Gripe and Bemoan the Horrors of (BAD) Cross-tier (ALWAYS)

[shimmerfly]

there definitely is way too much cross-tier going on. Having to once in a while make up for a rare shortfall is one thing, but two or three pages from the same player of 100 elixir offered for 1600 steel is getting on my last nerve.

Yep, I just saw 50 crystal for 800 planks. Really?
95 % of my trader the last 2 weeks has been cross tier. I stopped taking them even for new players and tried to post a few small trades for them to gobble up, Hoping that they may eventually get the message. Nope not happening. I can't even imagine when sentient goods hits the fan.

FILTERS please!

 

[DeletedUser]

Yep, I just saw 50 crystal for 800 planks. Really?
FILTERS please!

Yes, really. There are mischievous players that always try to pull a fast one. It only needs for someone to accept multiple trades and click on it by mistake.

Trades are tricky and sneak in smoothly

 

[NightshadeCS]

I will jump on the bandwagon and BEG for a simple cross-tier filter, specifically, a HIDE CROSS-TIER checkbox. The enormity is exponential when you get into the second sentient good, and I can only assume greater still when you add the third.

I have adopted the strategy used by others (I think @Deborah M may have said this), where I open the trader, click the checkbox for FS trades and take all those, then just go through the goods that I need, using the filters to find what I need (e.g., just steel being offered, etc). If the trader doesn't have what I'm looking for, then I just post what I want. No more flipping through the pages looking for complementary trades to clean up, neighbors who might be in need that I can help, etc. Unless I have a good chunk of free time to devote to it, of course.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

...where I open the trader, click the checkbox for FS trades and take all those...

Until your fellowship becomes like most others. Right now I have 13 pages of fellowship trades and 10 of those pages are all cross-tier. And almost all of them are the crappy kind. I have not bothered to look around for another fellowship because I do not expect to find anything different anywhere else, just based on the amount of non-fellowship cross-tier.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

There are very few things that honestly irritate me on a daily basis when I pop into the game, otherwise I'd be doing what I've done here and continually complain about it, because keeping my mouth shut is not one of my strengths. Back in the day, cross-tier trades were not placed with such aggressive frequency and I somewhat understood why the problem was never resolved, but circumstances have changed considerably with the advent of both sentient goods and event prizes that produce, overwhelmingly, third tier while no equivalent structures for the lower tiers exist. Now, I think everybody has the right to post what they want and all, which is the reason I don't advocate for limiting what can be posted, but just adding a filter? C'mon, Inno, make it happen! I see it as a form of punishment for loyalty, forcing those who have played for years to put up with the unwieldy monstrosity of a Trader described by more advanced players. I also see it as pushing every player, regardless of chapter, to trade less and be less generous. Everybody's heard of the dripping water torture technique, right? This is Elvenar's Drip Drop Torture of TRADING DOOM.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Until your fellowship becomes like most others. Right now I have 13 pages of fellowship trades and 10 of those pages are all cross-tier. And almost all of them are the crappy kind. I have not bothered to look around for another fellowship because I do not expect to find anything different anywhere else, just based on the amount of non-fellowship cross-tier.

I immediately thought of the quote, "Be the change you want to see in others" or however it goes. I couldn't stay in a fellowship that allowed gratuitous cross-tier trading, and if the leadership wouldn't crack down on it, I'd be gone in a heartbeat, but I can certainly understand your resignation.

 

[Vergazi]

That smelled like a confession lol

It was intended to sound more like an AA intruduction, Lol. But, yeah early on I did post lots of cross-tier trades cause for some reason I got a sled carousel that coughed out gems that I couldn't even use at that time except to trade for goods that I needed.

 

[Vergazi]

I open the trader, click the checkbox for FS trades and take all those, then just go through the goods that I need, using the filters to find what I need (e.g., just steel being offered, etc). If the trader doesn't have what I'm looking for, then I just post what I want.

Been operating that way ever since I got into ch5. Seems like the only way I can avoid dealing with a gazillion pages.

 

[Crowella]

What were we talking about again?

 

[DeletedUser20951]

It was intended to sound more like an AA intruduction, Lol. But, yeah early on I did post lots of cross-tier trades cause for some reason I got a sled carousel that coughed out gems that I couldn't even use at that time except to trade for goods that I needed.

Being your neighbor since you joined, I was aware of this, but never felt the urge to bring any attention to it. I have watched your evolution on the matter with interest, though. Welcome to the side of light! Wait, I'm here... Is this actually the light side? *squints* My presence usually suggests the opposite. XD

And, Holy Jesus Mother, IS THAT THE TIME?! Fly, fly, fly!

 

[DeletedUser]

What were we talking about again?

The curse of the cross tier trades

 

[DeletedUser20951]

The curse of the cross tier trades

Well, I've been consulting with curse-breakers, performing occult rites, communing with spirits, calling in a few favors owed to me by those who dwell below, everything I can think of short of human sacrif- *breaks off and cracks up for a moment* Heh, okay, I can't say I didn't do that with a straight face, but, unfortunately, it was all to no avail. CROSS-TIER CONTINUE TO PLAGUE US. I have failed and I beg your forgiveness! *prostrates self on floor and wails*

 

[Crowella]

It's spreading. A couple of my neighbors who didn't post cross-tier trades before have started doing it. Although they at least are posting 3-star trades, it still is not a good value, imo. (Usually it's just barely an improvement on the 4:1 ratio of tier 2:tier 1.)

I think that this might not be just due to the event buildings that produce t3 goods. My experience in the tournament as a newer player is that I play 5-7 provinces through 6 rounds and NEVER get asked for anything but tier 1 goods. As a result, even though I have six level 8 and ten level 1 (thanks mermaid event) tier 1 factories, and only two level 5 and one level 4 tier 2 factory and one level 3 tier 3 factory, I still am just barely making it for tier 1 goods and keep adding to my stockpile of tier 2 and tier 3 goods, which I don't use for anything except occasional buildings and research.

I rank around 400-500 in my server in the tournament each week, so probably most players who do the tournament are using far more tier 1 than tier 2 or 3 goods. Yes, the very big tournament players use a lot of other goods, but it seems like the fact that most players only use tier 1 goods in tournaments might contribute to the imbalance.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

but it seems like the fact that most players only use tier 1 goods in tournaments might contribute to the imbalance.

This is not a fact. The reason you only see T1 in the tournaments is a factor of you being at a fairly narrow place in the progression. Very soon you will get T1 and T2, and at about Dwarves you'll get T1, T2 and T3 as tournament requirements (and you won't get supplies demands). A bit later you will also need orcs to cater.

Considering most players before Dwarves score very little in the tournaments (if anything), tournament catering requires all 3 tiers.

 

[Crowella]

It seems like there are far more chapter 1-5 players than there are endgame players. Of course endgame players are more active in tournaments, but given that I'm in the top 500 or so in the tournament stats on my server, there aren't that many people of any chapter playing tournaments, and depending on the distribution of players doing it, this might result in a significant drain of T1 and T2. As long as the tournament doesn't stop requiring higher-level players to cater with T1 and T2 goods (and only require t3 from them), then there will always be more goods used from tier 1 relative to the others because of players like me who only use t1 goods in addition to players who use all three tiers.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

It seems like there are far more chapter 1-5 players than there are endgame players. Of course endgame players are more active in tournaments, but given that I'm in the top 500 or so in the tournament stats on my server, there aren't that many people of any chapter playing tournaments, and depending on the distribution of players doing it, this might result in a significant drain of T1 and T2. As long as the tournament doesn't stop requiring higher-level players to cater with T1 and T2 goods (and only require t3 from them), then there will always be more goods used from tier 1 relative to the others because of players like me who only use t1 goods in addition to players who use all three tiers.

Chapter 1-5 players are just not that significant from the tournament catering perspective. Here are some stats from the last tournament on US7 Ceravyn - I suspect they all look quite similar:

Players from chapters 1-5 constitute almost half (44%) of all players who got at least 5 points - but their total tournament points are only about 20% of the total. Now, consider that in the later chapters the cost of a single point in goods is dramatically higher - you don't get 20K per good in catering costs per encounter, do you?

With that, catering costs of chapter 1-5 players would be rather inconsequential.

 

[samidodamage]

This is not a fact. The reason you only see T1 in the tournaments is a factor of you being at a fairly narrow place in the progression. Very soon you will get T1 and T2, and at about Dwarves you'll get T1, T2 and T3 as tournament requirements (and you won't get supplies demands). A bit later you will also need orcs to cater.

Considering most players before Dwarves score very little in the tournaments (if anything), tournament catering requires all 3 tiers.

Generally, I agree with this.
Please remember, I never do the math, lol! I wait for the math wizards on the forums to do it and I can follow it well enough to have a good idea who is doing math and who is pulling numbers out of the.. air.
My question is: do you think the absolute quantity of T1 required for catering tournaments is more than that of T2 & T3? It is my general feeling that is the case, but I really have nothing to go on but my gut. Having come to the game determined to avoid the battle portion, I learned pretty quickly that was not the best use of available space/resources & I now fight probably 95% of encounters in my largest (Amuni) city; tourneys and world map(100% on the map). But I kept a relatively large footprint of factories 5 lvl 24 Marble, 3 lvl 21 Crystal & 2 lv 20 Gems. I'm running 1 day builds in gems; the others I collect 9hr builds in the morning and steadily 4 3hr builds during the day. I am built to be able to funnel goods to smaller cities in the tourneys to improve the number of FS chests we get. I'm also lucky to be in a neighborhood with a good number of other active cities that have been there longer than I and have trading relationships established with many of them so balancing within tiers is fairly easy. I find that the hardest goods for me to keep in the quantities I need week in and week out are T1's. T3's I can't seem to give away, and I seem to be okay on T2's at this production level.
I will note that my other city is in Woodelves, in a 10-chest/week FS where I'm one of the smallest cities. I fight 4 rounds of 20 provinces/week there and cater the 5th (due to time constraints usually) and I have all the goods I need in that city in all tiers and fairly balanced between tiers.
So perhaps this is caused by me filling the needs of the smaller cities. Since I took all available SS upgrades through like Dwarves or something, when I look at the required tourney catering goods for me, it can easily be 20K of each tier for one flag plus orcs, nevermind the whole province. I don't see how I could produce enough to 'cater only' at this point even if I wanted to. So judging which tier goods should be most generally called for is hard for me.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

My question is: do you think the absolute quantity of T1 required for catering tournaments is more than that of T2 & T3? It is my general feeling that is the case, but I really have nothing to go on but my gut.

I doubt it. I haven't run this on tournaments (it's pretty difficult to do it right), but I regularly negotiate 20+ provinces in one go on the map, and look at the balances before and after. That's as clean experiment as it comes (nothing changes in-between). The last time I did it was with 26 provinces, so a bit more than 100 encounters. This is catering only.

Turns out, I spent almost exact amounts of T1, T2 and T3. There are differences within tiers as I didn't have equal distribution of province types, but consolidated to tiers the numbers were surprisingly close. So I strongly suspect that the game requires equal parts of each tier for catering on average, at least on the map.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I went through a few tournament encounters most are asking for more t1 as far as I can see,

Spoiler: 01

Spoiler: 02

Spoiler: 03

Spoiler: 04

there are a few different combinations with out or with lower t1, but most are higher in t1 goods

Spoiler: 05

Spoiler: 06

My guess is that tournaments over all do ask for more t1 goods then t2 or t3 and that is actually adding to the problem. This actually makes since as t1 are worth less as far as the game is concerned, so would ask for more of it then t2 and more of t2 then t3.
I have one of each factory (In constructs) and am gaining on t2 and t3, but my t1 is almost 500k lower and pretty much staying even. I fight the tournaments though, but by taking most of my FS's trades I am seeing that t1 is needed more over all.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

It's spreading. A couple of my neighbors who didn't post cross-tier trades before have started doing it.

They creep in like a Zerg swarm, they do! I feel even more utterly disappointed with my high level neighbors that regularly post many cross-tier trades when the littles begin to copy them.

there are a few different combinations with out or with lower t1, but most are higher in t1 goods

This has been the case for me, too. I believe tourney costs and the large amounts of first tier needed for techs and upgrades in the lower chapters, where I suspect the majority of the overall player base is, are the main contributing factors to the first tier goods deficiency, but that the event buildings sure aren't helping. As far back as I can remember (April of two thousand and fifteen), first tier has always been in the highest demand.