where those who sacrifice time and energy to do so, often do better.

The idea of changing your city in favor of the FA is totally fine. We change our cities all the time, but no matter the change you do, you are limited byt the space of your city and under your city chapter rules. What I'm trying to say is different. Someone bring an entire different city in to the FS just for the FS adventure and after it is over the city is removed. That's what, in my opinion, is the cheating part. You now, don't have only the space of your city but 20, 30 or more expansions. When we change our cities, AWs stay, main buildings are bigger. If you look at the picture I posted in the first post, you will see that nothing of that applies to the cities (not pushing???) that I'm talking about. Let's call it Minion Cities.... Just to give an idea. The FS I'm talking about has 462... yes 462.. more pits then the FS that is in the second place right now.

 

[DeletedUser22644]

...The FS I'm talking about has 462... yes 462.. more pits then the FS that is in the second place right now.

And just for my understanding. What is different now than it was 1 or 2 years ago with FS's building shanty towns to complete the 3 stages in hours and spend days cycling thru the pit?
I have a city that I stripped most all of it away and built w/s and T1's, because it was a city I had abandoned active playing. But my investment in that city and the diamonds still therein are mine and mine to do as I wish. If I am not breaking any game rules then what business is it of yours how I deck it out. Personally I find it more fun to participate in the FA this way and do not feel I am cheating anyone at all.

Nobody was booted out when I joined back up and if I stay or leave is up to me. If the FS was full I would have found another FS to party hard with.

 

[Rivena Winters]

The FS I'm talking about has 462... yes 462.. more pits then the FS that is in the second place right now.

But will it be enough to hold first place?

 

[StarLoad]

But will it be enough to hold first place?

And does it really matter

 

[Ashrem]

but bragging rights are good for morale in fellowships.

And I'll repeat, if our morale is less because someone else is doing things a different way, that is an internal problem.

What if the player's city was 100% identical to yours, except they had also paid the thousands of dollars to buy all 45 premium expansions, would they be cheating? This person has decided to mothball their town so they don't have to pay that money to get the same result as someone who does.

 

[Darielle]

Ima throw in my 2 cents worth: If "normal" fellowships (and by that I mean those who do not follow that "stuffing the fellowship" pattern) have no chance at actually placing in the top 5 in the FA, then how could it possibly be a fair practice or at the very least not cheating? The premise of any game is fair play. At least I have never heard of a game that was designed to be used with cheating.
IMHO, this practice should be stopped.

BUT do we have enough pull to shape the rules?

I can tell you that it is possible (though extremely hard) to place in the top five without cheating or using these kinds of swap cities. We've done #4 several times and I am confident that none of us cheat. Course you can never tell if someone sneaks in some diamonds here and there, but all of the cities we have are active year round, not just during FAs.

 

[BrinDarby]

If they restricted badges to things they could scale with MH or chapter it would somewhat level the playing field.

uhhhh, no ...... lets take the 2 we talk about alot.... Coins/Bracelets.
over my 4 cities.......

Coins.... a 100% coin rain gets me from .88 to 2.3 coin badges.
Bracelets... my best manu..... from 1.7(x3hr) to 6(x3hr) of 1 bldg(sparkled)

every other badge in the FA is equal to everyone, except those 2 badges.
So, your comment ( to me ) seems totally wrong , those 2 badges are
"scaled" and the playing field is anything but level.....

 

[Mykan]

So, your comment ( to me ) seems totally wrong , those 2 badges are
"scaled" and the playing field is anything but level.....

However I don't trust them not to stuff it up.

That is precisely why I said the above. History is not on their side to get it right, tournaments are a perfect example of that. Those 2 badges are another.

 

[BrinDarby]

ahh , ok

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I think some people commenting here and asking about one city being swapped out for the obvious FA-only cheat city are missing something. Most likely there are people in that fellowship, and others, who have multiple cities/accounts in the same fellowship. So in this particular situation, I would bet that there is one player with two cities in that fellowship, a main and an alt that assists the main in growing, and they are removing their alt and moving in the FA city to boost the FA score for the fellowship. And if there are three cities being removed for three other cities, that would mean there are three players in that fellowship doing the same thing. But like others have also said, there have been plenty of cheating/rules violations for most of the years that Elvenar has existed, yet Innogames has ignored it and ignored the complaints and reports filed about it. They have their rules against Pushing, but don't enforce it probably 95% of the time. This is basically like all the people who swear Barry Bonds was not a doper and did not cheat his way to the home run record.

 

[defiantoneks]

regardless of any rules that may exist, as others have said or suggested, it's about enforcing them. and proving that someone is actually violating a rule becomes a waste of time for Inno. They lose nothing by having people run multiple accounts. More than likely those people pay more for diamonds than anyone else so why annoy your customers.

you could try so many things to curb the "problem" but the "offenders" will always find a way around it.

implement a "your city has been inactive for x period and therefore you cant participate in FA" and those people will just make a point of logging into their FA city more often and clicking a few things, moving them around, etc.

or how about "members must be part of the FS for at least 4 weeks to participate in the following FA"? then what about new players who join, and then they cant play?

or do you try to narrow it down like tourney/spire and say you cant CHANGE your FS less than X days/weeks ahead? then how long is a good amount?

see, now i'm tired of it and i've only been typing for a couple of minutes.

 

[Ashrem]

That is precisely why I said the above. History is not on their side to get it right, tournaments are a perfect example of that. Those 2 badges are another.

This is why I've suggested "pacing buildings" for events and FAs. The FA requires using a fellowship building to make FA-widgets. The building can't be built ahead of time, and can't be built faster by someone in chapter 16 than it can in chapter 1, whether you have 1 workshop or 500. You can only have one Event-building, which produces X-widgets per time unit. Every spot on the path needs widgets and other things. You must use the widgets to level it to EventBuilding2, and you can't produce widget2 unless your event building is level 2. You need wdiget2 to upgrade to EventBuilding3, and can't produce Widget3 until you do.

The only differences available to it are:

1. number of people in your fellowship
2. willingness to spend diamonds or timers
3. how much time you are online to upgrade it and reset productions.

 

[BrinDarby]

This is not a joke or a push city .....
Did I cheat for bracelets ???

( FS is already in Pit & in top 20 )

 

[Lelanya]

The Dwarven Citadel set was amazing in my Beta city at Orc chapter, paired with Pilgrim's Manor set with an extra marble piece, for FA. But DC is less impressive in Elementals, thanks to sentients being left out if the equation.

 

[Deborah M]

And I'll repeat, if our morale is less because someone else is doing things a different way, that is an internal problem.

What if the player's city was 100% identical to yours, except they had also paid the thousands of dollars to buy all 45 premium expansions, would they be cheating? This person has decided to mothball their town so they don't have to pay that money to get the same result as someone who does.

Oh! Now there's an idea Wonder what our FS score would look like if I stored most of 174 expansions and built nothing but shanty town buildings. The thing is you never know the real story behind what anybody else does. All I know for sure is that I lost a whole lot of interest in the FAs after they very clearly became a credit card war at the end for top rankings. I can actually understand why there may be folks out there who would stretch the rules to compete with that.