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Your Elvenar Team
No, once you get to ch VIII, you only have about 2 weeks of work before you can start producing orcs and continue to negotiate.... but you have to have 1. Mushroom Farms. Making mushrooms. 2. Upgraded Armories. Making Orcs. 3. Rally Points. To collect the orcs. 4. Space. For all of the above.
You only need 160 provinces to open the Chapter VIII Advanced Scouting chest, so you have a margin of 62 Provinces OVER AND ABOVE what you need to keep up with the game.
No. Your language is not precise. You have a margin over and above what you need to open the chests, but the chests aren't "the game". "The game" is a multifaceted city building game and without space you can't build. It ceases being the kind of game that some were playing, which is why many are leaving.
Which is awful by the way, because it takes a long time to get fully entrenched players.
You'll need Orcs all over the place in Chapter VIII.
You'll see Orc requirements earlier than Chapter VIII only if you're trying to negotiate in Ring 11 and beyond,
which the developers regard as Chapter VIII territory.
I'm tracking US1: Arendyll quite closely, over at https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/arendyll-neighborhood-watch.2973/page-2#post-21083. Immigrants are replacing about 1% of the cities each day, because they've been inactive for 30 days. If no immigrants are available then we'll see a Goldmine after 31 days, but we still have a net population gain, so about 1% of the Goldmines are being replaced each week.
So your saying the replacement rate is 1% each week or 5% over a month, but the purge is working it will delete at least 5% . Even at 1% gain /week of the reduced number of cities, after the purge, it wold take years to make any real impact on most players with 75% goldmines. Considering the dropout rate above the purge cutoff, the total active players may even be declining at a rate greater then the new active player joins. Can you give us numbers that would counter this analysis?
The developers are about to start moving isolated cities toward the more densely populated areas on the map. The developers haven't committed to exactly how nor when the moves will start happening, but Soon™.
Everything that we know about map density and the immigration algorithm has been learned by observation. The developer have never shared their database schema nor their intentions, and I'd actually be surprised if there's ever anything more than a vague comment in the Release Notes.
Kat: this Contest throws your balanced game arguments out the window with all the KPS, Spells and Prizes given, this is no longer a City Builder game but a crap shoot ( no Orc pun intended ) . I am sure this re-balancing has been successful and with the Contest and Orcs, diamond purchases have skyrocketed, so the redesign is working and saved a sinking ship (studio).
This is not a pert charted project to build something great this is a game of get the Money.
In my book "balanced" means that there's not an obvious "best" way to play the game.
The complexion of the game already changes quite a bit as you move through each chapter, and that keeps things lively. The model is actually chaotic, so the game is VERY resistant to a "optimized" solution. There aren't really any situations that allow for a simple-minded approach. You have to keep adjusting your aim.
We have strange attractors all over the place. The Orc Rally Point, in particular, strongly exhibits the Lorenz Effect.
my challenge with orcs was that i was in the middle of finishing a province when the update happened. now orcs are required and i'm unable to finish the province. i get that that's a temporary problem, but it doesn't make it less annoying.
the reason that province was important was to access someone i needed to trade with. thank you.
I am a non diamond player. Unspent diamonds I have are from registering with the game and a post patch surprise from Innogames. I play on Felyndral world, belong to a fellowship and my current city score is 23, 623. Started playing in March of 2016.
Katwijk, you come with all the formulae, algorithms, charts, theories ecetera which make you set on how to and how not to play this game. So lets use my city with your thoughts of game playing you have shared over numerous threads as how I should proceed.
In my city layout, you see I have 24 houses, if I don't upgrade anything but houses for now to level 15, that will take me to nearly 3.8k population. I have 9 workshops, I run 4 -5 3 hour cycles plus a 9 hour cycle overnight. Each cycle nets me a surplus of 6 - 9 supplies versus what I spend on each cycle. 5 marble factories, 4 crystal factories, 3 elixir factories. These volumes allow me not to worry about not completing research or trades or negotiations. There are 5 Battle monuments and $ Central Place buildings for culture, currently I'm sitting at a little over 3.9k available culture.
I am nearing the end of chapter 5 and on par with the non declinable quest line which is at priest promotion, see my research tree. I have cleared 116 provinces (think screen shot says 114, I add 2 this evening). Of all the neighbour cities I have discovered (70 plus), 6 remain. Of those 6, 1 is active, 1 appears once in awhile, the other 4 are dead, the rest are all gold mines. 95% plus of those gold mines are nearly 2 months old. I have not seen any new cities added since May or June 2016.
If I was to follow your methods of progress, I would only have half the city that I do now and would be further behind in progression than I am. I would be making less goods, less supplies, less coins for research, trading, upgrading and scouting. I would also have less expansions than I do through province conquering using the meet the chapter gate quantity only way. The expansions from the research tree, fall far short of what we would need to succeed.
If I were to continue with your thought process of city progression, I will be struggle quite hard with what is to come in chapter 6 never mind what's to come in chapters 7 and 8. There are still more upgrades with orientation changes, new buildings in the form of portals, mines and farms ecetera. It will be impossible to progress with how you think city progression should work at least in Elvenar.
Now we are starting to see a pattern of contests for us to complete. On top of everything else, we now have to use our resources to work towards these if we choose to do them. A much tougher task with your way of thinking.
Then we have Ancient Wonders, if we feel there are any which are beneficial to actually chase after, where do we place those. Do we get rid of more essential buildings? Or do we over conquer provinces so that we may have the space for essential or possibly essential buildings? As I mentioned already, the research tree does not provide enough expansions.
Yes there are expansions to be acquired with diamonds, for the non diamond playing player, those are completely out of the question. Yes there is the tournaments, yet another strain on our resources, even more so using your thinking of city progression.
Very much this. I am a player who buys diamonds to unlock premium expansions, who is eyeing the sudden increase in available premium expansions warily. I was previously using "when the main hall upgrades, buy one" as a metric for when to buy premium expansions. Suddenly this metric is gone. I don't buy diamond culture buildings because these buildings are near impossible to get rid of. In fact, I'm still trying to think of a way to get rid of the flower cages I bought when I was just starting and didn't know better. I'm considering replacing them with a couple of the buildings I got from the festival, but that only moves the problem to later on in the research tree.
I have: twelve workshops (I like even numbers, and ten was not enough moving into dwarves), six planks manufactories, four scrolls manufactories, four elixirs manufactories, one crystal manufactory which I really don't want to delete because it's PRETTY but am afraid I might have to, Inno, when you move my city could you PLEASE drop it on a tile that has boosted crystals, I like them for purely cosmetic purposes, and three armories, which might drop to two when I unlock dwarven armories. I now have five level 2 granite mines and a level 2 dwarven portal, and three ancient wonders, a Golden Abyss, a Crystal Lighthouse, and a Martial Monastery.
According to Katwijk, I shouldn't have those two extra planks manufactories, but I see no way to avoid having them, and in fact I feel like I should be building more because I'm chronically short on t1 goods. I also shouldn't be maintaining the crystal manufactory, but why should I be forced to not have at least one of the prettiest manufactory in the game just because Inno doesn't like me and didn't give me crystals? And I'm still very short on space, and have no idea how I will find room for the Orc buildings when I get that far. Province expansions are wonderful things.
Oh my gosh, I admit I laughed out loud at this! I am a stay-at-home-mom of a 4 year old & a 2 year old. My laptop stays on the dining room table, and throughout the day as I have 5 minutes or more to "check in", I will often message on FB with other women I know & I will check into my city & do a few things as needed. I literally play ALL DAY EVERY DAY if you count this type of check in as "playing". I have no other city because I feel like I invest too much time in the one I already have. I know, some of you are likely thinking I ignore my kids all day & put them in front of the tv. Nope, not true, I promise. I just mean that it's pretty easy to check in on my game regularly due to my circumstances.
Before the AWs were mandatory in the Tech Tree, I had avoided paying the full costs for all of them, as I had opened Tome, Abyss, Lighthouse & Monastery & wanted to build Abyss. I of course knew that as soon as I added new AWs to the mix, my chances of getting the runes I wanted would decrease. I somewhat easily got full rune rings for Lighthouse & Monastery, with currently 39 extra Monastery & 25 extra Lighthouse runes. I have been trying ever since I opened Abyss to get a full rune for that and am still almost in the same place I was when I first opened it (estimating at least a month now? When did Secret Ancient Wonders come out?). Anyway, I still need 4 runes to complete the Abyss rune ring. I have spent at least 150+ KP contributing to 3 other players' Abyss & have gotten the top spot all 3 times, mostly BECAUSE I PLAY EVERY DAY and I keep an eye on those things to make sure that if it's close to upgrading, I'm in the top spot.
What did I get each of those 3 times? An Abyss SHARD. So I have 6 Abyss shards & still need 4 runes to build it. And I've been competing in non-boosted tournies to get runes, trying to complete the (for me, non-negotiable provinces due to the Orc costs I can't pay since I'm in DWARVES) provinces to get runes, and I bought a couple of chests so far in the Solstice hoping to get some runes too (nope).
FTR, I need one full rune for the Tome to complete the rune ring & I have 7 shards there, which is interesting because I haven't been working towards gaining this AW but it's still farther ahead than the one that I *am* actively working towards!
You have a margin over and above what you need to open the chests, but the chests aren't "the game". "The game" is a multifaceted city building game and without space you can't build. It ceases being the kind of game that some were playing, which is why many are leaving.
Which is awful by the way, because it takes a long time to get fully entrenched players.
Thanks to those responding to my question on the previous page(ish) about those who have smaller manufacturing numbers. I will try to come back shortly to respond specifically.
The Planks factories stay smaller than the other types of factories, keep track of the footprints, so you'll have to shade them on the high side anyway. Rather than building more of each type, you should concentrate on the Tournaments that will allow you to run your boosts up to 700%.
After that, your balance depends more on trading than you might suspect. In a couple of my cities I have routine 3-way trades going, because that allows me to broker trades between a Fellow and a Neighbor who can't directly trade with each other, although they have exactly what the other needs.
If you're running a small footprint city, then you won't have enough ROOM for more than 3 or 4 manufacturing buildings from each Tier, and that's plenty to keep up with the Tech Tree, unless you're using Goods to buy Knowledge Points and unless you're chewing up Goods to negotiate most of your provinces.
A military approach doesn't require as much space, and you'll need a couple of armories in any case when you get to Chapter VIII.
In a couple of my cities I have routine 3-way trades going, because that allows me to broker trades between a Fellow and a Neighbor who can't directly trade with each other, although they have exactly what the other needs.
In my city on E1, I have people I can trade with. on E2, I have 1 person out of my fs that I can trade with in the manner I need to. There are a few other low level players, but the amount of goods I want simply can not be handled by them. In effect, I have 2 goods I can get outside of the fs and 1 I have to buy as even the people in my fs do not have the capacity to trade with me. I have approximately 180 gold mines surrounding me.
I hope the fix the devs are working on helps, but as of now, I have little ability to trade for what I need.
My score is almost 80k, so it is not killing me, but crippling my growth. Since I have not spent on the game, I am limited in that manner as well. I choose long ago not to care about my score, but I am hampered with goods and events. I built the MA simply because I was tired of seeing the quest sit there when I was over a chapter ahead. I regret it, but my ocd is happy.
Regarding the Original Post in this thread, I have some very specific feedback for you, and I have seen that my problem with the current paradigm is not the least bit uncommon. Keep in mind that the truly successful games are rewarding. In this particular game, up until the Orcs, it has been just that. Such is no longer the case.
There was no reason other than greed on the part of Inno to start requiring Orcs in order to progress on the map, as far back in the research tree as it is.
As soon as I find a way to disband my Fellowship (a top 100 one on Winyandor) without damaging the other members, I intend to do just that.
@travelstovegas Yup, with ya here. I have it on all day and am able to check in constantly when there's something to check up on (not neglecting my job or anything else in my life, just popping in as if it were Facebook or some other temporary diversion), and this "only a matter of time" nonsense about the runes is so far off the mark. I am also STILL WAITING on my last Abyss rune, and can't even complete the broken shards because I have built my Lighthouse/Monastery, and they're the only ones for which I keep getting runes. I actually built and demolished the useless Tome of Secrets TWICE now just so I can try to break more runes - but alas, imagine the frustration when I didn't break a single rune completing the Tome circle a second time. That was almost a rage quit moment right there.
Trying to get even more runes to have slightly better odds at 1, getting the right Wonder's rune; 2, having that rune actually fit the circle; or at least 3, getting a rune that will break on a different Wonder's circle, has been an almost completely futile quest even BEFORE the next couple Wonders researches were made mandatory (and of course let's not even get into the whole "pushing me back in the Tech Tree for 170+ KP when I'm about to start Dwarves). Provinces are almost impossible to clear and I only have a couple left before I hit the Orc caps on all sides. Tournaments suck every last resource out of my stockpiles only to get maybe one rune that ends up not being a helpful one. I've only opened one Solstice chest so far (saving for certain buildings) but I can bet when I start opening them the chances of getting runes that help me are just about nil.
For weeks I saw daily improvement in my city, my ability to manage events/quests/city needs, and my score. Since the AWs became mandatory I have completely stagnated. It's awful.
I must say that as a complete non-spender I have been just behind the releases and never had issues with anything.
With that being said I have no issue with requiring orcs to cater/negotiate provinces. However, I do find that I'm almost at a stand still for the tech tree since I now require so much dang stuff. I currently have 3 rally points and 16 or more mushroom farms and it's very hard to get stuff. Within days I'll be dumping kp into my wonders and/or fellowships members AWs.
As for runes, I wasn't too happy that I had to dump 170 kp into them. Not because of the kp requirement (I've already realized I'm not urgently needing kp in anyway), but more so that I now have 6 more wonders available and runes I don't want for them vs. the runes I do want.
Tournaments have become somewhat beneficial in the fact I do the first 2 provinces 3x or 4x each to gain about 16+ kp and 2-3 runes for basically nothing more than a bit of time and minimal losses of paladins and priests.
I can see those who have paid for expansions/diamonds being frustrated, due to the fact with bigger cities you get more resources/goods faster and thus can clear more provinces faster. This perpetuates the problem by allowing you more expansions from finishing provinces and allowing you to build more and faster. So the only way to sort of stay with the game is to continue spending or be like many have iterated here - not happy!!
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Your Elvenar Team
