How can the Devs make Enars more worthwhile for more players?

[Sprite1313]

I have Enar's deployed, it generated a rune shard, I was full, and it DID NOT disappear; it was greyed out until I made a rune and cleared the shard bank, then I was able to collect it.

Well, you learn something new every day. Too bad they won't do the same thing for tournament rune shards, LOL.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I am the nameless one that said and I paraphrase here "post a thread on how you would make it better or open the discussion" Just because its been discussed before does not mean its not worth fixing. There are several Wonders that need fixing and now that chap 21 is out we might have a window to be heard, Maybe not but I see no harm in trying.

However, I do not want just bashing of Ideas, I want to see if a real considered approach can be found to improve Enars.

Make the Mana be in "instants" form so it can be used on demand instead of just decaying if it can't be used on the same day. Change the broken rune shards, that can easily be won in Tournament to something more valuable for the space and 2 Tournament penalties that a player would take for having the AW. I can't comment on what that would be because my city is set up to be self sufficient, so there isn't really anything that I am in dire need of. But, If Inno is going to give with one hand and take with the other, then maybe it should just be left alone. [MOD EDIT] removed text

 

[Alram]

I am the nameless one that said and I paraphrase here "post a thread on how you would make it better or open the discussion" Just because its been discussed before does not mean its not worth fixing. There are several Wonders that need fixing and now that chap 21 is out we might have a window to be heard, Maybe not but I see no harm in trying.

However, I do not want just bashing of Ideas, I want to see if a real considered approach can be found to improve Enars.

Enar's doesnt need to be improved. It is an epic mana producer and it gives broken shards which everyone needs to fill rune wheels. People who dont like it have other ways to get broken shards and mana if they choose. Which other Wonders do you think "need" to be fixed?

 

[Pheryll]

However, I do not want just bashing of Ideas, I want to see if a real considered approach can be found to improve Enars.

There are plenty of ideas in the above mentioned thread. The issue with Enar's benefits is that both of them are outdone by later released buildings. Whether it be the Fire Phoenix (which averages 1 broken shard a day) or mana event buildings (which have scaled faster through the chapters than the provinces completed). Enar's Embassy is outperformed by buildings that do not add difficulty to the spire/tournament equation like AW levels do.

Many have looked at other benefits, (one of the simpler ones being raise the broken shard maximum), including those that do not parallel its current productions. So any considered approach can be drastically different from how the developers envision this wonder to work. I understand that you wish the rewards to be balanced, but some appealing ideas include even ditching at least one of its existing benefits for something more useful.

 

[Pheryll]

It is an epic mana producer.

Maze of Dark Matter is a low mana producer, yet in late chapters it outdoes Enar's Embassy without the Scouts' Tavern factored in (assuming 4 maze collections a day).

 

[Dew Spinner]

Enar's doesnt need to be improved. It is an epic mana producer and it gives broken shards which everyone needs to fill rune wheels. People who dont like it have other ways to get broken shards and mana if they choose. Which other Wonders do you think "need" to be fixed?

I'm sorry, but it isn't an epic mana producer if the mana decays before you can use it and the broken rune shards are easily won in Tournament.

 

[Astram]

There are plenty of ideas in the above mentioned thread. The issue with Enar's benefits is that both of them are outdone by later released buildings. Whether it be the Fire Phoenix (which averages 1 broken shard a day) or mana event buildings (which have scaled faster through the chapters than the provinces completed). Enar's Embassy is outperformed by buildings that do not add difficulty to the spire/tournament equation like AW levels do.

Many have looked at other benefits, (one of the simpler ones being raise the broken shard maximum), including those that do not parallel its current productions. So any considered approach can be drastically different from how the developers envision this wonder to work. I understand that you wish the rewards to be balanced, but some appealing ideas include even ditching at least one of its existing benefits for something more useful.

While I don't disagree it was Orphaned from the start but rather than just dismissing it I was hoping for fresh eyes to see if there is anything that can be presented.

the broken rune shards are easily won in Tournament.

Sure if you play in the tourney, not everyone does and not everyone does that well, that is an assumption that does not apply to all players

 

[Dew Spinner]

There are plenty of ideas in the above mentioned thread. The issue with Enar's benefits is that both of them are outdone by later released buildings. Whether it be the Fire Phoenix (which averages 1 broken shard a day) or mana event buildings (which have scaled faster through the chapters than the provinces completed). Enar's Embassy is outperformed by buildings that do not add difficulty to the spire/tournament equation like AW levels do.

Many have looked at other benefits, (one of the simpler ones being raise the broken shard maximum), including those that do not parallel its current productions. So any considered approach can be drastically different from how the developers envision this wonder to work. I understand that you wish the rewards to be balanced, but some appealing ideas include even ditching at least one of its existing benefits for something more useful.

You also, don't get Enars till Woodelves chapter, so it isn't even beneficial to early chapter games.

 

[Iyapo]

While I don't disagree it was Orphaned from the start but rather than just dismissing it I was hoping for fresh eyes to see if there is anything that can be presented.

Mana instants and increasing the broken shards inventory have been suggested, I actually love both those ideas which means the devs are going to laugh themselves to putty over them.

 

[Astram]

Which other Wonders do you think "need" to be fixed?

I think the Mt Hall is one that should be fixed; the Boosted Goods Bonus is pitiful, yes the pop is great and that is its only saving grace, other than cuteness

 

[Alram]

I'm sorry, but it isn't an epic mana producer if the mana decays before you can use it and the broken rune shards are easily won in Tournament.

If you have difficulty with mana decay, you can build a Maze.

 

[Iyapo]

You also, don't get Enars till Woodelves chapter, so it isn't even beneficial to early chapter games.

You know I used to snark at Soggy over this, but Woodelves really is still pretty early game(considering how long it takes to move through later chapters).

 

[Dew Spinner]

While I don't disagree it was Orphaned from the start but rather than just dismissing it I was hoping for fresh eyes to see if there is anything that can be presented.

Sure if you play in the tourney, not everyone does and not everyone does that well, that is an assumption that does not apply to all players

I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of players that don't play tournament at all, not many FS would have them? Is Inno designing AWs for less than 1/10th of 1% of the player base? Even at low level Tournament play you would get as many broken rune shards as Enars gives, without the double penalty.

 

[Astram]

I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of players that don't play tournament at all, not many FS would have them? Is Inno designing AWs for less than 1/10th of 1% of the player base? Even at low level Tournament play you would get as many broken rune shards as Enars gives.

there are 5038 players as of now participating in the tourney, of that 2240 have scores under 1000 with less than a day left, 1241 of them have less than 500 points. What we dont know is how many players are actually playing the game. Also those figures were from Arendyll

 

[Pheryll]

I was hoping for fresh eyes to see if there is anything that can be presented.

One of the simplest modifications. Leave the broken shards there but also include an increase to the cap. Change the Mana collection to be per orc when catering world map or tournament. Below is a table illustration at certain levels.

Enar's Embassy's Level	Mana from catering	Broken rune shard maximum	Broken rune shards (per 7 days)
1	10x orcs catered	12	1
6	20x orcs catered	14	2
11	30x orcs catered	16	3
16	40x orcs catered	18	4
21	50x orcs catered	20	5
26	60x orcs catered	22	6
31	70x orcs catered	24	7

 

[Iyapo]

Oh, cool!!! @Astram I did not know you could just pull that info like that! I am all astonished!

 

[Sprite1313]

One of the simplest modifications. Leave the broken shards there but also include an increase to the cap. Change the Mana collection to be per orc when catering world map or tournament. Below is a table illustration at certain levels.

Enar's Embassy's Level	Mana from catering	Broken rune shard maximum	Broken rune shards (per 7 days)
1	10x orcs catered	12	1
6	20x orcs catered	14	2
11	30x orcs catered	16	3
16	40x orcs catered	18	4
21	50x orcs catered	20	5
26	60x orcs catered	22	6
31	70x orcs catered	24	7

I really like the idea of the scaling rune shard maximum, even without changing the mana. And the orcs catering is an interesting idea. A downside is for those who only fight tournament. Still, as others have pointed out in other posts, there are a lot of wonders that only half benefit either a catering or fighting approach (e.g. Martial Monastery, Dragon Abbey).

 

[Sprite1313]

Even at low level Tournament play you would get as many broken rune shards as Enars gives,

While you can get a lot of broken shards from tournament, this isn't the answer for everyone. As @Astram pointed out, a lot of players don't really do tournament, and even some who do tourney don't go very deep. I wonder how many players use their Ferris Wheels to produce broken rune shards? Also, having another source of broken shards not tied to when you do tournament might be beneficial. And if, as @Flashfyre pointed out, Enar's shards don't just disappear into the Elvenar ether, then it is still a benefit, even if you do collect a lot during the tourney. Many, many, many of my broken shards from tourney don't get collected because my bar is full. If I had a hoard from Enar's, I could upgrade wonders faster, and wouldn't have to try to rebuild various wonders several times to break runes.

And I still maintain that it is one of the prettiest buildings in the game, so there is that argument, too.

 

[Alram]

One of the simplest modifications. Leave the broken shards there but also include an increase to the cap. Change the Mana collection to be per orc when catering world map or tournament. Below is a table illustration at certain levels.

Enar's Embassy's Level	Mana from catering	Broken rune shard maximum	Broken rune shards (per 7 days)
1	10x orcs catered	12	1
6	20x orcs catered	14	2
11	30x orcs catered	16	3
16	40x orcs catered	18	4
21	50x orcs catered	20	5
26	60x orcs catered	22	6
31	70x orcs catered	24	7

The amount of mana from 1 Enar's Scout=10 Abbey Spells=20 Maze collections. Are you suggesting changes to the Abbey and Maze amounts too?

 

[MaidenFair]

I feel like the easiest and most obvious answer is to simply scale the mana production up (I also really like Pheryll’s idea of increasing the broken shard cap!). The main problem is that as the scout times increase along with number of provinces completed, which is the number it uses to compute production, it never actually improves very much in terms of mana/hour, and even if one scouts continuously the output isn’t much better than the culture menu mana producers available in each chapter. If this number were balanced more carefully to match at least the roughly the output of whatever the lower-to-mid level event buildings for a chapter give in mana/hour, it would be much more useful; then assuming scouting is taking place close to constantly, it would at least be a better option than the basic culture buildings available to everyone, and if someone cared to use time boosters on their scouts, even occasionally, it could be a very good producer when needed.

I've had it in my city for a number of months now and it is quite nice to get that boost of mana when I scout. (I am, however, about to get rid of it now that my LoGN is boosting my mana production quite nicely.) Technically, it can be used as mana on demand the same as the Dragon Abbey, you would just burn time boosters instead of spells which is probably why the devs have never felt the need to seriously look at rebalancing it.